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Hello! I just recently joined the website, and I've come up with some lore tidbits for Y'myrha that I thought I'd get some public opinion on before attempting to legitimately implement them.

Firstly, I don't know if there's any clarification on where the Jaguar (Y) tribe is in-game. Because of this, I've assumed that there's probably a few different fragments of the established tribes, that may live in separate areas. With this decision, I've taken the liberty of giving Y'myrha's fragment of the tribe some special customs and practices.

Y'myrha's sect of the tribe is very old fashioned and traditional, where they're vagrants who never settle down in the same location for long. They travel around the La Noscean areas.

Her tribe's most unique custom is the fact that all of their dead are cremated. The reason for this being, there are a select few individuals within her tribe that are chosen at birth to be dancers of a special kind. Although the dancers are primarily female, male ones are not unheard of, simply less common. A child is selected at birth to be this dancer based on one criteria: that their eyes are purple. Purple eyes are simply a hereditary trait that they've come to believe indicates that they've been chosen to be a dancer; it has no actual special powers with it.

To further expound on why all of their dead are cremated, it's because these dancers (called Y'lhat by their tribe) are given the ashes, chosen by the departed's immediate family. Once the ashes are given to the them, a ceremony is set up to take place a few days later, and the Y'lhat gives the departed a farewell dance, because it's believed that the dance gives them one last little joy before they're truly gone.


Otherwise, I was considering giving her some knowledge about white magic. I remember reading a lore tidbit somewhere, involving a conversation with Koji Fox, saying that it was possible for individuals to learn white magic outside of the Padjali ranks. However, it was exceptionally rare for such things to happen, and the practitioner would have to be very secretive about it much like black magic users should be secretive.

I won't lie, I've always wanted to make a character who could use white magicks. I was always afraid to implement this idea because of potential community backlash, especially since it used to be highly frowned upon.

However, that's not to say she would be running around casting Holy or anything like that. Her knowledge wouldn't be expansive—she'd have knowledge of some of the more basic abilities, primarily healing, because of a few different reasons involving her character and her story. I also wouldn't have her go around, carelessly telling anyone and everyone that she knows such things. I value discretion, and want it to be something that's found out about only later on through good character development with others. I thought I'd get community opinion on the idea anyway, just to err to the side of caution.


If you read all of this, thank you kindly! I look forward to the possible feedback from others!
Regarding tribe placement:
To my knowledge, there hasn't been any lore presented to us in game or elsewhere regarding where any tribes are settled (or why they settled there). The two tribes that we interact with in their settlements are the U (Drake) and M (Marmot) tribes. 

It has always been my headcanon that the tribes settle where ever their particular "totem animal" is abundant.

So... for the U tribe, they'd settle near drakes... which, if you look around the desert near enough to them you can find some wild drakes. The M tribe would settle near marmots... which I don't recall seeing any in the Fringes where you run into the tribe, but it makes sense to me that marmots are creatures that are pretty plentiful anywhere.

Again, just headcanon so do with it as you will.


Regarding your personal headcanon for your tribe:
Again, nothing much is stated about tribal traditions and the like for the tribes, as far as I can recall. As such, your headcanon for your tribe seems like it would be fine to me. It's very unique and interesting.

The only issue you may run into is if you end up interacting with another player from the Y tribe that claims La Noscea as their tribal home... that has a completely different idea of how tribal life would've been. Of course, this is a risk with any headcanon, but you get the idea.

Overall, however, go on with your bad self. Thumbsup


Regarding white mage/magic:
As you likely already know, right now the only ones allowed to practice white magic are the padjal who were entrusted by the elementals. And of course special snowflake WoL.

As I recall, Koji did mention "other means" to learn white magic, but said they were "nefarious" in nature. Beyond that, we weren't given any details. Granted, I've not done the 60-70 job quests so perhaps more is explained in there....?

Overall, though, what you do with your character is ultimately up to you. I doubt you'll receive the "backlash" you're expecting should you choose the white magic route. There may be pockets that may avoid RP'ing with you simply because they wish to stick to the "only padjal and WoL know it", but that can be true about any sort of RP. It's just a matter of finding that group of roleplayers that think enough like you to allow that sort of RP into their stories.

They're out there, you just gotta find 'em. Smile

Edit to add:
If your only reasoning to wanting to be a WHM is because they're powerful and you worry that the conjurers are weak... you couldn't be farther from the truth. Conjurers are quite powerful by their own rights. Those taught in Gridania tend to stick to the elements that we are given in the game mechanics... however, conjurers are able to conjure spells from the entire elemental wheel. So fire, lightning(thunder), ice, etc. are all within their grasp, as well.

They are still very skilled healers and also very strong combatants, even if you just stick with the Gridanian teachings.

Again, this isn't me saying don't do your white mage business. Just saying to not let the "upgrade" from the conjurer class to the white mage job fool you into thinking one is inherently weak(er).
(11-14-2017 07:34 AM)C Wrote: [ -> ]Regarding tribe placement:
To my knowledge, there hasn't been any lore presented to us in game or elsewhere regarding where any tribes are settled (or why they settled there). The two tribes that we interact with in their settlements are the U (Drake) and M (Marmot) tribes. 

It has always been my headcanon that the tribes settle where ever their particular "totem animal" is abundant.

So... for the U tribe, they'd settle near drakes... which, if you look around the desert near enough to them you can find some wild drakes. The M tribe would settle near marmots... which I don't recall seeing any in the Fringes where you run into the tribe, but it makes sense to me that marmots are creatures that are pretty plentiful anywhere.

Again, just headcanon so do with it as you will.

That actually makes a lot of sense. I don't recall if there are any jaguars out in La Noscea, although I do know there are tigers. I had never considered looking at it that way before, so thank you for the fresh new perspective on that. I'll take that into consideration! It gives me a new fun possibility to consider involving Y'myrha.


(11-14-2017 07:34 AM)C Wrote: [ -> ]Regarding your personal headcanon for your tribe:
Again, nothing much is stated about tribal traditions and the like for the tribes, as far as I can recall. As such, your headcanon for your tribe seems like it would be fine to me. It's very unique and interesting.

Thank you for the compliment! There was some Final Fantasy X inspiration with her, I'll admit. I was also slightly worried that someone else may have already used this idea.


(11-14-2017 07:34 AM)C Wrote: [ -> ]The only issue you may run into is if you end up interacting with another player from the Y tribe that claims La Noscea as their tribal home... that has a completely different idea of how tribal life would've been. Of course, this is a risk with any headcanon, but you get the idea.

Overall, however, go on with your bad self. Thumbsup

I do, which is why I assumed there were different sects of tribes living in various areas. If I remember correctly, after having done all of the side quests involved with the M tribe out in the Peering Stones, there were actually two segments with two different leaders and Nunhs. I may be remembering that incorrectly of course, but I think that is what was mentioned, so I figured that the same would apply elsewhere. I imagine it would be incredibly difficult to sync up every Seeker player's character to one universal tribe standards/customs.


(11-14-2017 07:34 AM)C Wrote: [ -> ]Regarding white mage/magic:
As you likely already know, right now the only ones allowed to practice white magic are the padjal who were entrusted by the elementals. And of course special snowflake WoL.

As I recall, Koji did mention "other means" to learn white magic, but said they were "nefarious" in nature. Beyond that, we weren't given any details. Granted, I've not done the 60-70 job quests so perhaps more is explained in there....?

Overall, though, what you do with your character is ultimately up to you. I doubt you'll receive the "backlash" you're expecting should you choose the white magic route. There may be pockets that may avoid RP'ing with you simply because they wish to stick to the "only padjal and WoL know it", but that can be true about any sort of RP. It's just a matter of finding that group of roleplayers that think enough like you to allow that sort of RP into their stories.

They're out there, you just gotta find 'em. Smile

I actually haven't done the 60 - 70 WHM quests on my main yet, although I am in the process of leveling it up. I'll definitely scrutinize the quest text there, just to see if there's further elaboration since Koji didn't give us much else to work off of.

Yeah, I do understand that there are people who might not interact with me because it breaks their perceived continuity and immersion, but I'm all right with that. I'm not someone who needs to be liked and roleplayed with by everyone. I'll be content to find people who do agree and are willing to accept it, because that's really all I'm looking for: a small-to-medium group of people who don't mind someone being a little bit "daring," I suppose the word is, with their character concept. That aside, I'm definitely not trying to use it to be one of the aforementioned special snowflakes.


(11-14-2017 07:34 AM)C Wrote: [ -> ]Edit to add:
If your only reasoning to wanting to be a WHM is because they're powerful and you worry that the conjurers are weak... you couldn't be farther from the truth. Conjurers are quite powerful by their own rights. Those taught in Gridania tend to stick to the elements that we are given in the game mechanics... however, conjurers are able to conjure spells from the entire elemental wheel. So fire, lightning(thunder), ice, etc. are all within their grasp, as well.

They are still very skilled healers and also very strong combatants, even if you just stick with the Gridanian teachings.

Oh no, I'm not worried about conjurers being weak. Quite the contrary, I know that they're strong in their own right, but strength is essentially a nonfactor.

My reasons for wanting to use a white magic angle for Y'myrha vary greatly.

  1. Y'myrha is a very motherly figure for a lot of reasons. She's very empathetic, sincere, and kind-hearted, and I'd be lying if I said part of the reason wasn't to fit the bill of "mother hen healer," where she may or may not risk falling into the trope of White Magician Girl.
  2. The above ties into my next reason: it adds an extra layer of depth, in my opinion. Soft-hearted and kind though she may be, it lends credence to the possibility that she understands what she's doing is wrong, and technically illegal, but she's inspired to do it because of her want to try and help others as much as she can. It's cliché, absolutely, but it's still an angle that can be worked with, and has been and will be for some time.
  3. I was a WHM main through much of A Realm Reborn, and although I switched for Heavensward, I'm kind of going back to it here with Stormblood. It's always been one of my favourite jobs among all of the games, and I've always been a little disappointed that I was never able to actually mold my character after them considering the highly forbidden, highly secretive way white magic has been portrayed. Once I saw the blurb from Koji about white magic being accessible outside of the Padjal, I've been thinking long and hard about whether or not to do.
Those are just a few reasons. I'm definitely not concerned about conjurers being weak, or trying to push for acceptance of others using white magic, or trying to stand out to be outlandishly special. It's something I sincerely want to do.

I apologize if that was incredibly long winded. I do that sometimes!
I think something worth fleshing out in your head is why or how your miqo'te became a White Mage, as the title itself is belonging to a very particular class and line of abilities, in addition to how she would balance the duties of being a privileged and powerful spellcaster as well as a ritualistic dancer for her tribe.
In regards to the "other Jaguars" matter, you're pretty on the nose I think - if you play it as your splinter tribe being different from their's, it should be fine. It might even drum up some interesting interactions if you want to roll that your tribe might've heard of theirs in passing or vice versa!

I also agree with Perth's suggestion. I don't know about others, but usually if you can explain the "how" well enough, I'm willing to try rolling with just about anything once. So if you can figure out the "how" of your character's knowledge of White Magic, I think that'd be beneficial.

If you need help for the how, well, a few things that come to mind for me are:
  • A WHM soul crystal found in one of the battlefields of La Noscea. Nym was located there, after all, and was one of the three factions in the War of the Magi. It's not too far of a stretch that they might have either obtained a WHM crystal or one could have been left behind by an Amdaporian combatant.
  • Rather than have it be full-on White Magic™, instead have it be something more unique. You don't have to limit yourself to the classes/jobs in the game. So maybe your tribe's dancers are also healers - the dances commune with the spirits of the land and draw forth healing energies that are like conjury or white magic, but not entirely. Perhaps they wear white to show the purity of their profession, further making the uninformed confuse them with White Mages.

The last idea does actually touch on the 60-70 WHM quests, so I'll leave it in spoilers here rather than just blurt it out. It's a bit lengthy, though, and rambly - as is my wont - so... yeah. Anyway.

Spoiler:
(11-14-2017 08:57 AM)Perth Wrote: [ -> ]I think something worth fleshing out in your head is why or how your miqo'te became a White Mage, as the title itself is belonging to a very particular class and line of abilities, in addition to how she would balance the duties of being a privileged and powerful spellcaster as well as a ritualistic dancer for her tribe.

That's a very good question, and one I'm glad you asked.

The idea as it stands right now is as follows:

For the longest time, Y'myrha was content to simply be what she was in her tribe: a Y'lhat that stayed solely with the tribe and did their duties. A large part of the reason for that was because she didn't know anything outside of tribal life. With her tribe being vagrants, moving from place to place, she'd never experienced or seen Limsa Lominsa, or really interacted with people outside of the other miqo'te in her tribe.

That changed however, when their tribe stumbled across a few people wounded and washed up on shore. At the point they were discovered, they were really beyond saving. Y'myrha insisted that she should be the one to help guide them back to the Lifestream with her tribe's customary dance, to which the tribal leader vehemently denied. Being very old fashioned and traditional, he labeled them as outsiders and said that her duty as a Y'lhat was to their people, not to others.

Suffice it to say, I can imagine you know where it goes from there. Y'myrha didn't take too fondly to that response, and started feeling restless. Being passionate about what she perceives she does for the deceased, she felt that others were entitled to the same treatment that her fellow tribesmen received. Following that, much to the disdain of her tribal leader, she decided to leave in order to spread her art to the rest of Eorzea. Moreover, she wanted to be able to prevent that sort of thing from happening again. If people didn't embrace her art and tradition, maybe she could help prevent others from dying to begin with by mending their hurts.

From there, she inevitably made her way to Gridania. Eccentric though she might have been, she showed an uncanny eagerness and studied in the conjurer's guild to learn conjury itself. From there, it developed into a strong desire to become more intimately familiar with the restorative arts that conjury was capable of performing. One thing leading into the next, and because of her exposure at the conjurer's guild, she learned about the existence white magic but was of course barred from learning it, which twisted her arm into attempting to pursue it in other ways.


(11-14-2017 09:44 AM)Gegenji Wrote: [ -> ]In regards to the "other Jaguars" matter, you're pretty on the nose I think - if you play it as your splinter tribe being different from their's, it should be fine. It might even drum up some interesting interactions if you want to roll that your tribe might've heard of theirs in passing or vice versa!

I also agree with Perth's suggestion. I don't know about others, but usually if you can explain the "how" well enough, I'm willing to try rolling with just about anything once. So if you can figure out the "how" of your character's knowledge of White Magic, I think that'd be beneficial.

If you need help for the how, well, a few things that come to mind for me are:
  • A WHM soul crystal found in one of the battlefields of La Noscea. Nym was located there, after all, and was one of the three factions in the War of the Magi. It's not too far of a stretch that they might have either obtained a WHM crystal or one could have been left behind by an Amdaporian combatant.
  • Rather than have it be full-on White Magic™, instead have it be something more unique. You don't have to limit yourself to the classes/jobs in the game. So maybe your tribe's dancers are also healers - the dances commune with the spirits of the land and draw forth healing energies that are like conjury or white magic, but not entirely. Perhaps they wear white to show the purity of their profession, further making the uninformed confuse them with White Mages.
The last idea does actually touch on the 60-70 WHM quests, so I'll leave it in spoilers here rather than just blurt it out. It's a bit lengthy, though, and rambly - as is my wont - so... yeah. Anyway.

Spoiler:

Those are actually some very interesting suggestions, and I greatly appreciate the feedback you've provided.

I'll admit, I did spoil myself and take a look at what was underneath that spoil tag, and I'll be honest... that's actually an incredibly neat idea. It would necessitate reworking a few things pertaining to her history and her tribe's customs, but it's certainly an idea that's worth looking into some more and potentially fleshing out. Not having done the 60 - 70 WHM quests yet, I'm glad I looked. Don't worry, either. Though it may have spoiled the gist of the story, it doesn't spoil the specifics, so I'm not too terribly concerned about it.

The one thing I'm worried about though, is that being interpreted as an outlandish concept that people might balk at when informed. I feel like there's room for things to be looked at in the infamous "special snowflake" perspective.
(11-14-2017 09:54 AM)Ymyrha Wrote: [ -> ]From there, she inevitably made her way to Gridania. Eccentric though she might have been, she showed an uncanny eagerness and studied in the conjurer's guild to learn conjury itself. From there, it developed into a strong desire to become more intimately familiar with the restorative arts that conjury was capable of performing. One thing leading into the next, and because of her exposure at the conjurer's guild, she learned about the existence white magic but was of course barred from learning it, which twisted her arm into attempting to pursue it in other ways.

Ah, if your character actually comes to Gridania, then delving into an actual Amdaporian ruin for knowledge on White Magic (and/or a soul crystal) is also a pretty feasible option. I had one of my characters effectively break into and loot a ruin to get theirs with a couple adventurers/treasure hunters.

(11-14-2017 09:54 AM)Ymyrha Wrote: [ -> ]The one thing I'm worried about though, is that being interpreted as an outlandish concept that people might balk at when informed. I feel like there's room for things to be looked at in the infamous "special snowflake" perspective.

Wanting to play a White Mage is probably going to get you some "special snowflake" looks regardless, if we're being serious. I would think that it wouldn't be enough that you can't find RP, but there will likely be a few people who don't like the idea because it doesn't mesh with how they want to RP. Hopefully, however, they also won't be the super-vocal sort who will actively complain and/or call you out on it.

Though, there's another angle to this. Who would need to know from the onset? There's nothing keeping Y'myrha from keeping the fact she knows White Magic a secret. No matter how she ended up learning it, it's not something that needs to be stated right out the gate - people could just think she's just really good at Conjury. It's not like they would KNOW unless they've actually seen White Magic used before.

That way, the only people who would know would be folks you've decided you want them to know. To the people who might balk at her being a WHM, she's just a simple dancer and conjurer. For those that don't seem to mind it, she can show that she's more than that.
(11-14-2017 10:16 AM)Gegenji Wrote: [ -> ]Wanting to play a White Mage is probably going to get you some "special snowflake" looks regardless, if we're being serious. I would think that it wouldn't be enough that you can't find RP, but there will likely be a few people who don't like the idea because it doesn't mesh with how they want to RP. Hopefully, however, they also won't be the super-vocal sort who will actively complain and/or call you out on it.

Though, there's another angle to this. Who would need to know from the onset? There's nothing keeping Y'myrha from keeping the fact she knows White Magic a secret. No matter how she ended up learning it, it's not something that needs to be stated right out the gate - people could just think she's just really good at Conjury. It's not like they would KNOW unless they've actually seen White Magic used before.

That way, the only people who would know would be folks you've decided you want them to know. To the people who might balk at her being a WHM, she's just a simple dancer and conjurer. For those that don't seem to mind it, she can show that she's more than that.

That's actually a very fair assessment. Attempting to do something like this, while avoiding the stigma that comes with it, is probably an unrealistic goal.

Certainly, no one would immediately know. I mentioned before in my original post, it's the kind of thing I'd only want people to find out about through interactions and development. She would have the wherewithal to keep tight-lipped about it, knowing that what she knows isn't exactly "legal" or openly accepted for a wide variety of reasons.

That said... I think I may go with that idea of yours, if you don't mind me using it. It's probably one of the most unique ones I've heard, and actually expounds upon things I otherwise hadn't yet considered. I know it's based largely on the 60 - 70 WHM quests, but it's an idea I feel I could run with, and probably give some more traction to her knowing white magic to begin with. It wouldn't take too terribly much reworking, but if you're open for discussions, I'd be more than willing to start a PM conversation.

Not to mention I actually need to work on setting up a proper profile for her on the Wiki.
(11-14-2017 10:38 AM)Ymyrha Wrote: [ -> ]That said... I think I may go with that idea of yours, if you don't mind me using it. It's probably one of the most unique ones I've heard, and actually expounds upon things I otherwise hadn't yet considered. I know it's based largely on the 60 - 70 WHM quests, but it's an idea I feel I could run with, and probably give some more traction to her knowing white magic to begin with. It wouldn't take too terribly much reworking, but if you're open for discussions, I'd be more than willing to start a PM conversation.

I don't mind you using it, I threw it out as a potential idea to use after all. Feel free to take it, run with it, and make it your own. And if I can help further, feel free to ask here, shoot me a PM, or snag me in the RPC chatroom if I'm around. Thumbsup
A few things to keep in mind with being an IC WHM. As stated by others even without the confirmation there are definitely ways to learn White Magic outside of being a Padjal. Breaking into the Amdapori ruins and finding one there is an option, it should also be noted that survivors from Amdapor settled in both Gyr Abania and Sharlayan both. There is of course always the possibility that any soul stones and knowledge that they brought with them were passed down, especially in Sharlayan. That said in addition to keeping in mind that White Magic is forbidden to anyone who is not a part of the Padjali inner circle, you should keep in mind that practicing White Magic of any form in the Shroud is most likely extremely dangerous as well. So keep that in mind with your back story. It is after all the domain of the very beings that sought to wipe both Black and White magic out of existence with a flood, there is no doubt that they wouldn't take action against anyone that isn't a Padjal or the WoL using White Magic within the Shroud.

Otherwise I like the tribe idea, it is unique and since we have almost no lore at all about the Y tribe it is easily believable that there are splinter sects. It can also make for interesting interactions when running into characters of the Y tribe that are from other places in Eorzea. I personally rp with one whose portion of the tribe is from Thanalan and could see some interesting discussions and rp come from the differences between the two.

As a final note. You do you. Go with whatever makes you happy. Balmung is still a large community and there are groups pretty much for everyone here. IMO so long as you have a thoughtful explanation played out for why, and it brings more to your character other than being a check mark, then you shouldn't have much to worry about.
(11-14-2017 01:11 PM)Silmanos Wrote: [ -> ]A few things to keep in mind with being an IC WHM. As stated by others even without the confirmation there are definitely ways to learn White Magic outside of being a Padjal. Breaking into the Amdapori ruins and finding one there is an option, it should also be noted that survivors from Amdapor settled in both Gyr Abania and Sharlayan both. There is of course always the possibility that any soul stones and knowledge that they brought with them were passed down, especially in Sharlayan. That said in addition to keeping in mind that White Magic is forbidden to anyone who is not a part of the Padjali inner circle, you should keep in mind that practicing White Magic of any form in the Shroud is most likely extremely dangerous as well. So keep that in mind with your back story. It is after all the domain of the very beings that sought to wipe both Black and White magic out of existence with a flood, there is no doubt that they wouldn't take action against anyone that isn't a Padjal or the WoL using White Magic within the Shroud.

Oh yes, I do know that if she were to be a practitioner in the Shroud itself, it would probably be even more dangerous than practicing it elsewhere. She was probably a practitioner in other areas, most likely La Noscea or Thanalan, if possible, since the cooler climates of Gridania wouldn't make for many happy Seekers anyway.

(11-14-2017 01:11 PM)Silmanos Wrote: [ -> ]Otherwise I like the tribe idea, it is unique and since we have almost no lore at all about the Y tribe it is easily believable that there are splinter sects. It can also make for interesting interactions when running into characters of the Y tribe that are from other places in Eorzea. I personally rp with one whose portion of the tribe is from Thanalan and could see some interesting discussions and rp come from the differences between the two.

Absolutely! I think it could be a ton of fun as well, so if you'd ever like to set up potential interactions for the future, please feel free to ask me! I wouldn't at all mind getting some potential contacts set up for Y'myrha to have in the future.


(11-14-2017 01:11 PM)Silmanos Wrote: [ -> ]As a final note. You do you. Go with whatever makes you happy. Balmung is still a large community and there are groups pretty much for everyone here. IMO so long as you have a thoughtful explanation played out for why, and it brings more to your character other than being a check mark, then you shouldn't have much to worry about.

Thank you for the kind words. At this point I'm relatively sold on the idea, come what may from people I interact with. It's something I've put a lot of time and thought into, so I'm hard pressed to back out of it now.
I read the first few posts and then just scanned through the rest so I may be repeating myself but I made my own splinter tribe of the Jaguars called the Yzh Tribe. Instead of valuing strength or agility, the Yzh tribe valued magic. Nuhns were determined via magic duel and they bred for magic/aether potency. So you could totally make up your own version of the Jaguars. Some people make up their own tribe completely and not base it on any of the current tribes in lore. 

As for white magic, I would do what you want. If your character has a genuinely good reason to be one that would fit with her backstory, then do it. Also like someone said earlier, conjurers are pretty bad ass.
(11-14-2017 03:00 PM)SapphireSkylines Wrote: [ -> ]I read the first few posts and then just scanned through the rest so I may be repeating myself but I made my own splinter tribe of the Jaguars called the Yzh Tribe. Instead of valuing strength or agility, the Yzh tribe valued magic. Nuhns were determined via magic duel and they bred for magic/aether potency. So you could totally make up your own version of the Jaguars. Some people make up their own tribe completely and not base it on any of the current tribes in lore. 

As for white magic, I would do what you want. If your character has a genuinely good reason to be one that would fit with her backstory, then do it. Also like someone said earlier, conjurers are pretty bad ass.

Repeating or not, which you honestly didn't do much of, I appreciate your feedback all the same!

That's actually a pretty nifty take on some unique customs for your tribe! Mine tend to revolve mostly around things others may find quirky or exotic, as evidenced by the idea for Y'myrha's tribe's dancing. I don't think I've ever used anything quite like the magic angle before, but with your and Gegenji's feedback, this may be the first time I do it! I do plan on incorporating white magic into her story, through the means Gegenji mentioned earlier. I'll simply have to poke around to find the people who wouldn't mind that sort of thing, and hope that the free company I plan on applying to doesn't mind either!
(11-14-2017 08:09 AM)Ymyrha Wrote: [ -> ]
(11-14-2017 07:34 AM)C Wrote: [ -> ]Regarding white mage/magic:
As you likely already know, right now the only ones allowed to practice white magic are the padjal who were entrusted by the elementals. And of course special snowflake WoL.

As I recall, Koji did mention "other means" to learn white magic, but said they were "nefarious" in nature. Beyond that, we weren't given any details. Granted, I've not done the 60-70 job quests so perhaps more is explained in there....?

I actually haven't done the 60 - 70 WHM quests on my main yet, although I am in the process of leveling it up. I'll definitely scrutinize the quest text there, just to see if there's further elaboration since Koji didn't give us much else to work off of.

Alas, no. More is not explained there. White Magic is referred to, yes, but what is actually going on in the questline has nothing to do with White Magic. You just happen to be more trusted because you are a "White Mage of standing."

Spoiler:

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  • Y'myrha is a very motherly figure for a lot of reasons. She's very empathetic, sincere, and kind-hearted, and I'd be lying if I said part of the reason wasn't to fit the bill of "mother hen healer," where she may or may not risk falling into the trope of White Magician Girl.

The thing is, there's no reason you would need to specifically be a White Mage for your character to be motherly. In fact, the only thing in that trope link that fits White Mage specifically is that the character in question usually wields White Magic. Literally everything else can be accomplished with a Conjurer. In fact, the bulk of your healing abilities don't come from White Mage at all - they're Conjurer abilities. There's no reason for us to even believe that White Mages are particularly motherly or kind beyond the few White Mage NPCs we encounter. One of the reasons why the Elementals hid White Magic in the first place is that the Amdapori abused the shit out of it, and in the process, very nearly destroyed the world. For all we know, traditional White Mages during the time of Amdapor were in it for power or the accolades of others, not out of kindness.

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  • The above ties into my next reason: it adds an extra layer of depth, in my opinion. Soft-hearted and kind though she may be, it lends credence to the possibility that she understands what she's doing is wrong, and technically illegal, but she's inspired to do it because of her want to try and help others as much as she can. It's cliché, absolutely, but it's still an angle that can be worked with, and has been and will be for some time.

  • How does White Magic add a "layer of depth" to your character? Just saying, "Well, she knows it's wrong but she does it anyway" is reasoning, but it's not depth. How does White Magic make it more likely that she would understand what she's doing is wrong any more than, say, attempting a particularly difficult form of Conjury that could, say, damage the land?

    Another thing to point out is that White Magic isn't actually illegal. See, for it to be illegal, people would have to actually know about it. Can't make a law about something that supposedly doesn't exist. Can't be illegal if there's no law outlawing it. So it's not illegal. Forbidden? Again, can't forbid something that supposedly doesn't exist anymore.

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  • I was a WHM main through much of A Realm Reborn, and although I switched for Heavensward, I'm kind of going back to it here with Stormblood. It's always been one of my favourite jobs among all of the games, and I've always been a little disappointed that I was never able to actually mold my character after them considering the highly forbidden, highly secretive way white magic has been portrayed. Once I saw the blurb from Koji about white magic being accessible outside of the Padjal, I've been thinking long and hard about whether or not to do.

  • So, your reason is, "I want to be a White Mage because I've always wanted to be a White Mage and I hate that it's uber restrictive."

    That's totally valid. I have been there, and I completely agree - it's ripe bullshit how they've portrayed it in the game. That's really all the reasoning you need - don't stretch for other things, because those other things are stretches. "I want to do it" is literally the only justification you need.

    The hard part is making how you choose to accomplish this believable.

    (11-14-2017 09:44 AM)Gegenji Wrote: [ -> ]
    • A WHM soul crystal found in one of the battlefields of La Noscea. Nym was located there, after all, and was one of the three factions in the War of the Magi. It's not too far of a stretch that they might have either obtained a WHM crystal or one could have been left behind by an Amdaporian combatant.

    As far as I know (someone correct me if I'm wrong here), Amdapor and Nym were never directly at war, nor did they fight together in La Noscea itself.

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    With all of this said, OP - it's really up to you. Find a story that makes sense to you. I have a really hard time believing that the Xenophobic Gridanians would open up enough to even tell a foreign-born Sun Seeker about White Magic, but who knows? If you can come up with a story that works for you, go for it. All that matters is whether you will fit in with your particular group.

    Edited to Add: In talking with a friend, an old theory popped up - there's a good chance there's some pocket of White Mages hidden in some crazy remote part of Gyr Abania who descended from 6th Umbral Era survivors. It's likely that their techniques would, however, be wholly unconnected with the current Padjal-taught form of White Magic. Still, they might be a hell of a lot more open to teaching a foreign-born Sun Seeker Miqo'te than the admittedly xenophobic Gridanians.
    Liadan, let me open this post by thanking you. I appreciate thorough, constructive criticism very much.

    (11-14-2017 10:52 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote: [ -> ]The thing is, there's no reason you would need to specifically be a White Mage for your character to be motherly. In fact, the only thing in that trope link that fits White Mage specifically is that the character in question usually wields White Magic. Literally everything else can be accomplished with a Conjurer. In fact, the bulk of your healing abilities don't come from White Mage at all - they're Conjurer abilities. There's no reason for us to even believe that White Mages are particularly motherly or kind beyond the few White Mage NPCs we encounter. One of the reasons why the Elementals hid White Magic in the first place is that the Amdapori abused the shit out of it, and in the process, very nearly destroyed the world. For all we know, traditional White Mages during the time of Amdapor were in it for power or the accolades of others, not out of kindness.

    Yes, I do understand that it's not a necessity for a motherly person to be a white mage. It's not that I believe the two things are synonymous with one another. It's more of a case that, likely from my own personal preference for specific archetypes, that I believe being a white mage may make her appear to be more motherly if portrayed in a particular light. Naturally that sort of thing isn't a requirement by any means, because you may have a motherly character with no ties to any sort of magical or martial prowess, but it can serve to magnify it if done in certain ways.

    Of course, as you go on to mention later on in that blurb, we don't realistically know how white mages from the Sixth Umbral Calamity may have acted or behaved. It's a long shot to be certain, and given that the War of the Magi and the Sixth Umbral Calamity was brought about by them willingly engaging in combat with both Mhach and Nym, it's not a far stretch to assume they were possibly less than savoury individuals.

    Is it a weak justification? Sure, I can admit that it's feeble at best, but I'd be lying if I said it wasn't part of my train of thought.


    (11-14-2017 10:52 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote: [ -> ]How does White Magic add a "layer of depth" to your character? Just saying, "Well, she knows it's wrong but she does it anyway" is reasoning, but it's not depth. How does White Magic make it more likely that she would understand what she's doing is wrong any more than, say, attempting a particularly difficult form of Conjury that could, say, damage the land?

    Another thing to point out is that White Magic isn't actually illegal. See, for it to be illegal, people would have to actually know about it. Can't make a law about something that supposedly doesn't exist. Can't be illegal if there's no law outlawing it. So it's not illegal. Forbidden? Again, can't forbid something that supposedly doesn't exist anymore.

    Fair points across the board. "Depth" was a poor choice of word when I wrote that message, and though it may seem like an attempt at an excuse, I'll say that it was a faux pas likely caused from not having slept for over 24 hours now. "Reasoning" is definitely a more suitable word. That's something I would have to go back and ponder more on, so I appreciate that food for thought.


    (11-14-2017 10:52 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote: [ -> ]So, your reason is, "I want to be a White Mage because I've always wanted to be a White Mage and I hate that it's uber restrictive."

    That's totally valid. I have been there, and I completely agree - it's ripe bullshit how they've portrayed it in the game. That's really all the reasoning you need - don't stretch for other things, because those other things are stretches. "I want to do it" is literally the only justification you need.

    The hard part is making how you choose to accomplish this believable.

    I absolutely want to do it, yes. I was under the misconception that there needed to be more of a reason to it than that, because responding to someone asking you why you did it with "because I wanted to" felt like a relatively weak justification, which is why I attempted to compile the list you see featured above. I felt as though "just because" wasn't feasible in and of itself, given that there's a not-insignificant chunk of people who want to know the gritty details of it all.

    Believable is what I want, certainly. Believe me, I've been mulling over the possible ways to try and implement it for quite a few days. I get some ideas, then very few of them end up sticking, and I'm right back at the drawing board.


    (11-14-2017 10:52 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote: [ -> ]Edited to Add: In talking with a friend, an old theory popped up - there's a good chance there's some pocket of White Mages hidden in some crazy remote part of Gyr Abania who descended from 6th Umbral Era survivors. It's likely that their techniques would, however, be wholly unconnected with the current Padjal-taught form of White Magic. Still, they might be a hell of a lot more open to teaching a foreign-born Sun Seeker Miqo'te than the admittedly xenophobic Gridanians.

    Another fun possibility I hadn't considered. With as much as I initially fawned over RDM, and even went on to level it to 70, I feel sheepish for not having considered that there's a group of white and/or black mages hiding somewhere out there.

    Again, thank you very much for the insightful feedback and criticism. If you've any more, I'm always receptive of it.
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