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+--- Thread: Stupid Question: Vana'diel (/showthread.php?tid=14256)
RE: Stupid Question: Vana'diel - allgivenover - 11-11-2015
Although plausible, the more important question is... why?
What does being from Vana'diel add to your roleplay other that a difference that can't really be used by anyone else? Perhaps it's an interesting story to tell, but after the telling what can you do with it?
In fact being from Vana'diel only really limits you.
I don't see a reason for it other than wanting a special origin.
RE: Stupid Question: Vana'diel - Swashbuckler - 11-11-2015
(11-11-2015, 01:25 PM)allgivenover Wrote: Although plausible, the more important question is... why?This, very much.
What does being from Vana'diel add to your roleplay other that a difference that can't really be used by anyone else? Perhaps it's an interesting story to tell, but after the telling what can you do with it?
In fact being from Vana'diel only really limits you.
I don't see a reason for it other than wanting a special origin.
I can understand wanting that sort of "flavour" to your character but other than that, I honestly don't think it'll affect your roleplay much.
Besides, I think it's fun taking a pre-existing character you had in one universe, and re-purposing them to fit in the universe you want to roleplay in. (Think Marvel mainstream 616 vs. Marvel ultimates 1610.)
RE: Stupid Question: Vana'diel - Rufus Wightman - 11-11-2015
I mean, I wouldn't personally do something like bringing a character over from another world/universe or what have you. Sure, I like it in other forms of media like anime, for example. I dunno why, but that's always fascinated me. But when it comes to RP? I tend to find it's just better to keep things in-universe, even if they don't always make sense. It's part of the adventure, right?
It just sort of sticks in my craw when a character is blatantly just a copy from another game. Like I think I saw earlier in this thread, or in one of the other threads that was linked, it feels like poor storytelling to make a character seem interesting. In my early days of RP, I remember seeing someone who was RPing a hyur that was actually an asura from GW2, that had somehow found their way to Eorzea, and my first thought was, "Why not just go RP on GW2 instead?". Feels kinda disrespectful to the people that've taken the time and effort to build the world to the point it's gotten to, I guess?
And at the end of the day, does anyone ever take the crossover events as serious, canonical happens in the world? Especially with the fact that some events have found themselves repeated, it feels like it's more accurate to say it was just a fever dream of the WoL during the breaks from solving mysteries or saving the world - you know, casual WoL stuff.
RE: Stupid Question: Vana'diel - Melphina - 11-11-2015
Actually in Abyssea you could hop to another parallel dimension through Atomos.
EDIT: But I digress, it was a bad idea to begin with, so I'm going to figure out how to get something going.
RE: Stupid Question: Vana'diel - Ashe - 11-12-2015
Honestly, saying something exists from some other FF game in FFXIV so it must exist is kind of really....I donno. All FF games do this.
There is an entire wiki that lists all of the FF game references in FFXIV.
Some of the obvious ones:
FF3 allusions in the Allagan backstory. Is FF3 the prequel to this game? No >>
Matoya and Matoya's cave is from FF1. Did she and her cave travel to Eorzea? Probably not.
Elidibus is a summoner in Tactics and he has the summon Zodiark. Did he suddenly decide to become an Ascian and appear in Eorzea and use his summon to destroy Hydaelyn? Prolly not.
Golden Saucer in VII
Magiteck from VI
Cloud of Darkness from 3 (first note)
....
The tactics gear from the 60 dungeons...
Everything in this link:Â http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Final_Fantasy_XIV/Allusions
All FF games do this too. Not just FFXIVÂ
You can take it for what it is...but in my personal opinion, it'd be best to just remake the character FOR Eorzea...
RE: Stupid Question: Vana'diel - mongi291 - 11-12-2015
(11-12-2015, 05:04 AM)Ashe Wrote: Honestly, saying something exists from some other FF game in FFXIV so it must exist is kind of really....I donno. All FF games do this.Actually, Cloud of Darkness might be the same as FF3, just like Gilgamesh which is always the same in all games. But for the rest, they're probably different things.
There is an entire wiki that lists all of the FF game references in FFXIV.
Some of the obvious ones:
FF3 allusions in the Allagan backstory. Is FF3 the prequel to this game? No >>
Matoya and Matoya's cave is from FF1. Did she and her cave travel to Eorzea? Probably not.
Elidibus is a summoner in Tactics and he has the summon Zodiark. Did he suddenly decide to become an Ascian and appear in Eorzea and use his summon to destroy Hydaelyn? Prolly not.
Golden Saucer in VII
Magiteck from VI
Cloud of Darkness from 3 (first note)
....
The tactics gear from the 60 dungeons...
Everything in this link:Â http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Final_Fantasy_XIV/Allusions
All FF games do this too. Not just FFXIVÂ
You can take it for what it is...but in my personal opinion, it'd be best to just remake the character FOR Eorzea...
RE: Stupid Question: Vana'diel - Ashe - 11-12-2015
(11-12-2015, 05:09 AM)mongi291 Wrote:My point is that there are plenty of things in FFXIV that are from other FF games but it doesn't mean that people from those games are just gonna randomly be coming in to Eorzea like Hey sup!(11-12-2015, 05:04 AM)Ashe Wrote: Honestly, saying something exists from some other FF game in FFXIV so it must exist is kind of really....I donno. All FF games do this.Actually, Cloud of Darkness might be the same as FF3, just like Gilgamesh which is always the same in all games. But for the rest, they're probably different things.
There is an entire wiki that lists all of the FF game references in FFXIV.
Some of the obvious ones:
FF3 allusions in the Allagan backstory. Is FF3 the prequel to this game? No >>
Matoya and Matoya's cave is from FF1. Did she and her cave travel to Eorzea? Probably not.
Elidibus is a summoner in Tactics and he has the summon Zodiark. Did he suddenly decide to become an Ascian and appear in Eorzea and use his summon to destroy Hydaelyn? Prolly not.
Golden Saucer in VII
Magiteck from VI
Cloud of Darkness from 3 (first note)
....
The tactics gear from the 60 dungeons...
Everything in this link:Â http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Final_Fantasy_XIV/Allusions
All FF games do this too. Not just FFXIVÂ
You can take it for what it is...but in my personal opinion, it'd be best to just remake the character FOR Eorzea...
I did not play FFXI 'cause no PC and I didn't really grow up with internet anyways...but regardless of the story I think it's highly unlikely that they would end up in Eorzea.
Aaaah quick edit:
FF3 and 4 and tactics seem to have more in common with Eorzea stuff than FFXI outside of the face. A lot of the MMO core lore (time/spacial keeping, general race look--which was standard for more than just FFXI...a lot of game shave human-like, elf-like, animal-like, little people-like races--and what not)may have been from FFXI, but lore wise, it's not really connected. A lot of character models seem to be the same and some names (like xys is an upscaled version of abc)...but there's not much story impact from what I'm reading.
RE: Stupid Question: Vana'diel - Paradox - 11-12-2015
(11-11-2015, 01:25 PM)allgivenover Wrote: Although plausible, the more important question is... why?It actually has little to do with a 'special origin' in the case of most people and the fact that some become very attached to their creations. As a writer who has roleplayed and written solo stories for some twenty three years, there are certain characters who have long histories that I move from world to world whenever possible because those characters have lives I've designed, and shared with others throughout many lifetimes. While it is possible to just make someone new to the setting with the same name based on them, it unfortunately loses a lot of the love and work that went into one's creation. The unfortunate thing is, a lot of people have your way of thinking that it's just 'something that can't be used by anyone else' or just a 'special origin story'.
What does being from Vana'diel add to your roleplay other that a difference that can't really be used by anyone else? Perhaps it's an interesting story to tell, but after the telling what can you do with it?
In fact being from Vana'diel only really limits you.
I don't see a reason for it other than wanting a special origin.
The idea that everything different from what the lore bible thumpers is a 'special snowflake' is something I've seen that's very prevalent among the FFXIV mainstream roleplay crowd, and I see a lot of creativity and potential sacrificed because of it, with people forgetting roleplay is about fun and not living up to people's expectations of what they should be playing. But that's off topic, and I apologize.
The thing is, if I'd hypothetically played FFXI for x amount of years and become very close to my roleplay character, but say..a lot of my friends had left, or the server RP community had faded, but I didn't feel I was done with my character's story, and that they had more to do, and found out 'hey, these worlds can interconnect', I'd love to do such a thing, because it means my character could grow in a whole new way. Perhaps as a stranger in a strange land, trying to adapt. Perhaps they would think they'd died and were dreaming, only to find out later that they were wrong. There's so much potential there, and unfortunately too many people only see 'well you just want to be special, why not just roll here and settle like everyone else'?
Not everyone is everyone else, and their character's story may not be done yet in their view, regardless of whether the environment of their original game allows them to finish it. Roleplay is about fun, diversity, and creativity, not 'everyone the same origin story as everyone else'. I'm with the other gentleman (or lady?) a few posts above. If you want to do it, do it, because there is potential for it to happen, and it's not up to us to judge that they 'just want to be special'. It may just be that they love their character, and I'm just fine with that. But it isn't always just because someone want to be 'special' or 'different'. That's a broad brush to paint with, and it's not a good idea to put one's own standards or perceptions on the actions of others. Asking is more polite, and may even make you new friends.
RE: Stupid Question: Vana'diel - Vyce - 11-12-2015
(11-12-2015, 05:17 AM)Ashe Wrote:(11-12-2015, 05:09 AM)mongi291 Wrote:My point is that there are plenty of things in FFXIV that are from other FF games but it doesn't mean that people from those games are just gonna randomly be coming in to Eorzea like Hey sup!(11-12-2015, 05:04 AM)Ashe Wrote: Honestly, saying something exists from some other FF game in FFXIV so it must exist is kind of really....I donno. All FF games do this.Actually, Cloud of Darkness might be the same as FF3, just like Gilgamesh which is always the same in all games. But for the rest, they're probably different things.
There is an entire wiki that lists all of the FF game references in FFXIV.
Some of the obvious ones:
FF3 allusions in the Allagan backstory. Is FF3 the prequel to this game? No >>
Matoya and Matoya's cave is from FF1. Did she and her cave travel to Eorzea? Probably not.
Elidibus is a summoner in Tactics and he has the summon Zodiark. Did he suddenly decide to become an Ascian and appear in Eorzea and use his summon to destroy Hydaelyn? Prolly not.
Golden Saucer in VII
Magiteck from VI
Cloud of Darkness from 3 (first note)
....
The tactics gear from the 60 dungeons...
Everything in this link:Â http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Final_Fantasy_XIV/Allusions
All FF games do this too. Not just FFXIVÂ
You can take it for what it is...but in my personal opinion, it'd be best to just remake the character FOR Eorzea...
I did not play FFXI 'cause no PC and I didn't really grow up with internet anyways...but regardless of the story I think it's highly unlikely that they would end up in Eorzea.
Aaaah quick edit:
FF3 and 4 and tactics seem to have more in common with Eorzea stuff than FFXI outside of the face. A lot of the MMO core lore (time/spacial keeping, general race look--which was standard for more than just FFXI...a lot of game shave human-like, elf-like, animal-like, little people-like races--and what not)may have been from FFXI, but lore wise, it's not really connected. A lot of character models seem to be the same and some names (like xys is an upscaled version of abc)...but there's not much story impact from what I'm reading.
The past, present, and future of the world of Hydaelyn may not be connected to the world of FFXI, but canonically they exist in the same network of universes that Shantotto is canonically able to traverse at will, as well as move others with her. Shantotto is a Black Mage but also pretty much the equivalent of a dimensional witch.
XI and XIV do not exist in the same universe, but Square Enix subscribes to the idea that all worlds ever created exist in a blob of universes. The IRL world, the Disney worlds, Narnia, the Final Fantasy worlds, the World of Warcraft worlds...basically these universes come into existence and become a part of the grand network of universes.
But some universes are harder to move between than others. The Warcraft universe and the FF14 universe are so entirely different that moving between them is near impossible. FF14 and FF11, and all the other FF worlds have so many fundamental similarities that someone like Shantotto can freely move between them.
Yes, technically Enix recycles ideas and iconizes them, but the very fact that the same deities and eidolons exist throughout the universes is a very sturdy bridge that allows dimensional travel.
If you want to get down to it, every videogame ever made (with the exception of direct sequels and expansions i.e Infamous/Infamous: Second Son) added a new universe to the web of universes, because someone wrote that world and its past, present, and future into existence.
Even more meta:
(insert stoner meme)
What if we are all ambient NPCs in a video game that a company in a world similar to ours made, and all the Hollywood stars are the RPers wish-fulfillment Mary-Sues?
RE: Stupid Question: Vana'diel - Korinth - 11-16-2015
(11-12-2015, 09:42 AM)Vyce Wrote: The past, present, and future of the world of Hydaelyn may not be connected to the world of FFXI, but canonically they exist in the same network of universes that Shantotto is canonically able to traverse at will, as well as move others with her. Shantotto is a Black Mage but also pretty much the equivalent of a dimensional witch.
XI and XIV do not exist in the same universe, but Square Enix subscribes to the idea that all worlds ever created exist in a blob of universes. The IRL world, the Disney worlds, Narnia, the Final Fantasy worlds, the World of Warcraft worlds...basically these universes come into existence and become a part of the grand network of universes.
But some universes are harder to move between than others. The Warcraft universe and the FF14 universe are so entirely different that moving between them is near impossible. FF14 and FF11, and all the other FF worlds have so many fundamental similarities that someone like Shantotto can freely move between them.
Yes, technically Enix recycles ideas and iconizes them, but the very fact that the same deities and eidolons exist throughout the universes is a very sturdy bridge that allows dimensional travel.
If you want to get down to it, every videogame ever made (with the exception of direct sequels and expansions i.e Infamous/Infamous: Second Son) added a new universe to the web of universes, because someone wrote that world and its past, present, and future into existence.
Even more meta:
(insert stoner meme)
What if we are all ambient NPCs in a video game that a company in a world similar to ours made, and all the Hollywood stars are the RPers wish-fulfillment Mary-Sues?
..That last point makes entirely too much sense. I think you've just caused an existential crisis for me.
But yes, from the way Enix describes their universe, the ease of travelling between Worlds in related to similarity. I've actually RP'd with someone who did this very, very well. So well in fact they actually just thought they'd traveled to a new, undiscovered part of their -own- world (FFXII, for the curious.) The discovery of the traveling itself was a big RP plot, in fact. One thing to remember is -you- don't have to be the one to transport your character. It can be some higher power, for purposes either benign or malevolent. Perhaps you are in some powerful creature or mages way, but they're limited in how to dispose of you. Perhaps your deity favors you and saved your life by tossing you through a dimensional tear. Perhaps a trickster-esque entity was just bored and experimented with dimensional portals and you tripped through one. Or perhaps a war or some such tore open a whole in reality that just happened to open up in Eorzea. The traveling itself can be a side-effect of other events.
There are a lot of ways to do it. The Void supposedly exists in all FF worlds, in some form or another.
Be creative, and don't let 'expectations of how RP needs to be' ruin your fun. But on the same token, doing RP with an 'Outsider' character also has a higher difficulty setting to be done well.
RE: Stupid Question: Vana'diel - Momo - 11-16-2015
You're all forgetting that the travel between worlds we have so far, has been the travel of important characters, which make an impact in the world in which they eventually appear. Â Now, if you were say comfortable calling yourself the next Lightning or Shantotto? Â Go aheadÂ
 (because that would go over about as well as the proposed idea, which is to say: "Like a lead balloon.")We do not know what method Shantotto used to travel into this world (other than a spell which appears to be like Return or Teleport, using the travel of the body much like we do in FFXIV), and we have no proof that Atomos do in fact have a link here, as all the ones we have here linked only to the Void, which has specific purpose and form in our world.  Not to mention, Atomos in FFXIV, were all closed and dead by the end of the 4th expansion, making them an excuse for travel unfeasible.  Lightning uses a decidedly similar form of inter-dimensional travel, with her signature powers adding in the feather affect.
What is clear still, is that those who may travel between world in the FF universe, Shantotto, Lightning, Iroha and so forth...they aren't just normal people walking around, suddenly thrown into our world, they are important, powerful, world-changing characters (in their own world, and at times in ours), and the use of this method of travel and character creation in the world of FFXIV can be viewed as no less than pompous or in ignorance of the RP community as a whole. Â Characters, their likes, dislikes, origins, everyday play style, these can all change, but that doesn't give one the right to deviate so far away from the community norm that one may choose to alter the realm using a character not of FFXIV. Â You will not find many supporters should you be a world traveler, and let me be the first here to admit, that at times, RP in this community is already tough enough.
To finish, I am a supporter of White Mage characters and Black Mage characters, I think done well, nearly all ideas can be done in our community to some amount of support from good creative people, but not this idea. Â To most, this idea will automatically signal a lack of interest in learning lore, in blending in with the RP community, not necessarily to the point of total disinterest in your character, but in the way that this community as any RP community, only works if we all have a general level of belief. Â That alone, is enough to turn any RPer away, because, as much as I loved XI when I played (or any of the FF games), I love FFXIV, I love the lore, I love the characters, the great story that we have in the game, but also of a realm we hoped to love, then pulled out of the flames and given new life by Yoshi-P, and that is what we hope translates to others thinking of joining with us to tell our stories. Â Best idea I can offer you to soothe your desire to continue your old character: let the transform creatively into a new character, let go of their world in your mind, and capture their creative essence to then place into another character, have faith in your ability to create a new interesting character in the ever-growing world of FFXIV, and have faith that character can survive and carry on the legacy of your XI love.
RE: Stupid Question: Vana'diel - Yssen - 11-16-2015
Can it be done? Yup. Absolutely. It is stated in several Ultimania for various FF's that Atomos is the the same Atomos in every incarnation, and pretty much exists as a giant weird sentient gateway. Further, FFXIV itself has poked on to fact that "The Void, is the Void, is the Void" across the FF cosmology. Travel methodology and details are all just aspects of story in the end.
Should it be done? Sure. Go for it, but examine why you are doing it and how it would come up in a realistic sense. The current event quest is a pretty good example. The Shantoto event from a while ago, also good. The main question you should always ask yourself with weirdness is "how does the weirdness serve story."
Personally, I had an secret fun alt that absolutely positively was from Vana'diel. This all served as part of a story that had ended when I stopped playing XI, leaving the character stranded in the Crystal War Era. Apparently he saved the girl he loved back in the past, and had to stick around long enough to do so. After that, everything was about getting back to the present (without erasing the OTS's existence). The being stuck in Eorzea served that story and its over all evolution and conclusion (he made it back. There was a big ole group gathering thing, IC wedding thing, and a really sappy song. All part of a bunch of friends saying "so long FFXI, you were awesome.")Â
The devil is always in the details. Why a certain thing is being portrayed, along with how. No one really grocked to the fact that secret alt was from a different world entirely, just that he behaved strange and had weird names for things that he used on occasion. He also did not seem overly concerned with any Eorzea's problems. Each story and character is different, but as I am often fond of saying, "Real assassins don't go shouting out that they are assassins in crowded bars, only dumb or supremely overconfident assassins do that." The spirit of this rule can be applied to many things, including inter-dimensional travel. In short, concepts in and of themselves, or on their face, do not "RUIN THINGS FOREVAR!" Bad portrayal of out of the norm concepts does. Y
RE: Stupid Question: Vana'diel - Yssen - 11-16-2015
Can it be done? Yup. Absolutely. It is stated in several Ultimania for various FF's that Atomos is the the same Atomos in every incarnation, and pretty much exists as a giant weird sentient gateway. Further, FFXIV itself has poked on to fact that "The Void, is the Void, is the Void" across the FF cosmology. Travel methodology and details are all just aspects of story in the end.
Should it be done? Sure. Go for it, but examine why you are doing it and how it would come up in a realistic sense. The current event quest is a pretty good example. The Shantoto event from a while ago, also good. The main question you should always ask yourself with weirdness is "how does the weirdness serve story."
Personally, I had an secret fun alt that absolutely positively was from Vana'diel. To my great suprise, portraying this did not ruin everything forever. This did all serve as part of a larger story, however. The story originally ended when I stopped playing XI, leaving the character stranded in the Crystal War Era. Apparently he saved the girl he loved when she was a little girl back in the past. Thus he had to stick around long enough to do so. After that point, everything was about getting back to the present (without erasing the OTS's existence). The being stuck in Eorzea served that story and its over all evolution and conclusion (he made it back. There was a big ole group gathering thing, IC wedding thing, and a really sappy song. All part of a bunch of friends saying "so long FFXI, you were awesome.")Â
The devil is always in the details. Why a certain thing is being portrayed, along with how. No one really grocked to the fact that secret alt was from a different world entirely, just that he behaved strange and had weird names for things that he used on occasion. He also did not seem overly concerned with any Eorzea's problems. Each story and character is different, but as I am often fond of saying, "Real assassins don't go shouting out that they are assassins in crowded bars, only dumb or supremely overconfident assassins do that." The spirit of this rule can be applied to many things, including inter-dimensional travel. In short, concepts in and of themselves, or on their face, do not "RUIN THINGS FOREVAR!" Poor portrayal of concepts does.Â
You do you. Anyone that is going to immediately judge and cut you off from RP their section of RP world over a concept, rather than seeing the evidence of how you handle that concept, is probably being a closed-minded jerk anyway. There are more fun people out there to interact with than people who just want to be "no fun police." Yar.
RE: Stupid Question: Vana'diel - Cynel1 - 11-16-2015
Still what is more Plausible Crossing over from XI or making your XIV character a Alternate self.
RE: Stupid Question: Vana'diel - Ashe - 11-16-2015
Honestly though, even if it's possible I don't see why there is a need for it?
If you want to RP your FFXI character in FFXIV just make an FFXIV version of them. Many FFXIV players haven't played FFXI and will more than likely not accept it as it's RP from a different game/lore/world, etc. Their characters may not accept it either...travel between universes isn't really a well known concept to the average person in Hydaelyn.
In the end, it'd be up to the player to make the decision that their character, out of all the people on Vana'diel, was chosen to go to Hydaelyn and be some super amazing whatever. But at that point, you might as well RP a primal or some other god-level mage like Shantotto or whatever.
So yeah, it's a matter of do whatever but there's no reason to if you just rework your character to work for Hydaelyn's lore (which there is plenty of)...or, if you want to play FFXI so badly, then play until the servers are closed for good?