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Lore Discrepancies between 1.x and ARR - Printable Version

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RE: Lore Discrepancies between 1.x and ARR - Aysun - 07-29-2013

Wow. This is an odd topic. I guess I'll explain my vote:

Of course it's a continuation of the 1.0 story! They even gave us a special way for our 1.0 characters to be transferred to ARR ICly if we wanted to utilize it.

No way in the seven hells am I voiding 2+ years of RP because people don't like that 1.0 and ARR don't match up perfectly and they can't explain every little tiny difference. xD

RE: Lore Discrepancies between 1.x and ARR - FreelanceWizard - 07-29-2013

The reason Minfilia remembers you is because of the Echo, IIRC. Those with the Echo aren't subject to the spell's "flashy thing," it seems. From my play of the main scenario quest for ARR, I largely agree with Ashren Snow's interpretation -- people who know you through adventuring but don't have the Echo don't remember you, since the memory wipe covers essentially the story of 1.x. (This is why the Adventurers' Guilds treat you as someone new.) Those who knew you for other reasons -- friends and family, possibly enemies gained prior to that story -- are probably wondering where in the Seven Hells you've been for the last five years. Whether they believe you when you say you're one of the Warriors of Light when all they remember is you going off to be an adventurer is another matter entirely. Smile

Oh, and as for the poll? I feel it's clearly intended to be a continuation of the story, and that's coming from someone who played 1.x for all of like a day post-launch. Smile

RE: Lore Discrepancies between 1.x and ARR - Ashren Dotharl - 07-29-2013

I actually didn't realize there was even room for debate that it was a continuation/sequel to 1.X. The storyline clearly continues from the original, they reference it continually, not just in dialogue or storyline, but in the world as well. The giant flamey orange crystals you see scattered all over the place (especially in Thanalan) were remnants of Bahamuts attack, Gaius' assault on Eorzea is a continuation of his work in 1.0 before Nael showed up and took over things, and there are a lot of returning characters that have changed since.

If nothing else the addition of Cid's facial hair shows it's a continuation!

RE: Lore Discrepancies between 1.x and ARR - Myxie Tryxle - 07-29-2013

(07-29-2013, 05:38 PM)Aysun Wrote: Wow. This is an odd topic. I guess I'll explain my vote:

Of course it's a continuation of the 1.0 story! They even gave us a special way for our 1.0 characters to be transferred to ARR ICly if we wanted to utilize it.

No way in the seven hells am I voiding 2+ years of RP because people don't like that 1.0 and ARR don't match up perfectly and they can't explain every little tiny difference. xD

Actually, this post stems from an interesting difference I realized based on your post on one of my other threads. It seems to me that the 1.x players and the new ARR players (in which I'm including myself because I only played 1.0 for two months after it released) are on different pages.

Looking back through my previous threads, I found a trend based on the join date listed under the information on each poster's placard. The newer members who joined in the last few months were a lot more likely to join in on the speculation or post/PM their appreciation for the discussion. The older members were more likely to try to reign in or discourage the discussion or just not post at all. I came to the realization that this community is going through growing pains. Ideas that are fresh and interesting to us newer players may be concluded or jaded to the older players.

So I'm trying to bridge that gap a little and appreciate the older players' point of view as well as clear up some of the lore I missed from 1.x. For example, before posting this poll, I had no idea that characters were time-warped or that the amnesia was only partial. I thought the whole thing was a reboot and wondered how the older players would deal with that considering several years of RP history in their character's backgrounds. It's been enlightening.
(07-29-2013, 06:04 PM)Ashren Snow Wrote: If nothing else the addition of Cid's facial hair shows it's a continuation!

Or that he's bizarro Cid and can't be trusted! >.>

RE: Lore Discrepancies between 1.x and ARR - Ildur - 07-29-2013

I think that if the memory-wipe only obscured the Warriors' faces and nothing else, then people would have made memorials with their names or, on a meta level, it would have been mentioned in the introduction. It's more likely that the spell made people forget about their individual features. They know the Warriors existed, but can't tell anything specific about them.

We'll have to wait until we play through the storyline to know all the details, I guess.

RE: Lore Discrepancies between 1.x and ARR - Eva - 07-29-2013

(07-29-2013, 06:08 PM)Callipygian Wrote: Looking back through my previous threads, I found a trend based on the join date listed under the information on each poster's placard.  The newer members who joined in the last few months were a lot more likely to join in on the speculation or post/PM their appreciation for the discussion.  The older members were more likely to try to reign in or discourage the discussion or just not post at all.  I came to the realization that this community is going through growing pains.  Ideas that are fresh and interesting to us newer players may be concluded or jaded to the older players.

Coming from the perspective of a legacy player, I can agree to a certain extent.  I want to help and share what lore there was from 1.0 and help other RPers see this world the way that I have seen it.  But I also see that a lot of newer RPers want to take certain liberties with the lore themselves, or in some cases ignore what is there entirely in favor of alternative interpretations, often based on content which may have nothing at all to do with the game's lore.  In most cases this is just fine since there will exist a plethora of sub-communities that may support some things and frown upon others, and the like-minded folks will clump together.  People are afraid of "cliques" like it's some awful thing, but this is natural behavior and though I think some efforts should be made to branch out with newer folks, there will usually inevitably form a handful of RPers with whom people may grow closer and more comfortable - and that should be celebrated because making friends and spending time with those friends is a good thing, just as being open to making new friends is also a good thing.

But pertaining more to the lore, most things are open to interpretation and as time goes on I'm sure we'll all be closer to meeting somewhere in the middle.  I don't think us old fogeys have any expectations or anything.  Most of us are eager for the chance to RP with you young whippersnappers.  But regardless of how many years of RP experience one might have, it doesn't necessarily equate to experience within the realm of Eorzea.  So while we want to help and foster creative thinking and stuff, I think some of us may get a little put off when there's a sort of disconnect between what the legacy folk have seen over a longer span of time, and what newer folk coming to Eorzea, hungry for lore that, in many cases, might just not be there.

So perhaps a standard was established by some in 1.0 and some (not myself personally) might see it as a bit of a disruption when there crop up a number of threads theorycrafting all manner of things.  I have tried in some threads to post links to original discussions that happened back in 1.0.  I'm hesitant to say outright, "This has all been discussed before," because that suggests we're not open to alternative interpretations.  But for some of us these are older discussions brought back to life.

I guess that's just my POV.  I'm not saying "don't make ripples" or any such thing.  Make waves!  Question things!  I realize that us folks who actually stuck with the game for 2+ years and RPed throughout that entire duration are something of a minority, and we're as eager to RP with some fresh new faces as you are (or I hope so, anyway!)  But this is a place that has come to feel like home to many of us, and we've gladly opened our doors to everyone and the only analogy I can think to make is that sometimes it feels like y'all are coming in and moving the furniture around and stuff.  XD  Maybe the sofa does make more sense up against that other wall, but we've grown used to it where it was, and there is a bit of resistance to that sort of change.  It doesn't mean it's wrong.  Just that it's different and it's something we'll have to learn to adapt to or we all just find some place to meet in the middle.

But we're certainly not telling y'all to get off our lawn!!!  We want you here, and we hope you'll stay and RP!  Thumbsup

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EDIT:  Since it has also been brought up here, these are two fairly recent threads that discuss the "foggy memory syndrome" and the Warriors of Light - these might be worth checking out or bumping if there is room for further discussion on those matters:
1. http://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/showthread.php?tid=2179
2. http://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/showthread.php?tid=2661

RE: Lore Discrepancies between 1.x and ARR - Ashren Dotharl - 07-29-2013

Well it's also complicated because it's not just the people who fought in the war, it's the war itself that was made fuzzy by the amnesia which suggests it wasn't just the time traveling that caused it. The fact that people don't remember a lot about what happened during the Calamity means there's something much bigger going on. I'd like to say that people who knew you well were likely to remember you, but sadly the only person I ran into that showed any signs of remembering me was Minfilia. When I played in 1.X it was in Ul'dah with the Immortal Flames which meant I did a lot of quests that involved Thancred and Raubahn but neither recognized me during the storyline in Phase 3.

Still I think it's safe to assume that people you grew up with, family members, things like that they would have a very difficult time forgetting who you are, even if they don't remember your part in the events of the Calamity.

RE: Lore Discrepancies between 1.x and ARR - Myxie Tryxle - 07-29-2013

Thanks, Eva. You're mirroring my own sentiment. While I'm not sure if my posts are making waves, I did try to rock the boat a little to get discussion going. I find it gets people talking. Hopefully no one felt like I was stepping on toes (or throwing out a beloved thread-worn sofa).

For those other new players like me who are itching to learn more about the story of 1.x and its lore, I would suggest checking out Merri's post on "A comprehensive look at the Seventh Umbral Era story arc," which I just discovered. For some reason when I saw that before in the RP Discussion forum, I thought it was about ARR, not 1.x, so I didn't read it because I didn't want spoilers. The calendar in this setting is very confusing to me for some reason.

RE: Lore Discrepancies between 1.x and ARR - Ashren Dotharl - 07-29-2013

Another good thread to check out (also by Merri) is Eozean lore and facts, it's mostly small tidbits but it still seems pretty handy.

RE: Lore Discrepancies between 1.x and ARR - Ildur - 07-29-2013

You have to eat those spoilers like a professional spoiler eater if you want your roleplay to be consistent with lore. Otherwise, those spoilers might come back to bite you instead.

RE: Lore Discrepancies between 1.x and ARR - AkhutaiAngura - 07-29-2013

(07-29-2013, 06:20 PM)Ildur Wrote: I think that if the memory-wipe only obscured the Warriors' faces and nothing else, then people would have made memorials with their names or, on a meta level, it would have been mentioned in the introduction. It's more likely that the spell made people forget about their individual features. They know the Warriors existed, but can't tell anything specific about them.

We'll have to wait until we play through the storyline to know all the details, I guess.


During my play through on one of the beta weekends.. The one where they introduced the duty finder, I believe.. I was doing the primary chain through Ul'dah, and just before you're sent off to the other capitals, whatshisface - Big black dude - tells you the story of the Warriors of Light.

I'm almost postive he says exactly what Ildur said.. That all they remember about the Warriors of Light is that they existed. They can't remember the face, or name, or anything about them.. Just that they were alive, and they saved Eorzea. 

He described it as looking up at a hilltop, and seeing a silhouetted figure.

Personally, I think this leaves ARR open to interpretation. We can read that as saying WE are the Warriors of Light returned, or we can read that as saying SE will eventually bring in some NPC's who are the 'official' Warriors of Light.

RE: Lore Discrepancies between 1.x and ARR - Ashren Dotharl - 07-30-2013

(07-29-2013, 10:15 PM)Kaln Wrote: Personally, I think this leaves ARR open to interpretation. We can read that as saying WE are the Warriors of Light returned, or we can read that as saying SE will eventually bring in some NPC's who are the 'official' Warriors of Light.

I recall Yoshida at one point referring directly to the player characters as the Warriors of Light, and it really wouldn't make sense that everyone only forgot the Warriors of Light but yet they still forgot us returning characters as well? That implies VERY strongly that we are said Warriors of Light. While not exactly proof, it can further be justified by the fact that the CE Helmet this time around is the Warrior of Light helmet.

RE: Lore Discrepancies between 1.x and ARR - Sienna - 07-30-2013

It's not just implied. If your character had completed the Seventh Umbral Era storyline, you get slightly tweaked cutscenes where occasionally NPCs who have the Echo will state they remember you and know what you did for them at the battle.

RE: Lore Discrepancies between 1.x and ARR - Myxie Tryxle - 07-30-2013

(07-30-2013, 08:46 AM)Sienna Wrote: It's not just implied. If your character had completed the Seventh Umbral Era storyline, you get slightly tweaked cutscenes where occasionally NPCs who have the Echo will state they remember you and know what you did for them at the battle.

Now that is really cool! All the more reason I wish my old account was Legacy.

RE: Lore Discrepancies between 1.x and ARR - Sienna - 07-30-2013

It's a nice touch, though sadly it isn't something all 1.0/legacy players get. I've started anew with alts who never beat the storyline and they're treated to the "normal mode" playthrough.