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+--- Thread: Dark Knight, hinted. Samurai Folder found. (/showthread.php?tid=8703)
RE: Dark Knight, hinted. Samurai Folder found. - Sophia_Grave - 10-21-2014
The whole branching jobs from classes thing doesn't really work well outside of Arcanist because of pets. Pets give an additional 4 skills alongside of the 5 which come from the job crystal. Aside from those 5(+4), the jobs are essentially identical. If SE were to do DRK from GLA, then DRK would play nearly identically to PLDs, aka Halone spam. Sure they'd have 5 new skills to play with, but 5 isn't enough to make the job feel much different. This would also force DRK to be some sort of tank or worse, an extremely tanky DPS due to Rampart, Sentinel, Bulwark. Furthermore, any additional skills we get from any level cap raise will have to be balanced for both DRK and PLD, which can be very wonky if DRK is a DPS.
I feel its better for everyone if DRK comes from its own class just like everyone else does. The way the armory/job crystal system works really hogties a lot of what SE can do. Honestly, I hope they do away with these systems entirely.
RE: Dark Knight, hinted. Samurai Folder found. - Warren Castille - 10-21-2014
Live Letter XVII Wrote:You previously mentioned that there would be some changes for the job/class system in 3.0, can you provide any more information about that?
I can't. I think that once we increase the level cap, there will be many new growth elements. That's not to say the old system will be completely eliminated and rebuilt, but the new system may or may not retain some of the elements.
Just something to keep in mind. What we think we know may not apply at all come Heavensward.
RE: Dark Knight, hinted. Samurai Folder found. - Zyrusticae - 10-21-2014
Seriously though, rule of thumb - new weapon = new class.
They're not going to base SAM or DRK off of an existing class. It defeats the purpose.
RE: Dark Knight, hinted. Samurai Folder found. - Kellach Woods - 10-22-2014
I'd be very surprised if we got more than 1-2 branches out of this expansion if we get any, and if the system stays remotely the same.
RE: Dark Knight, hinted. Samurai Folder found. - Cranechild - 10-23-2014
(10-21-2014, 08:51 AM)Apl_Juice Wrote: The whole branching jobs from classes thing doesn't really work well outside of Arcanist because of pets. Pets give an additional 4 skills alongside of the 5 which come from the job crystal. Aside from those 5(+4), the jobs are essentially identical. If SE were to do DRK from GLA, then DRK would play nearly identically to PLDs, aka Halone spam. Sure they'd have 5 new skills to play with, but 5 isn't enough to make the job feel much different. This would also force DRK to be some sort of tank or worse, an extremely tanky DPS due to Rampart, Sentinel, Bulwark. Furthermore, any additional skills we get from any level cap raise will have to be balanced for both DRK and PLD, which can be very wonky if DRK is a DPS.Not that I disagree with you at all but according to one interview the people asked Yoshi-P about how he mentioned more "Jobs" as opposed to more "classes" and his response was "You have a very good ear for this."
I feel its better for everyone if DRK comes from its own class just like everyone else does. The way the armory/job crystal system works really hogties a lot of what SE can do. Honestly, I hope they do away with these systems entirely.
So from this we can at least assume that they will be "Jobs" and would have to branch off from the original classes. OF course this doesn't mean they aren't capable of revamping skills to fit both branches.
again, just speculation on my part.
RE: Dark Knight, hinted. Samurai Folder found. - Aldotsk - 10-23-2014
Sometimes, expansions completely change gameplay styles for some MMORPGs or any type of online games. And possibility is that further expansions may make Disciple of War/Magic to completely disappear, and people can just choose their classes/jobs by switching their soul crystals. That's just my two cents, but I doubt it'll happen.
I was technically the only one who was okay with FFXI job changing system I think. I forgot how 1.0 job switching worked, but I literally didn't have to rely on equipping weapon to change a class.
RE: Dark Knight, hinted. Samurai Folder found. - Warren Castille - 10-23-2014
(10-23-2014, 01:21 PM)Aldotsk Wrote: I forgot how 1.0 job switching worked, but I literally didn't have to rely on equipping weapon to change a class.
Yes you did. For jobs, you needed the correct weapon equipped and then equipped the soulstone. You had to have something equipped in your main hand at all times, and it dictated your class.
RE: Dark Knight, hinted. Samurai Folder found. - Aldotsk - 10-23-2014
(10-23-2014, 01:25 PM)Warren Castille Wrote:(10-23-2014, 01:21 PM)Aldotsk Wrote: I forgot how 1.0 job switching worked, but I literally didn't have to rely on equipping weapon to change a class.
Yes you did. For jobs, you needed the correct weapon equipped and then equipped the soulstone. You had to have something equipped in your main hand at all times, and it dictated your class.
I see. Well, I really hope they'll get deeper about the job system a bit more because to me it feels like DoW/DoM is going to be obsolete anytime soon since there will be more jobs than class and I think developers are trying to push to that anyways.Â
After all FFXI all had jobs, not classes from the start.
RE: Dark Knight, hinted. Samurai Folder found. - CrookedTarot - 10-23-2014
(10-21-2014, 01:09 AM)Erik Mynhier Wrote: Don't give me Dark Knight and kick me in the.... well you know. Please let it be a GLD job or have its own class. I just don't want an axe wielding DRK, either Sword and Board.... which I prefer... or a Greatsword which would be amazing in and of itself.
Traditionally, the Dark Knights have been greatsword or sword and board.
But considering how Yoshi feels about 'tradition' in the series, the odds are just as much in favor of it being Marauder.
RE: Dark Knight, hinted. Samurai Folder found. - Melkire - 10-23-2014
Couldn't DRK use both great swords and great axes in XI? Weren't they also scythe users?
RE: Dark Knight, hinted. Samurai Folder found. - Aldotsk - 10-23-2014
(10-23-2014, 01:54 PM)Melkire Wrote: Couldn't DRK use both great swords and great axes in XI? Weren't they also scythe users?
That you were right. Scythe Dark Knights were better than Great Swords imo for FFXI.
RE: Dark Knight, hinted. Samurai Folder found. - Warren Castille - 10-23-2014
(10-23-2014, 01:54 PM)Aldotsk Wrote:(10-23-2014, 01:54 PM)Melkire Wrote: Couldn't DRK use both great swords and great axes in XI? Weren't they also scythe users?
That you were right. Scythe Dark Knights were better than Great Swords imo for FFXI.
They could also use Greataxes, which beat both Scythe and Gsword until level 60. At that point it was a toss up.
Apocalypse made DRK into an entirely different monster. Empyrian Greatsword blew anything else DRK could use away. Not sure what the status quo is in 2014, though.
There is no "right" answer.
RE: Dark Knight, hinted. Samurai Folder found. - Telluride - 10-23-2014
(10-23-2014, 01:51 PM)CrookedTarot Wrote:(10-21-2014, 01:09 AM)Erik Mynhier Wrote: Don't give me Dark Knight and kick me in the.... well you know. Please let it be a GLD job or have its own class. I just don't want an axe wielding DRK, either Sword and Board.... which I prefer... or a Greatsword which would be amazing in and of itself.
Traditionally, the Dark Knights have been greatsword or sword and board.
But considering how Yoshi feels about 'tradition' in the series, the odds are just as much in favor of it being Marauder.
I rather like the idea of a Dark Knight being a new Gladiator job - instead of leveling Conjurer to make a Paladin, level Thaumaturge to 15 to make it a Dark Knight, and thus the Paladin's mirror image. It's reminiscent of the Dark Templar class from Age Of Conan, and some of the Reaver Tank combos from Rift, which emphasize magic mitigation and heavy AOE Threat with the use of nasty little things like poison and demonic hands rising up in a circle around the character.
Samurai seems trickier, but then, I can't always think like SE does in the way it mixes Western and Eastern fantasy tropes, so they have options on approaching it.
The future of the game could very well simply be new Job combos for the existing classes, giving each one, eventually, the split options that the Arcanist has.
RE: Dark Knight, hinted. Samurai Folder found. - Warren Castille - 10-23-2014
My current guess is that the new jobs will just be the new jobs. Lock them off as starting class options and keep people forced to be one of the original classes, but just have 1-60 as DRK or RDM or SAM or MSK.
Someone on BG floated the idea of Orator being the new gunner class, and I am ALL OVER that. It fits the Ishgardian setting, too; A "noble" of the church, but packing heat? I've got a soft spot for the badass preacher archetype, though; It's all I use in Killing Floor and I mostly play Berserker there, so Katana Pope is a thing in my world.
RE: Dark Knight, hinted. Samurai Folder found. - CrookedTarot - 10-23-2014
(10-23-2014, 02:03 PM)Telluride Wrote: I rather like the idea of a Dark Knight being a new Gladiator job - instead of leveling Conjurer to make a Paladin, level Thaumaturge to 15 to make it a Dark Knight, and thus the Paladin's mirror image. Â It's reminiscent of the Dark Templar class from Age Of Conan, and some of the Reaver Tank combos from Rift, which emphasize magic mitigation and heavy AOE Threat with the use of nasty little things like poison and demonic hands rising up in a circle around the character.
Samurai seems trickier, but then, I can't always think like SE does in the way it mixes Western and Eastern fantasy tropes, so they have options on approaching it.
The future of the game could very well simply be new Job combos for the existing classes, giving each one, eventually, the split options that the Arcanist has.
Given that Rogue is an entirely new set of weapons (dual wielding) and is a combo of Lancer and Pug, it's very possible that what could end up happening is a base, secondary and then Job. Ninja is a combo of Rogue, Lancer and Pug if I recall correctly.
For instance, Dancer could be 'PUG+ROG+ARC=Dancer'
You have two base classes and then the 'secondary' or tirtiary or whatever. A class could require three different classes to make one of the 'Advanced' classes which then opens into a Job.
So Dark Knight could easily be, 'Gladiator 30 + Thau 15 + Maurader 15'
This would teach the character the basics for using a sword, using dark arts and using an over-sized weapon, all of which could create a 'Greatsword' trained class.