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+--- Thread: Is it really impossible to RP if I want my character to become a White Mage? (/showthread.php?tid=14559)
RE: Is it really impossible to RP if I want my character to become a White Mage? - Vyce - 12-14-2015
I personally find the whole, "Nobody can tell you what to RP, so do what you want" thing to be pandering and false. We CAN tell you what to RP. In fact all of these suggestions are telling you what to RP or what RP will be found acceptable.
You have the option of employing the suggestions given or having a difficult time. We love to say you have creative freedom. You do! But like NPC RPers, once you choose to step beyond what is commonly accepted in the universe, you alienate yourself. Doesn't matter how many people tell you to play a Primal or a Padjal or a time-space witch or Minfilia "if it makes you happy". The world and its rules were crated by Square Enix. If you want to change how the world works, ask them to change it. Doing it yourself causes problems that don't need to exist.
As suggested, the BEST thing to do is play a powerful Conjurer. You don't need White Magic. But if you absolutely have to play an actual White Mage, avoid saying an Elemental gave it to you. You can't play a Padjal.
I'd personally also avoid "I randomly found a Soul Crystal while on a leisurely stroll through the ruins of Amdapor." It's kind of a cop-out. UNLESS. You have a very good reason for even being there in the first place.
RE: Is it really impossible to RP if I want my character to become a White Mage? - Kage - 12-14-2015
When you ask, "is it impossible," of course the answer will be "no, it's not impossible". You are most likely asking the wrong question though.
There are better questions to ask both yourself and then ask others.
How widespread or accepted do you want your RP? Are you going to be happy with just a few or do you want acceptance from everyone? Do you want to pander to the masses or are you ok with the idea that you will most likely be ignored? If you are willing to just have fun, then fuck it, work in the soulstone or WoL with a group with like minds and go at it. Write it well, have fun, and get your Succor on.
If you have no issues with having fun and aren't going to care about pandering to everyone, good for you. Everyone who bitches and moans about -your- RP more than just saying "Oh that person is a WHM... I will most likely end up just ignoring them for IC sake" are jealous boohoos with more concern about the RP you're getting.
Fact: Lots of roleplayers are selective. They will not all roleplay with all people and with all characters. I myself am quite selective with who I will roleplay and interact with but I am -also- perfectly fine with not RPing 24/7. I don't mind that I do not cater to everyone else's desires and opinions. Will I RP with NPC rpers? Nope. Am I going to bash them? Nope. Make a comment or two and then go about my way? Most likely. Want to read what antics and shenanigans the Heavensward RPers as well as the Fortemps RPers get into? Possible...
Most likely the same with White Mage RPers.
If you do care that people will end up ignoring a White Mage, either due to OOC bias or because somehow their character even -knows- the differences between Conjury and White Mage Succor... then well you are most likely better off not roleplaying a White Mage. People don't like it when you head into 'special snowflake' 'WoL' or other because it puts you into more of a spotlight and less on the stage.
RE: Is it really impossible to RP if I want my character to become a White Mage? - Oli! - 12-14-2015
Perhaps there's lore somewhere that refutes this view, but I find myself doubting the "find a soulstone" angle to begin with.
From what we know (and / or guess) about Soulstones, they are basically contained knowledge and memories, not actual aptitude for something. If they contained the actual ability to do a job, then giving a handicapped man a MNK soulstone would give him the ability to do kung-fu and backflips, and giving the Gem of Shattoto to the aetherless Thaumaturge brother would make him the world's most powerful wizard. With the boxes and boxes of PLD soulstones that Ul'dah apparently has, they could hand a stone out to every man, woman, and child, and have the most powerful military on the continent. Additionally, before you're given any of these Soulstones in the first place, you're already accomplished in the foundations of what makes those jobs possible, to the point of maybe even being the best at it in certain cases.
Finding a WHM soulstone seems like it might give you the knowledge to control Succor, but I highly doubt that it would give you the succor itself, considering we apparently have evidence that suggests that Succor was given, and not created. If this is indeed the case, then it wouldn't be possible to gain control of Succor simply by gaining a Soulstone, you would still have to go to the source.
If I had to guess, the "nefarious second way" that someone quoted one of the devs as saying would be something along the lines of "finding a Padjal or Elemental and kicking the Succor out of them," since that still involves getting Succor from the source material in some way.
RE: Is it really impossible to RP if I want my character to become a White Mage? - MissMizzy - 12-14-2015
I guess I meant is it impossible while following the Lore specifically. However, I am just choosing to lvl her up in White mage so I can have access to lvl 60 in that, but she is just gonna be a really powerful conjurer/healer IC and she will not use spells learned by the white mage IC.
 I am happy with this decision...her basic goal is to be a really helpful healer, so I guess the title does not matter. (I just liked the title white mage better due to previous FF games is all)
RE: Is it really impossible to RP if I want my character to become a White Mage? - Warren Castille - 12-14-2015
(12-14-2015, 11:14 AM)missmizzy4 Wrote: I guess I meant is it impossible while following the Lore specifically. However, I am just choosing to lvl her up in White mage so I can have access to lvl 60 in that, but she is just gonna be a really powerful conjurer/healer IC and she will not use spells learned by the white mage IC.
I think most of us agree that taking an iconic job in the series and sticking it behind a ridiculous number of hoops and qualifications was one of the more cruel dick moves SE has done in XIV, at least for roleplayers.
RE: Is it really impossible to RP if I want my character to become a White Mage? - Oli! - 12-14-2015
(12-14-2015, 11:14 AM)missmizzy4 Wrote: I guess I meant is it impossible while following the Lore specifically.
When following given and stated Lore, without theory-crafting, alternative interpretations, bending, assumptions, and use of grey-areas, the answer to this is Yes.
RE: Is it really impossible to RP if I want my character to become a White Mage? - Yssen - 12-14-2015
(12-14-2015, 01:13 AM)LiadansWhisper Wrote:(12-14-2015, 12:36 AM)Teadrinker Wrote: * It might be wise to inform someone OOCly if they are showing to become a frequent RP partner so you don't inadvertently drag them into something they don't find compatible with the lore as they accept it.
Or you can avoid mixing OOC and IC and just make sure it never comes up IC if you're really worried about it.
But if you've played it really solidly, I doubt any decent RPer is going to have an issue with it, and if they do, they can speak to you then.
If people we good at avoiding the mix of IC and OOC in their RP effectively, we wouldn't have people shouting down anyone that may be asking about how to RP a WHM with stuff like "yeah i won't RP with any of those crazies" with out ifs ands or buts. ;p
RE: Is it really impossible to RP if I want my character to become a White Mage? - Zetchryn - 12-14-2015
Without either finding another WHM to teach you (and still needed the blessing of the Elementals somewhat), a soul gem, or some other thing like that, it is impossible to become a white mage.
Can these things happen? Yes. My character gained access to a Soul Gem through a relationship with another player who had access to one. It cracked, however, and she's been slowly losing the knowledge and the power, and has actually begun to lose access to her conjury entirely as her own knowledge had become tied into the gem.
The Jobs in FFXIV can be great aspects of a character, and can help drive plot. You just need a group of friends willing to help you with it, or else sell the story and explanation perfect. However, as you discovered, it's often easier just to go with the base class and become skilled. The best way to pull off any Job? Find a teacher ICly.
RE: Is it really impossible to RP if I want my character to become a White Mage? - V'aleera - 12-14-2015
(12-14-2015, 11:14 AM)missmizzy4 Wrote: I guess I meant is it impossible while following the Lore specifically.
Strictly speaking, it is impossible to roleplay any player-created character within the bounds of canon lore. Creating and roleplaying a character requires that you enter the grey and undefined spaces of lore; to what extent one chooses to do so is entirely up to the individual.
RE: Is it really impossible to RP if I want my character to become a White Mage? - Vyce - 12-14-2015
(12-14-2015, 12:13 PM)V Wrote:(12-14-2015, 11:14 AM)missmizzy4 Wrote: I guess I meant is it impossible while following the Lore specifically.
Strictly speaking, it is impossible to roleplay any player-created character within the bounds of canon lore. Creating and roleplaying a character requires that you enter the grey and undefined spaces of lore; to what extent one chooses to do so is entirely up to the individual.
No it isn't. And RPing in a gray area with headcanon is vastly different from RPing against concrete lore.
RPing in a gray also does not mean "I don't see anything saying there AREN'T Doman Lalafell with Doman names, so I can canonically name mine Yukata Senketsu." because you still have to use logic for your bending.
RE: Is it really impossible to RP if I want my character to become a White Mage? - Teadrinker - 12-14-2015
(12-14-2015, 10:47 AM)Oli! Wrote: If I had to guess, the "nefarious second way" that someone quoted one of the devs as saying would be something along the lines of "finding a Padjal or Elemental and kicking the Succor out of them," since that still involves getting Succor from the source material in some way.
I remember a lore panel blurb that suggested something like this was in the works but I am not sure if/when it has or will come to pass.
I would hazard a guess, however, that it would make your character pretty...probably same status as BLM or possibly worse considering it would be current events. Go directly to gaol.
RE: Is it really impossible to RP if I want my character to become a White Mage? - Valence - 12-14-2015
If that's just the title you like though, why not using a custom title of a little order of conjurers your character would be part of?
White something? Not mages, but something that sounds cool too?
RE: Is it really impossible to RP if I want my character to become a White Mage? - Cailean Lockwood - 12-14-2015
I've always said people can RP what they want, but if they choose to RP something that isn't commonly accepted or against the lore, you will meet resistance.
... Just like real life, really. Being a sheep and follow the herd is the easy way. Be like everyone else is the easy way.
Do what you want though, as long you don't harm others in doing so. Breaking lore isn't really harmful to anyone... even though the elitists might ry and convince you otherwise.
RE: Is it really impossible to RP if I want my character to become a White Mage? - Vyce - 12-14-2015
Breaking lore intentionally is more harmful to YOU than to others.
It makes you WILLFULLY IGNORANT, which is a terrible, terrible thing to be.
RationalWiki Wrote:Willful ignorance is the state and practice of ignoring any sensory input that appears to contradict one’s inner model of reality. At heart, it is almost certainly driven by confirmation bias.
It differs from the standard definition of “ignorance“ — which just means that one is unaware of something — in that willfully ignorant people are fully aware of facts, resources and sources, but refuse to acknowledge them.
RE: Is it really impossible to RP if I want my character to become a White Mage? - Yssen - 12-14-2015
(12-14-2015, 04:33 PM)Vyce Wrote: Breaking lore intentionally is more harmful to YOU than to others.
It makes you WILLFULLY IGNORANT, which is a terrible, terrible thing to be.
RationalWiki Wrote:Willful ignorance is the state and practice of ignoring any sensory input that appears to contradict one’s inner model of reality. At heart, it is almost certainly driven by confirmation bias.
It differs from the standard definition of “ignorance“ — which just means that one is unaware of something — in that willfully ignorant people are fully aware of facts, resources and sources, but refuse to acknowledge them.
Like everyone who kept saying you cannot RP DRGs over and over, even after the Heavensward trailer came out show many of them, in AF, with Gae Bolgs? Or that people often gloss over the fact that we have been told by the main lore dev/guru, Koji Fox that there is another way to get at White Magic that is nefarious? Or any other bit of Jobby Job in Heavensward that has started becoming openly trained in places? (Leaving that one vague for now because spoilers.)
One can break lore just as easily by denying things that are out there in favor of their accepted/preferred world view. Saying one type of player is doing that, while another type is not is a silly statement. Particularly when we exist in a state where we do not know everything and can made out to be wrong down the line. Yar.