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+--- Thread: 4.0 will not require 3.0 to be completed (/showthread.php?tid=13117)
RE: 4.0 will not require 3.0 to be completed - LiadansWhisper - 08-28-2015
(08-28-2015, 12:33 AM)Kellach Woods Wrote: Hence why I don't get this whole "play the game to play the game" bullshit and why it hasn't been called out as a slippery slope as well?
Not as much of a slippery slope as you think btw - I was called out for not doing much of coil in an earlier dungeon.
I'd hope we could have this conversation with a little less hostility.
I really don't think that's what Sounsyy was saying at all. Â Also, simply because you were called out in a dungeon for not doing Coil...I mean, that only proves (yet again) that people can be assholes in dungeons. Â It doesn't mean that your slippery slope analogy holds any merit.
RE: 4.0 will not require 3.0 to be completed - Glacirus - 08-28-2015
I think, for 4.0 to work well with pre-established patterns that 2.0/3.0 use, the content has to be semi-gated. What I mean is Classes/Races/Zones should be made available to access just by purchasing the expansion, but MSQ/Dungeons should require at least 2.55 MSQ to be completed, if not 3.X as well.
I feel this would work best because we'd stop people from going "I just want to play as DRK now while I'm just unlocking Brayflox!" while still having them play through the old dungeons/content to learn mechanics. Let everyone play as Red Mage (or Blue...or Dancer...or whatever else they're teasing will be next xP) instantly. If anything it'll help them learn the class faster, and decide quicker if they want to really use it.
RE: 4.0 will not require 3.0 to be completed - Flashhelix - 08-28-2015
(08-28-2015, 12:33 AM)Kellach Woods Wrote:(08-28-2015, 12:31 AM)Flashhelix Wrote:(08-28-2015, 12:29 AM)Kellach Woods Wrote:(08-27-2015, 10:48 PM)Sounsyy Wrote: I kinda have to agree with Warren on this. There are definitely uses for gated content and I'm a believer that you should have to play the game to, y'know, play the game. (Even though I myself really really hate trying to level my BAL alt up to 60 on multiple IC classes just for glamour usage and flying in heavensward zones.)
If that's the case force every bit of content completion rather than just piecemeal it. Didn't do T13? Fuck off you don't get this expansion.
That's a pretty poor slippery slope. Turns are meant to be bonus content from the get-go, along with Alex Savage.
Hence why I don't get this whole "play the game to play the game" bullshit and why it hasn't been called out as a slippery slope as well?
Because it's not, and your analogy is.
RE: 4.0 will not require 3.0 to be completed - Kellach Woods - 08-28-2015
(08-28-2015, 12:37 AM)LiadansWhisper Wrote: I'd hope we could have this conversation with a little less hostility.Less hostility my ass when you have someone in the thread saying anyone who thinks gating is bad should just not play the game. (Not Sounsyy btw)
I really don't think that's what Sounsyy was saying at all. Â Also, simply because you were called out in a dungeon for not doing Coil...I mean, that only proves (yet again) that people can be assholes in dungeons. Â It doesn't mean that your slippery slope analogy holds any merit.
I'm not saying my analogy holds merit - I'm saying it's just as valid as "play the game to play the game", which is to say, not at all. Name a method of leveling beyond hiring someone else to do so (which IIRC would be RMT thus against the EULA thus invalid anyway) that doesn't require playing the game (aka logging in and doing things) and maybe the argument'll hold water.
Chances are the only definitions are things that fall under "not playing the game the way *I* think is correct!"
RE: 4.0 will not require 3.0 to be completed - Edda - 08-28-2015
(08-28-2015, 12:29 AM)Kellach Woods Wrote:I'm confused.(08-27-2015, 10:48 PM)Sounsyy Wrote: I kinda have to agree with Warren on this. There are definitely uses for gated content and I'm a believer that you should have to play the game to, y'know, play the game. (Even though I myself really really hate trying to level my BAL alt up to 60 on multiple IC classes just for glamour usage and flying in heavensward zones.)
If that's the case force every bit of content completion rather than just piecemeal it. Didn't do T13? Fuck off you don't get this expansion.
*goes to uninstall HW*
Do you like the game, or not?
If you don't, maybe you should actually stop playing, and not just because you disagree with content gating. Despite the amount of feedback the devs take into consideration from the community, ultimately FFXIV is a game made by and for Square Enix. The best way to let them know you are displeased with their decisions is to let them know on the forums and cancel your subscription. I see no merit in continuing to pay for a game you are so utterly unhappy with.
RE: 4.0 will not require 3.0 to be completed - Vallerin Hortimont - 08-28-2015
As a game ages, and adds more and more expansions, you need a way to help newer players get caught up to the new content. Imagine having to run 2.0 MSQ, 3.0 MSQ, all the story content added between now and 4.0, just to set FOOT in the new areas of an expansion you paid for. If people want to fate grind to level and skip the MSQ, why not let them? Who does it hurt? Some people like to grind. More options = more subscribers = more money for SE.
As long as they do not compromise the quality and scale of the MSQ for those of us who enjoy it, I see no reason to be upset over this decision.
Edit: Also what about people who want to be pure crafters/gatherers, they can't access the mining/botany/fish resources in Ishgard unless they do the MSQ on a combat job, that is silly.
RE: 4.0 will not require 3.0 to be completed - Kellach Woods - 08-28-2015
(08-28-2015, 01:44 AM)Edda Wrote: If you don't, maybe you should actually stop playing, and not just because you disagree with content gating. Despite the amount of feedback the devs take into consideration from the community, ultimately FFXIV is a game made by and for Square Enix. The best way to let them know you are displeased with their decisions is to let them know on the forums and cancel your subscription. I see no merit in continuing to pay for a game you are so utterly unhappy with.Not the point on that - people were saying it was better to have a common ground of understanding. I pushed it to the point of ridiculousness.
If I didn't enjoy the game I'd have unsubbed a while ago and never looked back. I didn't like the gating but now that it's out I see they've actually made efforts to work with it enough that it mitigates a good portion of the problems I mentioned.
Like, if they decided to gate 4.0 with 3.x MSQ completion I'd have far less problems with it than I had with 3.0 being gated with 2.55 completion because we have precedence on how they'd handle it.
What I dislike is this argument that if you're not playing the game a certain way you should unsub and leave or just not get the game.
RE: 4.0 will not require 3.0 to be completed - Vallerin Hortimont - 08-28-2015
(08-28-2015, 01:57 AM)Kellach Woods Wrote:That is a silly argument yes, but if you are not having fun with something, unsubbing or not playing may be the most logical choice, since money talks and bullshit walks. Cancelling your subscription sends a message, while continuing to fork over cash and complain on some internet forum yields little beneficial results.(08-28-2015, 01:44 AM)Edda Wrote: If you don't, maybe you should actually stop playing, and not just because you disagree with content gating. Despite the amount of feedback the devs take into consideration from the community, ultimately FFXIV is a game made by and for Square Enix. The best way to let them know you are displeased with their decisions is to let them know on the forums and cancel your subscription. I see no merit in continuing to pay for a game you are so utterly unhappy with.Not the point on that - people were saying it was better to have a common ground of understanding. I pushed it to the point of ridiculousness.
If I didn't enjoy the game I'd have unsubbed a while ago and never looked back. I didn't like the gating but now that it's out I see they've actually made efforts to work with it enough that it mitigates a good portion of the problems I mentioned.
Like, if they decided to gate 4.0 with 3.x MSQ completion I'd have far less problems with it than I had with 3.0 being gated with 2.55 completion because we have precedence on how they'd handle it.
What I dislike is this argument that if you're not playing the game a certain way you should unsub and leave or just not get the game.
RE: 4.0 will not require 3.0 to be completed - Verad - 08-28-2015
I'm apathetic as to whether or not the content will be gated in future expansions, and will be basing my purchasing decisions on other criteria that will often seem shallow to more dedicated gamers.
Is anybody else going to do this?
RE: 4.0 will not require 3.0 to be completed - LiadansWhisper - 08-28-2015
(08-28-2015, 02:11 AM)Verad Wrote: I'm apathetic as to whether or not the content will be gated in future expansions, and will be basing my purchasing decisions on other criteria that will often seem shallow to more dedicated gamers.
Is anybody else going to do this?
Pretty much, yes. Â I'm not a fan of the gating myself, but if the game as a whole is appealing enough, I'll suck it up and play through it anyway.
RE: 4.0 will not require 3.0 to be completed - Caspar - 08-28-2015
I don't care if it's gated or not, because I clear everything before the expansion, so effectively, it never actually matters.
I pay for the game, so I'm certainly not going to waste my money not finishing it. That's my philosophy on it, at least.
RE: 4.0 will not require 3.0 to be completed - I'nhalki - 08-28-2015
Personally, I enjoy the gating. As someone who started playing around a week before Heavensward launch, sure it was tough to see everyone so very far ahead of me, but I was never lonely for long. Lots of people seemed to be in the same boat, and it provided a good way to learn my job to a level that made me competent--not just for the content, but for my senior players.Â
This game, no matter how well I seem to think I know my job, requires a huge amount of situational awareness and positional practice that I am amazed with. When I run content I ran only a month ago it feels a thousand times easier--not just in how my better gear affects my play, but in how my overall ability to predict, execute and move as my jobs has improved through the design of the content. It really is humbling to feel just how easy something has become and how bad you must have seemed to other players when you began! It amazes me how kind and patient 99% of my fellow players have been while I've learned my jobs.Â
This community comes out of the slow and arduous process of mastery this game requires. For every elitist there have got to be ten awesome people who are just as good but so humble and kind because they know that they started in your position. I feel like this amazing community would be damaged if new players could somehow take a shortcut in to new content and we would mess up the skill development curve.Â
I think this philosophy and approach is a big part of why the game succeeds as is does. It would be a bit sad to lose the continuity! At the same time, I have faith that the team would do it wisely. There are, after all, plenty of ways to circumvent challenging yourself via FATE farming or other methods. I simply worry that ungating content would make some players be a bit meaner or exacerbate the elitism situation towards new players due to a perception that they haven't 'earned' their place.
RE: 4.0 will not require 3.0 to be completed - Oli! - 08-28-2015
(08-28-2015, 02:27 AM)Caspar Wrote: I don't care if it's gated or not, because I clear everything before the expansion, so effectively, it never actually matters.
I pay for the game, so I'm certainly not going to waste my money not finishing it. That's my philosophy on it, at least.
That may be the case, but part of the point that's been raised previously is that this is less for people like you and others that have finished the content already, and more for people that are only just starting to play the game.
If you go and buy 4.0's xpac so you can play with your friends in the shiny new zones, it's going to seem like a bit of a waste of time to sit through two or three years worth of content that you have no interest in to get here. It takes a lot of time, and it may not make for the most enjoyable experience either.
Personally I don't see any harm in giving people the option to skip to the things that they want to do, so it's sort of a non-issue for me.
RE: 4.0 will not require 3.0 to be completed - LiadansWhisper - 08-28-2015
(08-28-2015, 02:27 AM)Caspar Wrote: I don't care if it's gated or not, because I clear everything before the expansion, so effectively, it never actually matters.
I pay for the game, so I'm certainly not going to waste my money not finishing it. That's my philosophy on it, at least.
I'm somewhat concerned it will become really overwhelming for new players, though.
RE: 4.0 will not require 3.0 to be completed - V'aleera - 08-28-2015
Frankly, new players are not the ones going to have the most issue with gating. The primary complaint about gating is that it keeps you from new things. To a new player, the entire game is new; they aren't gated from anything.
If you look at many of the gating critic threads, the primary players that are negatively effected are old players who left in the middle, not new players just coming in. These players left, in many cases, because they did not enjoy the content when it was current and are aggravated at having to play through it anyway and from behind.