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Elitism and You: An Attempt at Polite Discourse: ilvl125+ Only, Must Link Achievement - Printable Version

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+--- Thread: Elitism and You: An Attempt at Polite Discourse: ilvl125+ Only, Must Link Achievement (/showthread.php?tid=10492)

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RE: Elitism and You: An Attempt at Polite Discourse: ilvl125+ Only, Must Link Achievement - ChewableMorphine - 03-09-2015

(03-09-2015, 09:05 PM)allgivenover Wrote:
(03-09-2015, 09:01 PM)Flynt The Hyena Wrote:
Difficult =/= Tedious

[Image: 7sNFK0w.jpg]

420praiseit

So.. you understand where I'm coming from perfectly? I don't understand the point of your image response. Dark Souls is a game that many consider too much "work" and dismiss it because games are "supposed to be fun". The difficulty is the fun, you clearly get it if you play/enjoy Dark Souls.

Hours of grinding FATEs =/= Getting good at the game

Grinding for Alexandrite =/= Getting good

Uninteresting and boring objectives =/= Getting good at the game

Dark Souls is a terrible comparison to XIV grinding. DS you get good, you don't grind. Even then, you're probably PvPing, which requires you to get good. tl;dr gitgud.
But you have a point. Sorta. People who claim DS is work are bad at the game. Anybody can do a shitload of FATEs and maps (albeit with a medic). Losing to Asylum Demon because he's "too hard" is you being bad. Learn to get good. DS isn't even that hard.


RE: Elitism and You: An Attempt at Polite Discourse: ilvl125+ Only, Must Link Achievement - allgivenover - 03-09-2015

(03-09-2015, 09:12 PM)Verad Wrote:
(03-09-2015, 09:11 PM)allgivenover Wrote: Almost everything is infantile compared to Dark Souls. And seriously it's just a funny comic, I wouldn't over think it.

It's okay to like overrated games. You don't need to dismiss others because of that.

I'm not? I was responding to dismissing some styles of gaming as "work".

You know what, forget it. All of your posts lately towards me have just been designed to rankle and I don't really get why as I haven't done anything to you. It's a shame because you're honestly the only decent RPer I've had the joy of running into the past several months. But if you dislike me, you dislike me, and there's nothing I can do about it. Just block me here if I bother you so much.

RE: Elitism and You: An Attempt at Polite Discourse: ilvl125+ Only, Must Link Achievement - Cato - 03-09-2015

At the end of the day people have different tastes. Expecting everybody to get along and be tolerant of each other just isn't something that's going to realistically happen. The best thing to do is carve out a little niche within the community and expand one's social circle to accommodate those whose role-play aligns with what one seeks.

I do think threads like this serve an excellent purpose though. Letting people vent and put their opinion out there is important, especially when the community boasts all sorts of different people from all sorts of different backgrounds.

To play devil's advocate, though? Someone being an elitist in role-play doesn't make them a horrible person. Truth be told? Most of the nasty sniping I see in this community comes from those who are supposedly against elitism.

RE: Elitism and You: An Attempt at Polite Discourse: ilvl125+ Only, Must Link Achievement - Warren Castille - 03-09-2015

It's like everyone saw Flynt's first post and missed the entire conversation he and I had as a result of it on the following page.

RE: Elitism and You: An Attempt at Polite Discourse: ilvl125+ Only, Must Link Achievement - allgivenover - 03-09-2015

(03-09-2015, 09:14 PM)Flynt The Hyena Wrote:
Hours of grinding FATEs =/= Getting good at the game

Grinding for Alexandrite =/= Getting good

Uninteresting and boring objectives =/= Getting good at the game

Dark Souls is a terrible comparison to XIV grinding. DS you get good, you don't grind. Even then, you're probably PvPing, which requires you to get good. tl;dr gitgud.
But you have a point. Sorta. People who claim DS is work are bad at the game. Anybody can do a shitload of FATEs and maps (albeit with a medic). Losing to Asylum Demon because he's "too hard" is you being bad. Learn to get good. DS isn't even that hard.

That's the thing though, tedium is its own sort of difficulty, and some people honestly like a grind. It's entirely up to preference. People who claim DaS is work are usually bad because the work you put into it to get good isn't fun for them like it was fun for you and me, so they never do it.

For me, relic stopped when I hit the book grind and had to wait two hours for a FATE to spawn. I had much more fun wiping in Coil than waiting on FATEs, but for some people that waiting on FATEs is fun and "work" in a way that they enjoy, and it's ok for them to feel pride in finishing that achievement.

There are many people who are well... not very good or inclined towards defeating tough mechanics like Dark Souls or Coil of Bahamut. Many, many players just don't have the traits geared for succeeding in those game environments, and that's ok. Those gamers deserve to feel accomplished in the way they prefer, without anyone dismissing that enjoyment as not valid because it's "not the way games are supposed to be".

I get you entirely, I just think you came into the thread throwing haymakers and no one was really understanding why you seemed to be bashing on relic.

RE: Elitism and You: An Attempt at Polite Discourse: ilvl125+ Only, Must Link Achievement - allgivenover - 03-09-2015

(03-09-2015, 09:19 PM)Warren Castille Wrote: It's like everyone saw Flynt's first post and missed the entire conversation he and I had as a result of it on the following page.

I actually started my post and was delayed in finishing it, so I didn't see the rest. >.>;

RE: Elitism and You: An Attempt at Polite Discourse: ilvl125+ Only, Must Link Achievement - ChewableMorphine - 03-09-2015

(03-09-2015, 09:19 PM)Warren Castille Wrote: It's like everyone saw Flynt's first post and missed the entire conversation he and I had as a result of it on the following page.

[Image: YMsZL5I.jpg]


RE: Elitism and You: An Attempt at Polite Discourse: ilvl125+ Only, Must Link Achievement - ChewableMorphine - 03-09-2015

(03-09-2015, 09:25 PM)allgivenover Wrote:
(03-09-2015, 09:14 PM)Flynt The Hyena Wrote: -fart-

There are many people who are well... not very good or inclined towards defeating tough mechanics like Dark Souls or Coil of Bahamut. Many, many players just don't have the traits geared for succeeding in those game environments, and that's ok.

HE GETS IT

RE: Elitism and You: An Attempt at Polite Discourse: ilvl125+ Only, Must Link Achievement - Flashhelix - 03-09-2015

elitism in rp is good

RE: Elitism and You: An Attempt at Polite Discourse: ilvl125+ Only, Must Link Achievement - Harmonixer - 03-09-2015

There's a ton of hand holding in Dark Souls that isn't readily apparent to players who aren't paying attention. Pyromancy, heavy armors that raise your mitigation levels insanely high, buffs that let you 1 shot shield poke mobs, plenty of easy methods for 'difficult' bosses. The charm of the game from it's hands off storytelling and methods of teaching a player through pure gameplay. It's difficulty is almost gone once you grasp certain concepts.

I'd argue that it's more 'difficult' to learn an MMO because you can't learn certain things from just the game alone. You need to talk to other players and test yourself repeatedly in combat environments, along with a steady increase in gear and level is an introduction to other things. In most MMOs, you never get a complete character until you reach cap. In games like Dark Souls, you can beat the game with literally nothing but a wooden club equipped and never need to heal once.

That being said, I still don't find it excusable for players in MMOs to disregard others and do the standard, stand in the fire and then blame the healer shit that still persists. Understand that you are playing in a team based environment and every mistake you make without learning from, makes it more difficult for others to progress. While is possible to outgear certain mechanics, it is not possible to survive all of them and continue to be successful. We can cite examples and argue about that all we want, but until every player is decked in the best gear ever regardless of how much time they might have dedicated regardless of how skilled they might be, but that's something else entirely.

I think I'm somewhat of an elitist, but in the sense that I expect my fellow players to be able to communicate to me their shortcomings if they are aware of them and a willingness to learn if presented with criticism in efforts to better themselves for the benefit of smoother play in groups. Be ready to pull your weight, realize you aren't just wasting your own time, that you are also wasting others. Especially when it comes to MMOs. Chances are if you are playing one, you have a way to research things in some way, and if you don't you certainly can ask other players and people like myself are more than happy to take time to explain things and help others. I love helping people, I can't stand people who expect me to do the work for them however.

Earlier today, I wanted to respond to posts in particular about RP elitisim. Thinking it over for the better part of the day, I think it's better that I simply leave it as this, which I've said a few times here before. You should be able to enjoy yourself however you feel fit so long as you don't do it at the expense of others and should no way feel entitled to anything in particular. You are sharing a virtual space with real, living breathing humans and it's always better to be open minded than it is to shut yourself further in.

Also, cocks.

RE: Elitism and You: An Attempt at Polite Discourse: ilvl125+ Only, Must Link Achievement - OverlordOutpost - 03-10-2015

For the Zeta thing, I honestly don't get it.  To me, that's a lot of time that I could've spent anywhere else doing things that I found more fun, instead of grinding for a thing that offers a ephemeral fleeting advantage.

And it's okay I don't get it.  Why?  Because my idea of fun is opening up a spread sheet, detailing out the schedules of 15 different trains, and moving coal from a mine to a power plant in some Sim game.

I'm okay with the fact that some people find things I won't find fun, and even bragworthy.  Because they're gonna brag about the hours they threw into a far more shinier weapon, just like I'd love to brag about how mathematically efficient my train routing system is and how my signals work, and just how absolutely amazing and cost effective the SH "125" Diesel Engine is in terms of sheer horse-power is.  And to them, I'll be someone who puts way to much work into a fake train game.

Ultimately, in both cases, it's pretty shitty if I brag specifically to bring someone else down, you Floss "47" using peasants.

--

In terms of knowing your job in the game, know your damned job. You're not disappointing yourself; you're wasting the time of three other people that are relying on you not making Eos tank (somehow) in a level 50 dungeon.

RE: Elitism and You - Gone. - 03-10-2015

Demon's Souls was better, anyway.

This thread has also done a good job of proving elitism is still alive and well in MMOs, though I must confess I expected better coming from roleplayers. Call it naive if you want, but I'm still disappointed either way.

RE: Elitism and You: An Attempt at Polite Discourse: ilvl125+ Only, Must Link Achievement - OverlordOutpost - 03-10-2015

(03-10-2015, 12:09 AM)hauntmedoitagain Wrote: Demon's Souls was better, anyway.

This thread has also done a good job of proving elitism is still alive and well in MMOs, though I must confess I expected better coming from roleplayers. Call it naive if you want, but I'm still disappointed either way.
Being a roleplayer doesn't excuse us from being humans. Being aware of your flaws and trying to avoid them hurting others is far more mature then denying they exist to begin with.

RE: Elitism and You: An Attempt at Polite Discourse: ilvl125+ Only, Must Link Achievement - Kage - 03-10-2015

(03-09-2015, 07:08 PM)Sastra Wrote: If it helps, I quite like your name because it means cake in my native tongue and cake is the best :3

MY NAME MEANS CAKE? THIS IS SO MUCH BETTER THAN THE LANGUAGE I USED IT FROM

RE: Elitism and You: An Attempt at Polite Discourse: ilvl125+ Only, Must Link Achievement - Flashhelix - 03-10-2015

(03-10-2015, 12:09 AM)hauntmedoitagain Wrote: elitism is still alive and well in MMOs

Thank god