(07-20-2015, 06:27 AM)Lililove Wrote: My opinion? 

Shouldn't matter if the person is glamoured or has taken a fantasia. The end result is the same: appearances get changed. If the end result gets accepted why should the means matter?

Thats like me getting mad at restaurant for giving me the exact same burger that looks and tastes the same but is prepared with a different cooking method each time. Still tastes good. End result is the same. Num.

(07-20-2015, 06:27 AM)Lililove Wrote: My opinion? 

Shouldn't matter if the person is glamoured or has taken a fantasia. The end result is the same: appearances get changed. If the end result gets accepted why should the means matter?

Thats like me getting mad at restaurant for giving me the exact same burger that looks and tastes the same but is prepared with a different cooking method each time. Still tastes good. End result is the same. Num.

(07-20-2015, 06:27 AM)Lililove Wrote: My opinion? 

Shouldn't matter if the person is glamoured or has taken a fantasia. The end result is the same: appearances get changed. If the end result gets accepted why should the means matter?

Thats like me getting mad at restaurant for giving me the exact same burger that looks and tastes the same but is prepared with a different cooking method each time. Still tastes good. End result is the same. Num.

(07-20-2015, 01:06 PM)Tumensuns Wrote:

(07-20-2015, 06:27 AM)Lililove Wrote: My opinion? 

Shouldn't matter if the person is glamoured or has taken a fantasia. The end result is the same: appearances get changed. If the end result gets accepted why should the means matter?

Thats like me getting mad at restaurant for giving me the exact same burger that looks and tastes the same but is prepared with a different cooking method each time. Still tastes good. End result is the same. Num.

I think it'd be more like ordering a hamburger and being given a salad instead, but told it's a hamburger and need to address it as hamburger from now on, or I'm being a meany poopy-face.

(07-20-2015, 01:22 PM)Shoshopu Wrote:

(07-20-2015, 01:06 PM)Tumensuns Wrote:

(07-20-2015, 06:27 AM)Lililove Wrote: My opinion? 

Shouldn't matter if the person is glamoured or has taken a fantasia. The end result is the same: appearances get changed. If the end result gets accepted why should the means matter?

Thats like me getting mad at restaurant for giving me the exact same burger that looks and tastes the same but is prepared with a different cooking method each time. Still tastes good. End result is the same. Num.

I think it'd be more like ordering a hamburger and being given a salad instead, but told it's a hamburger and need to address it as hamburger from now on, or I'm being a meany poopy-face.

How's that analogy work? You don't "order" other peoples' characters to be a certain thing, in advance. If you're just seeing them for the first time, why does it matter to you (or your character) what their past is, is the point Lili is trying to make, I think.

I believe Lili's analogy is assuming you've never met the character before. Is yours assuming you know the character already? Like they're already in your RP circle and they've changed? Because that's certainly not going to be true of every character yours will meet who's had a fantasia affect their life (if in fact they meet one at all!)

I guess I'm arguing semantics now but confusing analogies are a pet peeve of mine in discussions like this :B

(07-20-2015, 02:20 PM)Tumensuns Wrote: I think you're over thinking it. 

I'm used to seeing hamburger as he is, a beef patty between bread, but now hamburger is a bunch of green stuff, and telling me to call him hamburger because reasons.

(07-20-2015, 02:27 PM)Shoshopu Wrote:

(07-20-2015, 02:20 PM)Tumensuns Wrote: I think you're over thinking it. 

I'm used to seeing hamburger as he is, a beef patty between bread, but now hamburger is a bunch of green stuff, and telling me to call him hamburger because reasons.

Then I repeat again, since your analogy (which you insisted was more true to actuality than the other one you originally quoted) does indeed assume you've met the character before, and now they're suddenly different: That's not going to be true of every Fantasia'd character you meet, unless you've literally met every Fantasia'd character ever. Some of them you might not even know that's how they got to where they are, so does that really affect you at all? Or do you only care about Fantasia usage when it's affected your personal circle?

(07-20-2015, 02:27 PM)Shoshopu Wrote: Some of them you might not even know that's how they got to where they are, so does that really affect you at all? Or do you only care about Fantasia usage when it's affected your personal circle?

(07-20-2015, 02:45 PM)Tumensuns Wrote: That'd be assuming I know said hamburger, before they suddenly were a salad.

Now, if a salad walked up to me and said "hey at one point I was a hamburger", I'm probably going to think they're crazy.

Which ICly, I have done in the past to people who do this, and then they get mad at me OOCly because I'm not forcing my character to accept the absurd notion that this bowl of green lettuce and red tomatoes was once a juicy meat patty between two toasty buns.

(07-20-2015, 02:57 PM)Lilia Lia Wrote:

(07-20-2015, 02:27 PM)Shoshopu Wrote: Some of them you might not even know that's how they got to where they are, so does that really affect you at all? Or do you only care about Fantasia usage when it's affected your personal circle?

I should mention that a lot of players treat their IC Fantasia as a significant part of their character's history.  You don't find out about it right away but as you get to know them they come out with it, or a friend of theirs casually says something like "that was back when he was a Lalafell" and all of a sudden you have to respond to this.  The reason it's immersion breaking is because your character is being asked to accept something that you personally don't think is plausible from a lore perspective.  It'd be like if someone tried to pretend that the Calamity never happened, or wanted to tell you that they were the Warrior of Light, or that they are the blood descendent of Bahamut. 

It's annoying for the same reason that Godmodding is annoying.  A person is taking their RP out of the territory of "My character says or does this," and into the territory of "I am telling you that this is how the world works."  All of a sudden you can't really RP with each other because you're both playing by different rules.  If you tell me that your character can fly by flapping his arms really fast, and my character expresses disbelief, and then you proceed to emote your character flying around the sky with the greatest of ease, then I think I'm justified in finding that obnoxious.  My character, however, would find it fascinating and would tell everyone she knew about it.  I don't really want to have to do this, so I have to break character and treat it as mundane or uninteresting in order to continue to RP with that person about things other than their magical flying power.

(07-20-2015, 02:44 PM)Graeham Wrote: I'm a little confused as to what, exactly, is actually being discussed at this point. It shouldn't be terribly difficult for people to accept that when someone chooses to embrace a particularly controversial storytelling device then not everybody is going to smile and accept it readily.

Nobody is demanding that people stop doing it. They're simply explaining why they, themselves, don't really have any interest in going along with it.

I don't think there's much to be accomplished from reading too deeply into analogies especially when different people can walk away with completely different interpretations.