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+--- Thread: God mode and metagaming (/showthread.php?tid=114)
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Re: God mode and metagaming - Varov - 05-10-2010
As a note, I would put my vote on Riki's definition and I'd like to add something to the whole mess... One, sorry Dy. I didn't know if my post seemed really forward, but I tend to like pouring water in the glass. If it stays there, it's a good glass, if it wets the carpet, the glass has a hole and needs to be fixed or thrown out.
Anyway, in the same way that a court would deal with it (I'll expound, if it seems like first amendment rights were violated and free speech is shot down, it has to go through a test called "Strict Scrutiny of the law" for content-neutrality and viewpoint-discrimination), we should have a test of strict-scrutiny that works exactly the same for every situation whereupon the situation is tested by a small voting body and decided as god-mode or not. It sounds more drawn out than it is, and I mean this more for big "Waa-waa" issues where people begin to get crappy. It works for the Supreme Court of the US and for the ICJ - it should work for us
Re: God mode and metagaming - Tyriont - 05-11-2010
Varov Wrote:If it stays there, it's a good glass, if it wets the carpet, the glass has a hole and needs to be fixed or thrown out.
In the case of the latter...do you rub the "nose" of the offending glass in it?
Re: God mode and metagaming - Varov - 05-11-2010
Oh heavens no. We just take it out back with the .22 like Old Yeller.
Re: God mode and metagaming - Blade - 05-11-2010
Tyriont Wrote:To call a character lying Godmoding is going too far, I feel...which is the impression I get from the previous statement. It also starts down the slippery slope which I'm sure many of us have seen before that results in more "sensitive" individuals crying "Godmode!" whenever anything they don't like happens regardless of whether it truly fits the definition or not.Yeah, lying shouldn't be godmoding, but I think the character must have to have the intent to lie. For example, for the example given, if APM insults UG's feet stink, and APM expected them to stink when they don't, APM shouldn't explain it as a lie. In a way that is, first and foremost, a minor retcon that could've been avoided, and secondly, it makes APM's character perceived in a negative way they might not have intended for (a liar). An example of an 'appropriate' way to lie would be to have APM--in an effort to specifically slander UG-- spread negative rumors about UG's hygiene and claim his feet stink in public.
Also, I request that when this gets officially written up we utilize AbsurdlyPowerfulMan and UnfortunateGuy for examples as they amuse me greatly.
Re: God mode and metagaming - Eva - 05-11-2010
I tend to look at it more like beta-testing, where the goal is to "break" the metaphoric glass or otherwise poke holes into it so that they may be patched up prior to drinking (whiskey in mouth > whiskey on floor). I think 6-7 years of Crystalline management has made me cynical and I tend to deal a lot with 'worst case what-if scenarios' as evidenced by many of the earlier posts I made on this forum whereby Tsumi and others often had to smack me down by assuring me that not everyone behaves like a toddler. XD
The above example, as I already agreed, is not godmode but rather an example of how assumption or miscommunication could potentially arise and cause OOC conflict, bitterness, and generally has the capacity to ruin one or more persons' enjoyment of the game. Not saying this is the norm, or that it would even happen often. Just saying it's possible, and while a bit of a tangent, it might be worth thinking about.
Also, poking holes in the glass is a bit different than blowing holes into poor Ol' Yeller, isn't it?
Re: God mode and metagaming - Rikitiki - 05-11-2010
Yeah, as has been said, APM is a lying b-- err... fatherless child. That's not enough to demonstrate god-moding. If people couldn't lie, how could we have bad guys? I mean, that's the first thing you do on the road to being bad. The devious plotting of the downfall of known civilization comes later.
That being said, it's true that there are people who, as Kes said, behave like toddlers and cry "Godmode!" every time a wolf shows up and starts eating their sheep. These are generally the guys who deliberately break the rules, get thrown out, and then tell anyone they can find that they didn't break the rules and were unfairly discriminated against. (Lawyers in sheep's clothing?)
Anyway, I tend to agree with Varov about the strict-scrutiny thing, but there are ... opposing extremes.
The rules shouldn't be so strict that there is no room for discretion. If someone is obviously causing problems, you shouldn't have to wait for five notarized depositions from three witnesses and a game master and a majority vote of both the House and the Senate in order to do something about it.
On the other hand, it's not very polite to say "The council has the right to suspend or terminate your membership at any time and for any reason, and your acceptance of membership constitutes acknowledgment and acceptance of that right". Not everyone believes in the "benevolent dictatorship" model. :joker:
There is a middle ground, somewhere.... right? :study:
P.S. --
Tyriont Wrote:Also, I request that when this gets officially written up we utilize AbsurdlyPowerfulMan and UnfortunateGuy for examples as they amuse me greatly.
Well, Castiel did ask for vivid examples. I'm like Vivid Example Warehouse over here.
Re: God mode and metagaming - Kylin - 05-12-2010
We don't need to really concern ourselves so much with enforcement. The only enforcement the RPC will be capable of doing is on these forums. Individual guilds will have their own definitions most likely and enforce them their own way.
Anywho, if anyone wishes to create/nominate a definition, please post it in its complete form in quotes or something.
Re: God mode and metagaming - Eva - 05-12-2010
Riki's post seems most comprehensive and contains specific examples. I'd see if he would like to amend anything that was included in the couple of posts after his and then just roll with that.
Re: God mode and metagaming - Zhavi - 05-12-2010
I seem to be agreeing with Riki a lot.
Re: God mode and metagaming - Nanapariri - 05-12-2010
I do like Rikki's post with the examples (maybe sans the stinky feet one) accept it really only addresses God Mode.
I vote use Eth's defintion for God Mode with Riki's examples without the stinky feet one. My definition and example plus one of Kes's for metagame.
Re: God mode and metagaming - Kylin - 05-13-2010
Okay, let me see if I have this right so far. Please correct me if I'm missing anything. These are the definitions nominated for a vote so far (I added one of my own for each).
God mode (Option 1):
Quote:God-mode (verb) (hyphen optional): To perform In-Character (IC), or attempt to perform IC, actions which are clearly beyond the power of any player character.
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Meet our exemplars, AbsurdlyPowerfulMan, or APM, and UnfortunateGuy, or UG. That pretty much tells you all you need to know about them.
Example1: AbsurdlyPowerfulMan wiggles his pinky finger, causing a flaming crack to open under UnfortunateGuy's feet and convey him directly to a firey death at the planet's core.
(APM is clearly god-moding. There is simply no means within the game for any player character to do that under any circumstances. And what if the world doesn't actually *have* a flaming core?)
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Example2: AbsurdlyPowerfulMan gestures with his right thumb, causing a bolt of lightning to strike UnfortunateGuy and fry him to a crisp.
(Still godmode. APM may very well be a Conjurer capable of tossing lightning bolts around, but UG might very well have survived the blast, depending upon how tough he is, or how resistant he is to lightning. Or maybe UG does, in fact, have tremendously fast reflexes that might allow him to dodge the bolt!)
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Example3: AbsurdlyPowerfulMan raises an eyebrow, causing everyone within ten yards to think that UnfortunateGuy has stinky feet.
(Yep, godmode again. APM cannot dictate what other people think or feel. Whether or not UG's feet actually do stink is, of course, another matter entirely.)
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Example4: AbsurdlyPowerfulMan waggles his fingers, causing a bolt of lightning to streak forth in UnfortunateGuy's direction.
(Not godmode! At least, not if APM can actually toss a Thunder spell.)
God mode (Option 2):
Quote:God mode is the tendency to roleplay someone else's character or to say their lines for them. When RPing, one should act and answer for themself, and not for the others they are RPing with. It can sometimes be hard, a player may have an idea of where they would like the RP to follow, however, this is the beauty of RPing. One must adapt to whatever comes, whether it was what they were expecting or not.
+ Riki’s examples.
God mode (Option 3):
Quote:The act of making one’s character beyond that of the norm in a way that promotes invincibility, immortality, extreme influence, or unnatural powers that interfere with the natural laws of Hydaelyn.
God mode is usually a problem that comes up during role-play conflict, though it appears elsewhere in the role-playing world as well. Do not role-play yourself as the spawn or incarnation of a god. That is god mode. Do not role-play yourself as a being from another world with the power to level cities. That is god mode. Do not role-play yourself as a prince with supreme influence over the nation leaders and their subjects. That is god mode. Do not role-play yourself as being so powerful that you can dodge any and every attack thrown at you constantly. That is god mode. You get the picture, right?
+Riki’s examples.
Metagaming (Option 1):
Quote:Meta-gaming is a character knowing something IC that clearly could not be known outside of an OOC source. This often happens when an RPer writes an IC Journal or a story of something their character did alone for the group to read but never intended it to be OOC knowledge. For example:
Player A is always kind to Player B IC.
Player B thinks Player A is their friend IC.
Player A writes in their character's IC private journal he in reality hates Player B.
Player B reads this OOC and IC starts saying Player A hates them though Player A is still treating them the same way like they like them.
+ one of Kes’s examples.
Metagaming (Option 2):
Quote:Metagaming refers to knowing something OOC and applying it as IC knowledge without any real logical explanation. When stories are posted on the forums, they are all considered OOC knowledge unless somehow specified otherwise (such as a newspaper clipping). Don’t use OOC tools to give knowledge to your character.
+Riki’s examples.
If you wish to add any more definitions or modify current ones, please do so now. I'm hoping to get the polls up within a few days.