+- Hydaelyn Role-Players (https://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/mybb18)
+-- Forum: Community (https://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/mybb18/forumdisplay.php?fid=8)
+--- Forum: RP Discussion (https://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/mybb18/forumdisplay.php?fid=13)
+--- Thread: Gun blades (/showthread.php?tid=11552)
RE: Gun blades - OttoVann - 05-11-2015
(05-11-2015, 04:21 PM)Warren Castille Wrote: I know we're discounting science, but wouldn't that design cause damage to your wrists when firing? You've got no real brace for it like you would with an actual pistol.
* Warren Castille doesn't know jack about guns outside of houses full of the dead and also crises involving time.
Recoil is mostly determined by mass and the size of the firearm, as well as caliber of the cartridge. If say, squalls prototypical gunblade was chambered in .454 there would be recoil there is no doubt, but it wouldn't go flying out of your hand or something. Pocket pistols can hurt people who limp-wrist them when they shoot due to having nothing to absorb the shock of the bullet firing except the wrist.
I can imagine if someone swings a heavy sword around for a while, they've got the fortitude in their arm needed to fire a 'gun' with an awkward handle and stock to hold onto.
RE: Gun blades - Marisa - 05-11-2015
(05-11-2015, 06:33 AM)Nako Wrote:Napoleonic warfare is kind of a passion of mine. Now, you're sort of right. When soldiers committed to hand-to-hand, they did so in mass, and it was pretty glorious. However, a bayonet skirmish was very rare, is the thing. It was hard to get men to commit to steel (having your soldiers straight up just walk off the battlefield was a huge problem back then so commanders had to know their limits) and when they did, the opposing army would typically just fall back until you stopped chasing them. Events where you'd charge and they'd stand to fight you were pretty rare compared to today. The reason you see it happening every single battle in movies and whatnot is because those battles were the ones everyone remembers (because a proper steel-on-steel battle is crazy epic)Â(05-11-2015, 06:17 AM)Ryoko Wrote:by last few centuries, how far back are you going? cause I am fairly certain Hand to Hand was far more prevalent in the Napoleonic wars, and that was only 200ish years ago.(05-11-2015, 02:59 AM)Aaron Wrote:Actually, hand-to-hand combat happens far more today than it has any other time in the last few centuries. Because today's conflicts are almost entirely urban, soldiers tend to get up close and personal with enemies. However, where the gun-sword was quickly determined to be stupid, the gun-spear is one of the most effective weapons ever created.ÂWell they did actually exist and were used to kill things like wounded boar.Â
I honestly think they were abandoned because in the end, why fight with a gunblades when you got a M16? Rather than it being inefficient. In war time today not many people are gonna go swordfight over having a machine gun.
Also known as the bayonet, this weapon is so effective that it will probably stick around long enough to be used in wars on other planets.
![[Image: Bayonet-Assault-Course.jpg]](http://weaponsman.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Bayonet-Assault-Course.jpg)
What's funny is that typically whichever army decided to charge first was the army that won, but rallying your troops to do so was damn near-impossible. Stranger still, you'd actually have fewer casualties fighting steel on steel. Stab-wounds are relatively easy to recover from. Musket balls are almost always a death sentence. Still, the psychological effect of being inches away from your enemy was too great for most.Â
So yeah, modern combat has fewer people doing the stabbing, but it happens way more often.
RE: Gun blades - Khadan - 05-12-2015
There's a few points I want to address here and yes I'm going to engage in the whole 'Basing my fantasy off of RL concepts' thought crime (which I might also address if I can be arsed).
The first thing is "Do gun blades exist and are they functional in FF14", obviously yes, the Garlean Empire is the go-to for this in general. On that topic, though, I'd point out that the development of such things as well as all their magitek advances have come about as a direct result of not having ready access to Aether; i.e. they needed to level the playing field since Aether is kind of a big deal. It literally allows one person to act as a walking artillery emplacement, field surgeon, bulwark, building demolishing with fists person, or leaping direct strike attacker. It is crazy powerful and crazy advantageous, hence why the Garleans conscript as many Eorzeans as they can.
On the point of technology, you develop technology to make up for societal problems such as sanitation, medicine, construction, and so on. When those societal problems don't exist because you have 'magic' to take care of many problems for you then technological advancement almost by definition would take a backseat; why would you wish to solve a problem that no one has? Garleans have no magic but through 'magitek' they can solve most of their problems.
Do guns exist in Eorzea? Of course. You see rifle racks all over in Limsa Lominsa as well as people in the Marauder's guild practicing with what look like black powder pistols (despite the rifles looking like bolt action magazine-loaded rifles...). As was as Merlwyb who uses a pair of double-barreled pistols that she can apparently rapid fire.
So why are gunblades not more prevalent in both the Garlean ranks (you only ever see a few people actually using them and even their robots barely use guns) and in Eorzea because if it's such an obvious advantage it would overtake modern 'fantasy' weaponry just as it did in the real world; the advent of black powder and cannons/rifles completely changed how war was fought. Well that's a pretty easy explanation, believe it or not. The answer is still -Aether-. This stuff allows Eorzeans to be on par with guns and artillery which, while still devestating, barely puts them on even ground with your average Eorzean fighter who can run faster, hit harder, heal quicker, shrug of damage better, and do any number of things better than their Garlean opponents.Â
I did state that I engage in the thought crime of basing my fantasy off of reality and so I have but I'll go further. Medieval armor, for example, was actually really poor at stopping black powder weaponry. It was great at stopping hand weapons, yes, save for specific weapons meant to mess up someone in armor (like a warhammer or mace) yet somehow Eorzeans still manage to stand up against their weapons. IRL a gun would make short work of someone in a suit of plate, in Eorzea through various quest text and so on you see blurbs of Paladins using aether to augment their strikes as well as their defenses which seems to indicate that the aforementioned 'plot armor' being able to stop bullets is now a reality.Â
Also quick note: you only see Garleans of 'rank' using any kind of projectile weaponry which might indicate the gun blade to be a symbol of rank or status while other forms of projectile weaponry are modified for the individual, also of suitable rank. Normally though you wouldn't attach a gun to a blade, you would just carry a sword and a gun as they serve two entirely different roles and are made in two entirely different ways with entirely different processes.Â
tl;dr if guns exist it stands to reason that they would dominate the battlefield unless something else were being used that was just as effective if not more effective: i.e. Aether-enhanced soldiers.
Probably have more on this later as really the advent of firearms when confronted with something as ambiguously powerful as 'magic' is practically an entire anthropological and sociological essay by itself. Such are the things I think of, though. lol
RE: Gun blades - Kyrrae L'minia - 05-12-2015
I had a thought while keeping up with this thread. First point, someone pointed out that Garlemald developed their technology out of pressure to level the playing field between themselves and other nations, as they had no ability to use Aether. And someone else pointed out that we have only seen officers within the Garlean military use personal projectile weapons, questioning whether it's really a common weapon used within the Garlean military.
But haven't almost all of the soldiers we've seen so far been conscripts? We know this due the magical nature of their abilities, as well as their physiological makeup. So then it stands to reason that it is possible that the reason we haven't seen common firearm use by Garlean soldiers is simply because those soldiers didn't need them. Think about it, if you have a conscript with naturally powerful talents, equal or surpassing to the military strength of your technology, why would you waste the time and resources to teach them to use your advanced technology? I think of it as if I was training recruits who were X-mutants. Why would I teach them to fire an expensive M-16 when they can naturally use 'magic'.
Because of this theory, I suspect that when/if we get an expansion that takes us against the main Garlean force (remember, we've only seen a fraction of their military) we will see firearms used by the homeland pure blooded Garlean soldiers.
Thoughts?
RE: Gun blades - Chris Ganale - 05-12-2015
(05-12-2015, 03:42 PM)Kyrrae Lminia Wrote: expensive
(05-12-2015, 03:42 PM)Kyrrae Lminia Wrote: M-16
![[Image: 2725672-tumblr_m5f3awpbvd1r85wnvo1_500.png]](http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/6/64137/2725672-tumblr_m5f3awpbvd1r85wnvo1_500.png)
Sorry, Kyrrae, didn't mean to cut the legs out from under you, just that was my immediate reaction.
That aside, the logic there is valid, but I would also posit that they at least train their conscripts in the use of guns/gunblades. Even Chao, for all her prodigious magical and physical talent, is well aware that sometimes it pays to be able to quick-draw and put a .50 SAP-HE in somebody (not that I'm implying Garlemald has calibers and special ammunition like that).
Me, I would love to see that prevalence of guns when we go to kick over Garlemald. I'd rather be on the other side of the guns imbalance, but you get what you've got. Hell, Ghost would feel right at home.
RE: Gun blades - Khadan - 05-12-2015
(05-12-2015, 04:12 PM)Chris Ganale Wrote: Sorry, Kyrrae, didn't mean to cut the legs out from under you, just that was my immediate reaction.
That aside, the logic there is valid, but I would also posit that they at least train their conscripts in the use of guns/gunblades. Even Chao, for all her prodigious magical and physical talent, is well aware that sometimes it pays to be able to quick-draw and put a .50 SAP-HE in somebody (not that I'm implying Garlemald has calibers and special ammunition like that).
Me, I would love to see that prevalence of guns when we go to kick over Garlemald. I'd rather be on the other side of the guns imbalance, but you get what you've got. Hell, Ghost would feel right at home.
I would still go back to the whole notion of only seeing officers and high-ranking individuals with gunblades. As not every soldier has one it stands to reason that the common soldiery either wasn't allowed to train with them, wasn't able to due to limited quantity, or simply that they didn't need to.
I.e. it doesn't really make any sense to take a modern day Marine and rather then train him or her in marksmanship with a rifle and squad tactics to then say "oh by the way we're also going to train you to use a sword because... reasons!" It's generally better to play to a soldier's strengths, anyway. With the conscripts being primarily Eorzean it's likely that the idea of using a gun or a gunblade wasn't even something they considered or were ever considered for due to the lack of evidence of any prevalence whatsoever of the weapon in Eorzea.
If you want to say that your own character(s) is familiar with that kind of weaponry then that's of course just fine.
RE: Gun blades - Kyrrae L'minia - 05-12-2015
I had a feeling someone might make a poke at me for calling an M-16 expensive.
And yeah, I see your point Kayllen. Logically it wouldn't make sense. But hey, this is SE here, so for all we know we'll get to Garlemald and they'll be like, "Gunblades galore cause they're KOOL!". Only reason I bring that up as a possiblity is at PAX East, someone asked Yoshi-P about gunblades, and how it doesn't seem Machinist uses them, (echoing their disappointment) and he said something to the effect of, "Well, this isn't the only gun job we'll come out with, so don't give up hope."
RE: Gun blades - Khadan - 05-12-2015
(05-12-2015, 06:35 PM)Kyrrae L Wrote: I had a feeling someone might make a poke at me for calling an M-16 expensive.
And yeah, I see your point Kayllen. Logically it wouldn't make sense. But hey, this is SE here, so for all we know we'll get to Garlemald and they'll be like, "Gunblades galore cause they're KOOL!". Only reason I bring that up as a possiblity is at PAX East, someone asked Yoshi-P about gunblades, and how it doesn't seem Machinist uses them, (echoing their disappointment) and he said something to the effect of, "Well, this isn't the only gun job we'll come out with, so don't give up hope."
In before Gunadin.
RE: Gun blades - Raine - 05-12-2015
(05-12-2015, 06:40 PM)Kayllen Wrote:They'll call the Gunbladers "SeeD" >>(05-12-2015, 06:35 PM)Kyrrae L Wrote: I had a feeling someone might make a poke at me for calling an M-16 expensive.
And yeah, I see your point Kayllen. Logically it wouldn't make sense. But hey, this is SE here, so for all we know we'll get to Garlemald and they'll be like, "Gunblades galore cause they're KOOL!". Only reason I bring that up as a possiblity is at PAX East, someone asked Yoshi-P about gunblades, and how it doesn't seem Machinist uses them, (echoing their disappointment) and he said something to the effect of, "Well, this isn't the only gun job we'll come out with, so don't give up hope."
In before Gunadin.
RE: Gun blades - Aaron - 05-12-2015
(05-12-2015, 06:35 PM)Kyrrae L Wrote: I had a feeling someone might make a poke at me for calling an M-16 expensive.Bruh, id be all over a gunblade class.
And yeah, I see your point Kayllen. Logically it wouldn't make sense. But hey, this is SE here, so for all we know we'll get to Garlemald and they'll be like, "Gunblades galore cause they're KOOL!". Only reason I bring that up as a possiblity is at PAX East, someone asked Yoshi-P about gunblades, and how it doesn't seem Machinist uses them, (echoing their disappointment) and he said something to the effect of, "Well, this isn't the only gun job we'll come out with, so don't give up hope."
Ill take the animoo hate or whatever i wouldnt give two fucks lol
RE: Gun blades - Khadan - 05-12-2015
(05-12-2015, 06:46 PM)Raine Wrote:(05-12-2015, 06:40 PM)Kayllen Wrote:They'll call the Gunbladers "SeeD" >>(05-12-2015, 06:35 PM)Kyrrae L Wrote: I had a feeling someone might make a poke at me for calling an M-16 expensive.
And yeah, I see your point Kayllen. Logically it wouldn't make sense. But hey, this is SE here, so for all we know we'll get to Garlemald and they'll be like, "Gunblades galore cause they're KOOL!". Only reason I bring that up as a possiblity is at PAX East, someone asked Yoshi-P about gunblades, and how it doesn't seem Machinist uses them, (echoing their disappointment) and he said something to the effect of, "Well, this isn't the only gun job we'll come out with, so don't give up hope."
In before Gunadin.
I want to simultaneously high-five and strangle you for that LOL
RE: Gun blades - Raine - 05-12-2015
(05-12-2015, 06:52 PM)Kayllen Wrote:I made a frenemy!(05-12-2015, 06:46 PM)Raine Wrote:(05-12-2015, 06:40 PM)Kayllen Wrote:They'll call the Gunbladers "SeeD" >>(05-12-2015, 06:35 PM)Kyrrae L Wrote: I had a feeling someone might make a poke at me for calling an M-16 expensive.
And yeah, I see your point Kayllen. Logically it wouldn't make sense. But hey, this is SE here, so for all we know we'll get to Garlemald and they'll be like, "Gunblades galore cause they're KOOL!". Only reason I bring that up as a possiblity is at PAX East, someone asked Yoshi-P about gunblades, and how it doesn't seem Machinist uses them, (echoing their disappointment) and he said something to the effect of, "Well, this isn't the only gun job we'll come out with, so don't give up hope."
In before Gunadin.
I want to simultaneously high-five and strangle you for that LOL
 I honestly would like gunblades for use though, but I don't really see it happening anytime soon, they'd have to make all sorts of different movesets for close and mid-ranged attacks, and it'd be likely the close-ranged would outclass the mid-ranged, so everyone would just be swinging their swords.
RE: Gun blades - Chris Ganale - 05-12-2015
(05-12-2015, 06:35 PM)Kyrrae Lminia Wrote: this isn't the only gun job we'll come out with
-Spits drink-
...Go on.
RE: Gun blades - Aaron - 05-12-2015
Maybe the gunblades would have two forms like Cleric Stance.
Blade for dps, debuffing bullets or something for mid range.
RE: Gun blades - Raine - 05-12-2015
(05-12-2015, 07:02 PM)Aaron Wrote: Maybe the gunblades would have two forms like Cleric Stance.That's true, too. I've never really touched Healer or any type of magic class so I can't really say much on it.
Blade for dps, debuffing bullets or something for mid range.