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+--- Thread: Is this common for tanks? (/showthread.php?tid=11631)
Is this common for tanks? - Leomoon - 05-15-2015
So I have been leveling my healer to lvl 30 and I had to do dungeons of course and in one dungeon at lvl 28 I ran into a group where I noticed the tank had began taking large amounts of damage and I am not taking oh he drops to about 50% after I cast stone II for a while, no as soon as a fight with at lest a group of three his HP would drop at the start down to 45%. After a couple of pulls I checked his gear and he was a lvl 28 in lvl 20 gear (no not kidding all left gear was 20).
When I brought it up to are group both the DD defended the tank saying "Oh you just need a good weapon he is keeping agro!" and yet ow he did this was to spam Overpower while the ninja gave him extra TP nearly every fight. After a while I just dealt with it and around the second boss in the basement I said that I don't think the next one will go well with all the adds that spawn, and again the DD said it was fine because of his weapon (ignoring how fast his HP dropped in every fight) and then called me a keyboard warrior and told me to go off to reddit. No surprises I was right we whipped twice and with me healing a black mage and using Stone until my MP was drained we finished the encounter by the skin of are teeth.
So is it common for Tank to just have really shitty gear besides there weapon? When I leveled tank I made sure all my gear was topped out for my level so the healer would not have to worry too much on healing me, this guy didn't even have flash and I was chastised for that as well. I have leveled both Tanks and never seen this before I don't do lvl 50 content for my tanks but this just out right confused me on both the Tank and the defense the DD were doing on this guy.
RE: Is this common for tanks? - Warren Castille - 05-15-2015
So I have been leveling my tank to lvl 30 and I had to do dungeons of course and in one dungeon at lvl 28 I ran into a group where I noticed the healer had began letting me take large amounts of damage and I am not taking oh I drop to about 50% after they cast stone II for a while, no as soon as a fight with at lest a group of three my HP would drop at the start down to 45%. After a couple of pulls I checked his gear and he was a lvl 28 in lvl 20 gear (no not kidding all left gear was 20).
When I brought it up to are group both the DD defended the healer saying "Oh you just need a good weapon you are still alive!" and yet ow he did this was to spam Cure. After a while I just dealt with it and around the second boss in the basement I said that I don't think the next one will go well with all the adds that spawn, and again the DD said it was fine because of his weapon (ignoring how fast my HP dropped in every fight) and then called me a keyboard warrior and told me to go off to reddit. No surprises I was right we whipped twice and with me healing a black mage and using Stone until my MP was drained we finished the encounter by the skin of are teeth.
So is it common for Healer to just have really shitty gear besides there weapon? When I leveled healer I made sure all my gear was topped out for my level so the healer would not have to worry too much on surviving, this guy didn't even have swiftcast and I was chastised for that as well. I have leveled both healers and never seen this before I don't do lvl 50 content for my healers but this just out right confused me on both the healer and the defense the DD were doing on this guy.
RE: Is this common for tanks? - Unnamed Mercenary - 05-15-2015
It's more the player than the class.
I have a dirty habit of having 3-4 sets of "extra" gear at my level because I like to spiritbond while running leves/fates/dungeons. It helps being able to craft everything.
How many mobs the tank pulled and his use a cooldowns could have effected things too. It's not very uncommon for someone to have gear ~10 levels below the dungeon if it's their first time playing. But when stuff like that happens, the entire party needs to go slow.
...I do believe the tanks's weapon (especially for WAR) is the biggest factor for keeping enmity. ...but a dead tank can't tank so...
RE: Is this common for tanks? - Edda - 05-15-2015
Short answer: Yes.
Long answer: The gear someone has is dependent on how conscientious the player is. If someone is speed-leveling an alt class (common at this point in the game), or is simply a new player, it is not rare to encounter someone with gear that is far below their level. Not everyone will take the steps they should to ensure that they don't have a rough time as they level. For instance, I always updated my gear every 5 levels when I was leveling other classes. Not everyone will do this and you will unfortunately be stuck running Cutter's Cry with people in level 15 gear.
It can be annoying, but just think of it as T13 practice. If you were able to keep him up, that says more about you than his uh... experimental play style. Remember: You as the healer are always right. Don't listen to those naughty DPS scrubs!
RE: Is this common for tanks? - K'nahli - 05-15-2015
I am not entirely sure about what level my gear was, I typically upgraded gear as was offered to me through MSQs, but level 20 gear at a level 28 dungeon doesn't sound too bad to me(?) Maybe I am mistaken though.
(05-15-2015, 05:19 PM)Warren Castille Wrote: -snip-
I see what you were going for here, but without some actual and legitimate contribution of your own, your post just comes off as rude and dismissive of the OP's concerns. Please avoid that in the future.
RE: Is this common for tanks? - Melkire - 05-15-2015
A few things I'd like to cover:
1. You probably were sorted into the instance with a pre-arranged party of three. That or you were dealt malcontents.
2. If your tank is having issues staying alive for whatever reason (be it poor play or poor gear), you should not be DPSing as a healer, especially not to the point where you are running out of mana. An exception is made if your damage dealers are the ones playing poorly by not killing things fast enough to alleviate pressure on you and the tank.
3. Tanks do have weird itemization at times before they hit level 50. This is particularly noticeable when wearing lower level gear will give you more defensive stats overall (I mean PhysDef and MagicDef, not Parry) than wearing a higher piece of gear that takes multiple slots (any variant on Heavy Iron, for example). The people you ran with were correct, to an extent, in saying that a MRD/WAR's weapon damage is most important since it is the key factor in whether they can hold aggro provided they know how to play their class.
4. MRD defensive cooldowns are sparse pre-WAR, and the ones they get suck (see: Foresight). This is even worse if they haven't cross-classed for skills like Awareness or Second Wind or Featherfoot (all of which are "meh" when cross-classed anyway). WAR only starts getting good defensive CDs once they hit 35, which is when they receive Inner Beast.
5. It sounds like the MRD in question hadn't leveled GLA for cross-classing Flash, which isn't necessary but does help alleviate TP concerns.
RE: Is this common for tanks? - Edda - 05-15-2015
(05-15-2015, 05:22 PM)K Wrote: I am not entirely sure about what level my gear was, I typically upgraded gear as was offered to me through MSQs, but level 20 gear at a level 28 dungeon doesn't sound too bad to me(?) Maybe I am mistaken though.If they were whites/NQ, it's a pretty big gap. If they were dungeon pinks/greens, it's not as big of a deal. Anything more than 10 levels you will start to notice extreme differences in ability, no matter how good each player is.
RE: Is this common for tanks? - K'nahli - 05-15-2015
(05-15-2015, 05:26 PM)Edda Wrote:(05-15-2015, 05:22 PM)K Wrote: I am not entirely sure about what level my gear was, I typically upgraded gear as was offered to me through MSQs, but level 20 gear at a level 28 dungeon doesn't sound too bad to me(?) Maybe I am mistaken though.If they were whites/NQ, it's a pretty big gap. If they were dungeon pinks/greens, it's not as big of a deal. Anything more than 10 levels you will start to notice extreme differences in ability, no matter how good each player is.
Mmn.... most likely had at least 1-2 dungeon drops I guess. I'm still not entirely sure either way but I do remember that I would sometimes go for a number of levels before a new upgrade showed up. Having said that, I've levelled a number of character so I could be thinking of non-tanks either.
Ah, ignore my post then, OP!
RE: Is this common for tanks? - Nebbs - 05-15-2015
Well I have noticed the same, some tanks take lots some take little.
So as the healer just make sure you heal, I tend to not go DPS until I get a feel for the tank. In fact you could adopt the same approach, you just heal.. let the nutters deal with aggro and taking damage. let the dps die and make sure the Healer and Tank live.
Not ideal but it is come as you are PuG territory. (PUG Life)
RE: Is this common for tanks? - Nako Vesh - 05-15-2015
If a tank wants to make giant pulls, they need to have the gear to back it up and know when to cycle CDs. Bottom line. I didn't start speed running Experts until I had the gear to safely do so.
RE: Is this common for tanks? - Erik Mynhier - 05-15-2015
Back when I leveled I found up to date gear was helpful but you could get by without it, especially after Shield Oath and Defiance. With those you could relax, without better gear made the difference with both defense and arggo generation.
RE: Is this common for tanks? - Kasumi Gakunin - 05-15-2015
I ran a level 50 dungeon with a tank in Strength gear instead of Vit last night. TThere wasn't a chance in hell I could help out with dps in that run. Tanking gear doesn't always make sense. I do agree as a tank your gear should be up to date because if the tank dies, whole parties can wipe. All I can in situations like that is to focus on healing the tank instead of dps. Healing is your first priority as a healer anyroad.
RE: Is this common for tanks? - Unnamed Mercenary - 05-15-2015
(05-15-2015, 08:09 PM)Lacey Orwell Wrote: I ran a level 50 dungeon with a tank in Strength gear instead of Vit last night. TThere wasn't a chance in hell I could help out with dps in that run. Tanking gear doesn't always make sense. I do agree as a tank your gear should be up to date because if the tank dies, whole parties can wipe. All I can in situations like that is to focus on healing the tank instead of dps. Healing is your first priority as a healer anyroad.
Some raid groups will deck out their tanks in STR gear. This should only really be being done when the tank is perfectly geared with best-in-slot stuff.
My condolences if it was a new tank should thought it was the "correct" gear because of some advice he read.
RE: Is this common for tanks? - Gegenji - 05-15-2015
Strength GEAR or Strength accessories? Because having STR stuff right side is totally feasible. I actually leveled tanks with the bonus points in STR and using STR accessories and did... pretty well, actually. But you definitely need to be comfortable tanking, since you don't have as much HP wiggle-room. And the things that just hit hard and ignore mitigation (Cloud of Darkness, for example) are a lot more dangerous.
RE: Is this common for tanks? - K'nahli - 05-15-2015
I have strength accessories on my Paladin for when I was actively PvP'ing. I had occasionally done runs without realising I had forgotten to switch back.