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+--- Thread: How important is OOC achievement when playing a powerful character ICly? (/showthread.php?tid=12251)
RE: How important is OOC achievement when playing a powerful character ICly? - Kage - 06-24-2015
For me, it sounds far too much like taking in OOC factors for something that should be IC only. The only time I wonder about a low level character is if a person has been able to experience the "job lore" of what they're playing. A lvl 20 conjurer talking about being a white mage? OOC I will wonder exactly what the player knows about the lore for their class and job.
Does it matter then in combat? For me, no. After a few bad experiences, I much prefer to get into combat RP with those I trust.
You only know of their level through OOC means. How would your thoughts change (or not) if we were unable to see another person's level? Or, if you actively had it so that names and levels were not shown when in RP?
Edit: Another factor I'd take into consideration is... if you are actively doing a dungeon or trial that requires you to fit a certain mechanic but most will try to make it easy now. You can't take a lvl 40 Tank into Coil. You'll have to improvise certain dungeons if a character is X level.
RE: How important is OOC achievement when playing a powerful character ICly? - Gegenji - 06-24-2015
(06-24-2015, 09:11 AM)Alaz Wrote: I get where the other side is coming from (and I know that good RPers usually won't do this) but if I bust my ass to get something, I often do so because I'd like to use it IC or implement it into my character. It feels cheap, to me, to have a person say 'yeah, well me too!' when they didn't do the work to get there. This can be anything from levels to items to mounts to minions. Take your pick.
I can completely understand that. I busted my ass to get Chachan his Vulcan Lucis - solely for him to use in RP since I play him as a master smith. Plus, I thought it would be hilarious to see him using a hammer the size of his torso (still super bummed that it "shrinks" when you unsheath it).
However, I would like to believe I could still RP him as a great smith even if I hadn't gotten it or leveled BSM and ARM to cap. In his history, he was born to a long line of smiths and had his skills hammered into him since he was but a little spud (ha ha popoto joke). He's also a 50 PLD, but he's nowhere near a master swordsman - if anything, it's his self-made armor and weapon that is making up for his lack of battle prowess. Even after moons of training with a Free Paladin and attending the Grindstone on a fairly regular basis.
To take things further, how would one mechanically prove skills that they're are RPing but don't have a mechanical equal in-game? To go back to that Master Dancer, Ninja, Sorceror as an example... how would she "prove" that she was a master dancer? There's no dancing class, and all the dances are exactly the same (minus straight /dance, which is still the same as everyone else of her race and gender). Before the advent of the MCH, how would one prove they tinker with Magitek or even just use a gun with any sort of skill?
RP is a lot more... freeform, I suppose would be the word for it, and is oftentimes difficult to constrain to the mechanics of the game they're in. As I mentioned before, I don't look at levels and I'm of the opinion one shouldn't... because you're there to RP with them and not run a dungeon with them. So, their actual game stats matter less than their "roleplaying" stats - i.e. how well they tell their story in roleplay.
I mean, would it be fair to deny... say... a full-time working mother of three who wants to RP being an accomplished swordswoman solely because she hasn't leveled Gladiator (or better yet, DRK) - something she hasn't done due to real life leaving her with precious little time to actually commit to grinding out those levels? I'm not saying this is always the case, but one really shouldn't discount people who are just using the game as the vehicle for their RP - to hang out with their friends and tell pretend stories rather than run dungeons and gear up.
RE: How important is OOC achievement when playing a powerful character ICly? - Dogberry - 06-24-2015
(06-24-2015, 09:20 AM)Magellan Wrote:(06-24-2015, 09:17 AM)Dogberry Wrote: It doesn't count for everything, but I'm going to be more inclined to have Dogberry take the boasts of a level 50 in Dreadwyrm more seriously than a level 15 in Plundered set.So the Scions shouldn't be taken seriously because of  the clothes they wear?
The scions shouldn't be taken seriously regardless of the clothes they wear.
RE: How important is OOC achievement when playing a powerful character ICly? - Magellan - 06-24-2015
(06-24-2015, 09:42 AM)Dogberry Wrote:Lol this is an awesome answer xD(06-24-2015, 09:20 AM)Magellan Wrote:(06-24-2015, 09:17 AM)Dogberry Wrote: It doesn't count for everything, but I'm going to be more inclined to have Dogberry take the boasts of a level 50 in Dreadwyrm more seriously than a level 15 in Plundered set.So the Scions shouldn't be taken seriously because of  the clothes they wear?
The scions shouldn't be taken seriously regardless of the clothes they wear.
Kudos Sir.
RE: How important is OOC achievement when playing a powerful character ICly? - Kurt S. - 06-24-2015
Also just one more reason why I think OOC achievement is kind of important.
Because of you're like me and your extent of combat writing in general is smaller than the width of your pinky, but you're playing a character who is, let's say a war scarred veteran, you want to validate that.Â
Except that again, a rat's ass is broader than your knowledge on how to show that power.Â
I mean sure you get better over time, as you practice, which I haven't been doing. But I think that works better with a fresh faced adventurer whose grasp on fighting is about on par with your own. When you know no shit.Â
tl;dr sometimes OOC player writing skill holds back the character's IC skill. So OOC leveling and achievements could help make your character a bit more credible in whatever they do. Unless you're Hamon Holyfist.
RE: How important is OOC achievement when playing a powerful character ICly? - Maril - 06-24-2015
I segregate gameplay from roleplay by far most of the time. The only reason why I level classes related to my characters skills, is because usually those classes have gear that I would like my character to wear and look pretty in. I do not mind if someone is level 15 or 60, if they're a fresh character or a two year old character. What I do mind is if someone hasn't bothered to give good reason as to why the character is strong, or how they became strong. If they're more powerful than people older of their age who have studied whatever they're practicing for longer, I'd expect there to be a reason as to why they have attained more strength. It shouldn't just be because it sounds cool and there's an OOC motivation to be stronger than everyone else, so you can win fights. There has to be ample reason and justification.. There's no way I could take it seriously if someone tomorrow just became a powerful astrologian from one day to the next, because they hit 60 astrologian, to give an example. I'm also a fan of progressing characters over time as you play them, so you may stark out weakish, and then get a stronger character during the course of whatever events they might partake in.Â
It was one of the first things I was taught about roleplay back in the day, that level did not matter. I'm also quite a slow leveller, I like to take my time - in another game it took me 6 months to reach the level cap because I was roleplaying so much. I'd be in a terrible position if people hadn't taken me seriously just because you are slow.. And if anything needs to be rated, the time a player spends roleplaying should surely be more important than time spent on their pve level.
RE: How important is OOC achievement when playing a powerful character ICly? - Magellan - 06-24-2015
What If we take combat out of it?
Claire is a master chef icly, Â but oocly I am only lvl 15 CUL. I often go to great lengths describing her actions in the kitchen. Should I cease to do so because a game mechanic shows she shouldn't be able to cook?
RE: How important is OOC achievement when playing a powerful character ICly? - Kurt S. - 06-24-2015
(06-24-2015, 10:10 AM)Magellan Wrote: What If we take combat out of it?If you're referring to my posts I point you to this handy-dandy tl;dr I put at the bottom
Claire is a master chef icly, Â but oocly I am only lvl 15 CUL. I often go to great lengths describing her actions in the kitchen. Should I cease to do so because a game mechanic shows she shouldn't be able to cook?
tl;dr sometimes OOC player writing skill holds back the character's IC skill. So OOC leveling and achievements could help make your character a bit more credible in whatever they do. Unless you're Hamon Holyfist.
If your knowledge on how to work metal is lacking but your character is a master goldsmith, the divide might just be noticeable. Again, OOC achievement is there to help credit the character, not an end all solution. Especially if you're none too familiar with inner workings,
but then 'why make a character like that if you don't know how to do what they do or have no knowledge of it?' I unno, player preference.
Sure reading more can help immensely or finding actual RL opportunities to get hands on with the subject matter would help too, barring asking advice/methodology from people who actually do it.
I'm only using combat as a general and very common thing in RP.
RE: How important is OOC achievement when playing a powerful character ICly? - Roen - 06-24-2015
(06-24-2015, 09:33 AM)Gegenji Wrote: RP is a lot more... freeform, I suppose would be the word for it, and is oftentimes difficult to constrain to the mechanics of the game they're in. As I mentioned before, I don't look at levels and I'm of the opinion one shouldn't... because you're there to RP with them and not run a dungeon with them. So, their actual game stats matter less than their "roleplaying" stats - i.e. how well they tell their story in roleplay.
This.
I too separate game mechanics from RP because how many hours someone has spent leveling and running dungeons says nothing about what kind of roleplayers they are.
I actually know a few players that play this game just to roleplay. Yes they run dungeons or what not to gain certain levels for certain RP things (one of them HAD to have the weaver AF for a certain look for their character), but they also run around with level 10 gladiators to insert them as thug NPCs for a scene or what not.
I think though the wariness of the initial OP came from the fact that it was dealing with a stranger who was claiming all sorts of power, which... in my opinion would be hard to believe anyways given the character's age and what not. And for such reasons, I usually avoid conflict with random strangers (I say usually since on rare occasions I have had Roen step into a situation where I knew no one but she had been watching the scene on the side for some time...) and limit confrontations with players I know and trust.
But if a low level character approached me and it is a well written RPer? I usually will run with it unless it is WAY far fetched. I did have a friend surprise me (not letting me know OOC) by rolling a new character, a level 15 guy in some tattered robe, who had been RPing a street begger for a couple of weeks (me and others had seen him for days) before he actually approached and tried to kill someone. An assassin in disguise if you will. If I had ignored him based on just his level, that surprise would have been totally ruined.
RE: How important is OOC achievement when playing a powerful character ICly? - Aaron - 06-24-2015
I judge skill by how descriptive the writing is.
People who just want to win stuff and be the strongest generally don't go great lengths to describe how they dodge or similar.Â
Same applies to DoH. A chef that's really good is more likely to describe how than one who just goes "I can cook"
RE: How important is OOC achievement when playing a powerful character ICly? - Gegenji - 06-24-2015
(06-24-2015, 10:10 AM)Magellan Wrote: What If we take combat out of it?
Claire is a master chef icly, Â but oocly I am only lvl 15 CUL. I often go to great lengths describing her actions in the kitchen. Should I cease to do so because a game mechanic shows she shouldn't be able to cook?
Yeah, it always seems to be matters of physical or arcane power that cause these issues. Not many people are demanding credentials of the best bartender of Eorzea or a super-successful Weaver. Or even the various nobles that are running around. These all have a level of power of their own - especially the nobles - that can't really be abstracted into the mechanics of the game (beyond having lots of gil and a fully furnished mansion, maybe?).
And I guess that's where the issue lies. If the level 5 Pugilist claims he can suplex Titan, you're obviously going to give that less credit than the level 60 Monk who claims the same. Yet, I still find the issue is in the statement itself - "I can suplex Titan" - and not the level of the person saying it.
Why can he suplex Titan? Years of specialized training gradually suplexing larger and larger things over the years until he reached his level of mastery? An innate strength borne from an outside source? Or just because the player wants their dude to be blindly accepted as being super strong or symbolize the fact they leveled the class to 60?
If your character is physically or magically powerful - in an RP sense - then I just want a solid explanation as to why. And hopefully portrayed well. Someone saying "I can suplex Titan" without giving any reason as to why or how falls flat for me, whether level 5 or 55.
RE: How important is OOC achievement when playing a powerful character ICly? - Hammersmith - 06-24-2015
(06-24-2015, 10:30 AM)Gegenji Wrote: Why can he suplex Titan Train? Years of specialized training gradually suplexing larger and larger things over the years until he reached his level of mastery? An innate strength borne from an outside source? Or just because the player wants their dude to be blindly accepted as being super strong or symbolize the fact they leveled the class to 60?
If your character is physically or magically powerful - in an RP sense - then I just want a solid explanation as to why. And hopefully portrayed well. Someone saying "I can suplex Titan Train" without giving any reason as to why or how falls flat for me, whether level 5 or 55.
At some point you're going to have to address the suplex question. Â It's a legit question, with this being Final Fantasy. Â It's not the first time this question has been posed.
The only answer is:Â
![[Image: tumblr_n5b0hfYf6n1sippq6o3_500.gif]](https://33.media.tumblr.com/084e4b20be77a435725f2d0cd435d6a2/tumblr_n5b0hfYf6n1sippq6o3_500.gif)
RE: How important is OOC achievement when playing a powerful character ICly? - Sigil.9054 - 06-24-2015
I tend to disconnect gameplay capability from RP capability for a few reasons:
1.) I've met some pretty awesome storytellers that are kinda shit at the game they're RPing in, due to lack of time or skill.
2.) For people who aren't bad at the game and have the time, getting to max level is pretty easy, leading to swarms of supermen characters.
3.) Some people (like me) actually prefer to play underpowered characters, whose abilities are
going to be far lower than what the gameplay suggests.
4.) If you're playing a one-shot villain for a story, you probably don't want to invest the time required to level them.
5.) People will use gameplay to make story developments trivial. Example: Why didn't they use a phoenix down on Aeris?
There's more, I think, but my brain is failing me, and I have to leave for work soon.
Now, I do like some rules when it comes to combat RP. I just think those rules should be separated from the game play due to the above-mentioned things. Unfortunately, coming up with a set of rules everyone will agree on and use can be a bit of a challenge.
And that's my 2 gil.
RE: How important is OOC achievement when playing a powerful character ICly? - Lilia Lia - 06-24-2015
For me personally? Very important. However, that's because I like to RP the content. If you want Lilia to craft an item for you, she'll do it IC and she'll be very happy to, and you'll see that many of her items are of very high quality, but there's still much that she has to learn. Because I RP a few of my character classes like this, if other people are playing their classes I'd expect them to be able to put their money where their mouth is also. Level 50 is a good baseline for crafting in my opinion. The lingo I use in my RP circle is "guild certified" to refer to people who are level 50 in a craft.Â
I'd also see this being important for people who want to do IC dungeons. Some of the people in my RP circle like to do some of the content IC and in those situations it's important for people's actual character level to be on par with whatever they're claiming is their actual level of skill.
That having been said, if we're RPing in a world where there's a 1:1 correspondence between skill level IC and OOC, then Lilia is a much more skilled character than I play her as being. IC she knows enough ACN to have served in the Flames but not much past that. A world where IC classes are the same as OOC makes for a very low skill ceiling in the lore universe.
RE: How important is OOC achievement when playing a powerful character ICly? - Gegenji - 06-24-2015
(06-24-2015, 10:38 AM)Hammersmith Wrote:(06-24-2015, 10:30 AM)Gegenji Wrote: Why can he suplex Titan Train? Years of specialized training gradually suplexing larger and larger things over the years until he reached his level of mastery? An innate strength borne from an outside source? Or just because the player wants their dude to be blindly accepted as being super strong or symbolize the fact they leveled the class to 60?
If your character is physically or magically powerful - in an RP sense - then I just want a solid explanation as to why. And hopefully portrayed well. Someone saying "I can suplex Titan" without giving any reason as to why or how falls flat for me, whether level 5 or 55.
At some point you're going to have to address the suplex question. Â It's a legit question, with this being Final Fantasy. Â It's not the first time this question has been posed.
The only answer is:Â
It should be noted that "being Sabin" is a pretty damn good reason.