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First time posting here, DESPERATELY need help deciding City-State and Grand Company - Printable Version

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First time posting here, DESPERATELY need help deciding City-State and Grand Company - Terin - 06-26-2015

Okay, I apologize in advance for what is going to be a MASSIVE wall of text.

I've honestly never role-played before, and to be honest, I've never played an MMO where I *actually* cared about my character, beyond "how he looks". In fact, my first "main" character (Miqo'te Monk), I skipped virtually all of the quest dialogue and cutscenes, up until the very end of   2.0. Since then, I've been hooked on the story, and I want to create a new character -- a Xaela, specifically -- that is as Lore-friendly as possible.

So... What little we know of the Xaela is that they are made up of 51 nomadic, warring tribes (with a few exceptions). Apparently, just as the Raen's names are based on Japanese names (which suits their more tranquil culture), the Xaela's names are based on Mongolian names. Thing is, I don't know a single thing *about* Mongolians (Mongols?), of their culture.

On top of that, though, I also want to the choice of starting-area and eventually Grand Company to be taken into account. Not just "which one I like best" -- because I genuinely like both Ul'dah as well as Limsa Lominsa -- but being invested in the story as I am, I want to make the choice that "fits" the best.

For one, the two Classes I'd be choosing between are Gladiator and Marauder. Even though the choice doesn't *technically* matter, I feel like it plays a part in setting-up their whole narrative. On the one hand, real-world Gladiators were pretty brutal dudes, but in Eorzea, I don't know as much about them. What I *do* know is that they eventually become Paladins, which are the traditional "Holy Knight" style of character for Final Fantasy games. Plus, aren't Paladins part of the Sultansword? Assuming you started in Ul'dah, and became a Paladin, it actually makes more sense as to why you are forced to flee to Ishgard. My main, for example, belongs to the Twin Adders (who I chose simply because I was a Monk, and have a skill called "Twin Snakes"; literally wasn't paying attention to the story back then), and after "that stuff" that happens in 2.55, I couldn't help but think "WoW, Ken-E; you're just gonna *leave me*?!?"

On the other hand, Limsa Lominsa seems like a more "rugged" kind of city, even if the landscape isn't so much. I'll admit, I really don't get a Nautical-vibe from the Xaela, and Limsa, the Maelstrom, and Marauder all give off a decidedly "Pirate-y" vibe. Not just "outlaw", but seafaring pirates *specifically*. At the same time, though, Ul'dah seems driven more by greed than might, whereas Limsa seems much more welcoming of new faces.

Getting back to "narrative", though... Both Cities and Grand Companies seem to offer radically different "takes" on the story. If you start in Ul'dah, you meet Thancred first. If you join the Immortal Flames (not gonna lie; I definitely love the *name* of the Immortal Flames), you're part of an organization which obviously becomes *very* important in the 2.X Main Scenario quests. The whole story, then, becomes a recurring tale of betrayal, and the transition from Paladin (who, to my understanding, is an extension of the Sultansword, thus left without purpose) to Dark Knight becomes surprisingly believable.

On the other hand, though... *should* a Xaela really be so concerned with the  fate of Ul'dah or its people? With Y'shtola being the main Scion you deal with in Limsa Lominsa, I've always really liked her as a character, and considering Xaela are supposedly these menacing, ferocious warriors, there's something sort of fitting about Y'shtola being your first encounter with the Scions; whereas Thancred I found to be a little annoying, Y'shtola seems more like the type who would be able to "handle" the more barbaric sort of personalities. Plus, shallow as it sounds, Xaela definitely look *very* fitting in the Warrior AF armor (although to be fair, I don't know any of the Lore behind either Job, and I've always been keen on the Immortal Flames' Gladiator-style armor).

Now, without spoiling anything... I naturally sort of wonder if Heavensward's story would make either of these choices seem easier than the other? I honestly don't want any story moments spelled out for me, but if you feel like there's a particular revelation in the story that would influence the decision one way or the other, just say what direction it would make you lean. For example, Merlwyb and the Maelstrom -- really, Limsa Lominsa as a whole -- has been fairly unremarkable, as far as story goes. Perhaps that changes?

Honestly, as long as you don't dive into Heavensward-specific spoilers, I would love to read anything you guys have to say. By all means, spoiler the ARR stuff, including Job lore; for example, Marauders are clearly all pirates based out of Limsa Lominsa, but what of Warriors? Or what about Gladiators versus Paladins? Please, any detail is appreciated! Smile

RE: First time posting here, DESPERATELY need help deciding City-State and Grand Company - Unnamed Mercenary - 06-26-2015

Gonna see if I can tackle these one by one.

Quote:So... What little we know of the Xaela is that they are made up of 51 nomadic, warring tribes (with a few exceptions). Apparently, just as the Raen's names are based on Japanese names (which suits their more tranquil culture), the Xaela's names are based on Mongolian names. Thing is, I don't know a single thing *about* Mongolians (Mongols?), of their culture.

You might like this link for naming help!
http://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/showthread.php?tid=12124

For Mongols, don't stress out over that. The Au Ra lore seems to do a good enough job of explaining it in a Xaela interpretation. Nomadic fighters, effectively. Travel around, fight, kill, incorporate, plunder, move on. Staying in a single area and "settling down" could be seen as a sign of weakness or attachment.

Quote:For one, the two Classes I'd be choosing between are Gladiator and Marauder. Even though the choice doesn't *technically* matter, I feel like it plays a part in setting-up their whole narrative. On the one hand, real-world Gladiators were pretty brutal dudes, but in Eorzea, I don't know as much about them. What I *do* know is that they eventually become Paladins, which are the traditional "Holy Knight" style of character for Final Fantasy games. Plus, aren't Paladins part of the Sultansword? Assuming you started in Ul'dah, and became a Paladin, it actually makes more sense as to why you are forced to flee to Ishgard. My main, for example, belongs to the Twin Adders (who I chose simply because I was a Monk, and have a skill called "Twin Snakes"; literally wasn't paying attention to the story back then), and after "that stuff" that happens in 2.55, I couldn't help but think "WoW, Ken-E; you're just gonna *leave me*?!?"

On the other hand, Limsa Lominsa seems like a more "rugged" kind of city, even if the landscape isn't so much. I'll admit, I really don't get a Nautical-vibe from the Xaela, and Limsa, the Maelstrom, and Marauder all give off a decidedly "Pirate-y" vibe. Not just "outlaw", but seafaring pirates *specifically*. At the same time, though, Ul'dah seems driven more by greed than might, whereas Limsa seems much more welcoming of new faces.

Getting back to "narrative", though... Both Cities and Grand Companies seem to offer radically different "takes" on the story. If you start in Ul'dah, you meet Thancred first. If you join the Immortal Flames (not gonna lie; I definitely love the *name* of the Immortal Flames), you're part of an organization which obviously becomes *very* important in the 2.X Main Scenario quests. The whole story, then, becomes a recurring tale of betrayal, and the transition from Paladin (who, to my understanding, is an extension of the Sultansword, thus left without purpose) to Dark Knight becomes surprisingly believable.

If you accept 1.0 lore, the Gladiators are very much what their name implies. There is this fighting tournament in Ul'dah called the Bloodsands. ((Insert some awesome Sounsyy lore post here))

Marauders are basically pirates/executioners.

While the game has you progress to becoming a Free Paladin, that's not something all Gladiators would aspire to be. All Sultanswon are Paladins, but not all Paladins are Sultwansworn.

I'd say, make a story and then figure out what IC class/job might fit best. Sometimes they simply won't! (and the NPCs totally cheat that).

RE: First time posting here, DESPERATELY need help deciding City-State and Grand Company - Terin - 06-26-2015

Actually, just figured I'd add a little more about what I think my character, specifically, would be like, personality-wise.

My thinking is that, at least initially, he's the type of character who values "the old ways", who believes that war and the pursuit of glory are a way of life. He sees himself as a leader, and his end-goal is to conquer new lands. That, by proving himself the baddest, meanest warrior in all the land, others that share his beliefs will answer his call, seeking to establish his own personal army/clan/tribe.

At the same time, though, as someone who presumably either left or was cast-out from his original tribe, he's someone that has probably never experienced a real connection to anything; no friends, no lovers, only war. As such, Eorzea's people would seem "weak" to him, but also strange. Given how long the 2.0 storyline is, it makes sense that he would grow extremely attached to his allies, even if he's not one to show it. Probably the type who is quick to anger, and is always eager for a fight, but is also incredibly defensive of his new, only friends, and would kill, or even die to protect them.

I mean, in a lot of ways, Raubaun totally seems like a kindred spirit; he's General of the Immortal Flames (and man, I *do* love the name of the Immortal Flames), and rose up from the Colosseum. At the same time, though, with my Xaela being a "might controls everything" sort of guy, the fact that Ul'dah is quite lavish, a place where *money* controls everything, might make it a poor fit to be his "home".

As bloodthirsty as he might be, I would imagine my Xaela to have a pretty strict code of morals when it comes to fighting; no "ambushes", he's the type who fights his opponent face-to-face, and views those who fight from the shadows as cowards. In this way, I think both Gladiator and Marauder make sense,

After "that stuff" that happens in 2.55, though, I would imagine that he just kind of "snaps". Distraught over whether or not he'll see his friends again, I imagine he would completely revert to "the old ways", looking more for vengeance than "justice" when he returns to Ul'dah. This actually segways pretty nicely into the Dark Knight job.

Really, the only other thing I might add is that... well, for some reason, I just really dig Y'shtola. Given the brutal tendencies of my Xaela, I feel like Y'shtola is the character that would be able to get under his skin the most. To be honest, she and Raubaun are my two favorite characters in FFXIV. Kind of a bummer FFXIV doesn't have romance options, because I could see her being a good counterpart to sort of "hold his leash", being she seems the most level-headed of the Scions.

.....Anyways, hah, I know this is a *TON* of stuff to read through! Like I said, I've never actually role-played before, but after experiencing the end of 2.0 all the way through 2.55, I've just been really inspired. Even if I'm not actively role-playing with other players, I guess I just like the thought of having a character in my head. After all, I never intended for my original Miqo'te Monk to develop into a "character", but I just really grew attached to him over time.

RE: First time posting here, DESPERATELY need help deciding City-State and Grand Company - Gegenji - 06-26-2015

First and foremost, I'd like to point out that most of your concerns only matter if you're RPing as the Warrior of Light, or their traveling companion. Which of the Scions you actually meet in the Main Story Questline (MSQ) ultimately has only as much importance as you want to put into it. And, unless you actually plan to have your character be a part of the Maelstrom, Immortal Flames, or Twin Adders as part of their character, Grand Company doesn't matter much either. I usually pick mine based on the /gcsalute (I like the Maelstrom's more familiar salute) and how their gear looks.

In regards to your Au Ra, this naming thread has some information not only on Mongolian names, but also a link to a page on Mongol history. There are also a couple Mongol history buffs around that can probably answer any questions you have. Just throw them out and hopefully someone will give you some answers.

Gladiators ARE pretty violent dudes. They're trained for bloodsport on the Bloodsands for the most part - either against each other or great beasts. You can see a lot of that in the Halatali dungeons and (oddly enough) the fight with Ultros and Typhon in the Hildebrand quest line. Them becoming Paladins, though, is not quite the same - it's just a mechanical progression from base class to specialized job and you are not forced to become a Paladin because you are a Gladiator... nor could you not become a Paladin ICly despite never lifting a sword and shield.

There are two different types of Paladin, though, if you still want to go down that route. First are the ones you mentioned - the Sultansworn - which is basically the Secret Service/CIA for the Sultanate of Ul'dah. The other is a newer concept - the Free Paladin - who travels around protecting folks without being confined to the Jewel or her leadership.

Limsa was built from the remains of a great sea vessel, and it home to a majority of Eorzea's nautical folk and sea power, so it's not surprising you get a pirate-y feel there. A lot of them used to be pirates, including the Grand Company leader! But you can also find merchants, fishermen, chefs, and smiths there as well. It really is a seaside melting pot of culture, in which an Au Ra might be able to fit in.

And you don't need to limit yourself to the story for reasons to go to Ishgard. We have several folks playing Ishgardians, so they were more aiding in the war effort of their people than anything. We had people who just wanted to see behind the gates that had been closed to outsiders for years. And, ICly, you can play yourself as a DRK even before having the job unlocked if you really want to. We had people pretending to be running around with guns well before MCH was even hinted at.

I suppose the best way to figure out which path to go for is to decide what type of character you want to play, and then figure out where they go from there. Picking a tribe might be a good start, and then you can decide how they ended up in Eorzea. From that, you could figure out which city they might have ended up at and how their life progressed from that.

Example. Your Xaela's tribe was under pressure from the Garlean occupation and forced to flee your homeland. The ship they hitched a ride on brought them to Vesper Bay. Axe in hand, your Xaela turns to the only way of life they know - combat - in order to make a living in this strange new world. As such, they start fighting as a gladiator in the Bloodsands. A strange, exotic figure bringing a bestial, foreign way of fighting to the spectators - and garnering all sorts of attention, good and bad.

All of this, of course, never even touches on what Grand Company you choose or what Scion you meet first IG. You could still have your character join a Grand Company (perhaps recruited by the Flames to help combat the Garleans, a shared foe) or even the Scions (meeting them at your own pace - maybe coming across Y'shtola on her occasional appearances in the Jewel), but on your own creative terms rather than what is set by the MSQ.

Not that you have to, of course. If you want to use the story of the Warrior of Light as the main impetus for your character, feel free. I'm merely offering alternatives and options.

RE: First time posting here, DESPERATELY need help deciding City-State and Grand Company - Terin - 06-26-2015

Yeah, I'm thinking mostly in terms of just experiencing the Main Scenario; I doubt I actually get into serious role-playing. It might be something I try later, once I feel like I've "caught up" on Heavensward.

Still, I feel like there are things that fit, and things that don't fit, about both options. And, you know, I also wonder if I should be treating my character as an Au Ra that arrives at the very beginning of ARR, or is it kind of a time-skip thing, where after the Doman refugees were turned away from Ul'dah? Or for that matter, being a Xaela (and the Doman Au Ra would clearly be Raen, based on their names), maybe he wouldn't even care all that much?

And... something else that I've thought about, but I really don't know if it should factor in or not, are the AF sets. I've not seen the Dark Knight's yet, but at least on the character-creation screen, the Warrior gear looks *very* much suited for a Xaela, whereas the Paladin armor seems a little too "elegant". But then, maybe that's not even the real issue, since Gladiators aren't necessarily all destined to become Paladins, or that the pirate-y Marauders aren't that deeply connected to Warriors, beyond game-mechanics?

It's just... tough to decide. I know I'm kind of obsessing over the choice, but I just want to pick the more "story-appropriate" choice. Even with Grand Company; I know you can change GC later on, but the choice still has a minor impact on the story, including your "Unending Journal" Main Scenario quests.

I even sort of wonder... My knee-jerk reaction is to choose the same Grand Company as the City-State you start in, just so they "match". I wonder, though, if that's over-simplifying them? I always think that, starting as a Marauder just makes you naturally more inclined to become a Pirate or join the Maelstrom. Being a Gladiator feels a little more "open" though, although most of the NPC's I've seen are more concerned with "fortune and fame" than "glory and honor".

Like I said, I know it's probably putting too much thought into fairly trivial choices, but considering how much time you invest in these characters, I don't want to wind up having to "re-start" the story as a new character, for it to feel "right".

RE: First time posting here, DESPERATELY need help deciding City-State and Grand Company - industrythirteen - 06-26-2015

The Xaela canon tribes offer a lot of differing temperaments and ideology between tribes. Inferences can also be made about general attitudes towards things, and it allows for folks to make up their own tribes. We've got 51 different puzzle pieces to play with. There is no right or wrong way to Xaela, in my opinion: once I know the general rules, I can then break or bend them to make something that I personally find more interesting. Consider that everything listed is how things once were on Othard, but our characters are all in Eorzea now: we can play characters stuck in the past, or characters that resist change, or characters embracing change, or anything in between. 

http://heraldry.sca.org/names/mongolian_names_marta.html this is a good primer on mongolian naming. Personally, I'm a fan of taking names from history, which is what I did for my Xaela. She's named for a Mongolian/Yuan Emperor, using the name of a tributary tribe for the Imperial tribe. Ayushiridara Khatagin. 

If you want a place in-game to talk Au Ra, I run the Scales of Othard linkshell. You can pick people's brains there, and everyone is super friendly. http://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/showthread.php?tid=11298

K'hanli also created a great thread that lists which tribes people have been joining, as well as a listing of non-canon tribes. http://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/showthread.php?tid=12127&pid=192416#pid192416

edit: Also, your city state is based on what class you choose when you first make your character. In my opinion, Grand Company choice is mostly irrelevant, unless you plan to PVP with your friends. Then it matters. If you want it to make sense from an RP perspective, cool, but if you can't make any of it fit, don't sweat it.

RE: First time posting here, DESPERATELY need help deciding City-State and Grand Company - Seriphyn - 06-26-2015

Keep in mind Au Ra are brand new to Eorzea. Are they going to be born in Ul'dah, or an immigrant? The latter is very likely, the former is a stretch, I reckon.

RE: First time posting here, - ＧＲＡＶＥＭＡＮ - 06-26-2015

(06-26-2015, 01:57 PM)Terin Wrote: DESPERATELY need help deciding City-State and Grand Company

It's a simple choice really.


'TILL SEA SWALLOWS US ALL

RE: First time posting here, DESPERATELY need help deciding City-State and Grand Company - Terin - 06-27-2015

I suppose my thinking is mainly... Do you think it "fits" the overarcing story better, to start in Ul'dah, where you meet Thancred first, and join the Immortal Flames, where you form a stronger bond with Raubaun?

Or start in Limsa Lominsa, where the Au Ra are accepted (later on in the story), and are less about "money" and "fame", and more about "carrying your own weight". I'll admit, I really don't see any reason I would join the Maelstrom, other than to remain in the same city, although they also control Wolves' Den, right? Which is kind of the PvP capital?

But then, maybe that shouldn't factor in so much? The only thing that I remember making a difference, is those first couple of Main Scenario Quests being based around your Grand Company. In some ways, both Grand Companies fall kind of short; the Admiral just talks about the sea, whereas Raubaun seems to talk largely about money.

Plus, having seen the Defender armor-sets for both factions... to be honest, I'm not feeling either of them. I was much more excited about the Attacker sets; I thought those were the sets that were just shared between all Jobs, but given that, I'm not sure how I feel. Although... I suppose the Flames' Bull-themed armor is kind of cool, and definitely matches Raubaun.

I mean... Do you guys have any further insight on what those two Grand Companies are about, beyond their memorial ceremonies just before you join one? Like, does one value honor and raw strength more than the other, in your eyes? Or is one a little more brutal than the other?

Like I said, I'm just trying to put a lot of thought into this. I probably won't be able to actually PLAY the game until Wednesday, because I'm actually moving IRL, but I'd like to have settled on a choice, one way or the other. I've actually avoided playing my old main character, because I want to level up and experience the story fresh, with this new Xaela character leading the charge. I'll probably wind up doing the same thing once I hit Ishgard, in that I'll probably put everything on hold until I've caught the Dark Knight back up (which thankfully, will be a lot easier, as I'll have a TON of quests to go back and complete, whereas my "main" exhausted most of them, up until mid-40's).

RE: First time posting here, - Zhavi - 06-27-2015

Given the tribe descriptions, the devs didn't just pull from Mongolian (or hell, even central eurasian) nomadic practices. Some of the descriptions make me think there's African, far eastern Russian, and maybe even some Central American influences going on. So, don't fret that you don't know a ton about Mongolian culture -- I honestly don't get the vibe that the devs meant for the Xaela to be a carbon copy of what it means to be a Mongolian pastoral nomad -- hell, some of the descriptions in there even directly contradict how steppe nomads actually work! (looking at you, vegetarian tribe)

Some nomad basics are this: they're tough. They're usually very welcoming of outsiders (it is a HUGE thing for many nomad cultures to properly treat guests. Even if those guests are strangers, they are welcomed in, given the best food, and the best place to sleep), typically self sufficient, if they are pastoral nomads they generally have a well-rounded knowledge of animal husbandry, they have deep spiritual beliefs (though that's not exclusive to nomads), they typically carry more than one type of weapon, and if pastoral nomads of horses they are masterful riders. Many pastoral nomads also don't really treat their animals like pets -- while they deeply respect and honor their animals, except for the occasional especially beloved animal, their animals are not part of their families.

If you want to include some Mongolian flavor, their three most manly sports are wrestling, horse racing, and archery. They tend to carry their wealth in useful things (such as embroidered deels (which the game does not have and I do not believe the xaela wear), headdresses, gers, or other useful things -- nomads do not have unnecessary stuff), and from what undergrad/grad papers I've read from those staying with modern pastoral nomadic families, tend to be a gregarious people. And from my professors who have done work with russian pastoral nomads, it's the same. They're generally an upbeat, mischievous bunch (though, don't take that to mean all the time -- they're still people, and people are all different from each other).

f you want to take some tidbits from digs of ancient peoples such as the Scythians, warriors are at the top of the pecking order when it comes to reverence. Horses are symbolic of wealth. Weed was used at funeral rites. They had short range and long range bows, as well as different types of arrows (which is true of ancient Mongolians as well). The men spent long, long chunks of time away from home, and in some cases the women would marry male slaves (though this is something that should be taken with a grain of salt). Slavery was very common, both in taking slaves from other tribes, and from outside cultures. They weren't above being bribed with luxury goods, and only the rich would have such otherwise useless goods. Felt was (and is) a common type of cloth. They wore bright colors, particularly yellow, blue, and red.

Also throat singing and the horse-head fiddle. And if you want some music, Altai Hangai:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlQ4vjZpGwk

If you want some art, Mongol Zurag is great due to its focus on Mongolian culture. B. Sharav is one of the masters of this style -

[Image: A%2BDay%2Bin%2BMongolia%2B%2Bby%2BB.%2BS...939%29.jpg]

But, honestly, do what you enjoy. The devs have made sure with the family tidbits that there is no one right way when it comes to xaela.

RE: First time posting here, DESPERATELY need help deciding City-State and Grand Company - Terin - 06-28-2015

Just curious, are there *ANY* Xaela NPC's in Heavensward?

I ask because, if I even knew how they generally seem to speak, I feel like maybe I could better gauge how I want to progress with my own.

I mean... Like I said, on the one hand, I kind of imagine the Xaela as being this brutal, angry sort of guy, but at the same time, I wonder if I'm sort of overshooting the goal? Not knowing much about the Dark Knight job, for example, I don't know what kind of "personality" really feeds into their "vibe". Are they brutal, bloodthirsty executioners? Are they more reserved, or more elegant than that?

And which of the starting Classes, and Grand Companies, best feeds into that "Dark Knight vibe"?

It's something I've given a great deal of thought to, and the truth is, I simply cannot come up with an answer. I seriously wish they'd have just added another starter-area, to make the decision that much simpler. With the choices that we have, though... I'm just not sure.

It's kind of a shame you can't just totally piece your own story together, within the game itself.

RE: First time posting here, DESPERATELY need help deciding City-State and Grand Company - Meena - 06-28-2015

(06-28-2015, 03:59 AM)Terin Wrote: Just curious, are there *ANY* Xaela NPC's in Heavensward?

I ask because, if I even knew how they generally seem to speak, I feel like maybe I could better gauge how I want to progress with my own.

I mean... Like I said, on the one hand, I kind of imagine the Xaela as being this brutal, angry sort of guy, but at the same time, I wonder if I'm sort of overshooting the goal? Not knowing much about the Dark Knight job, for example, I don't know what kind of "personality" really feeds into their "vibe". Are they brutal, bloodthirsty executioners? Are they more reserved, or more elegant than that?

And which of the starting Classes, and Grand Companies, best feeds into that "Dark Knight vibe"?

It's something I've given a great deal of thought to, and the truth is, I simply cannot come up with an answer. I seriously wish they'd have just added another starter-area, to make the decision that much simpler. With the choices that we have, though... I'm just not sure.

It's kind of a shame you can't just totally piece your own story together, within the game itself.
Only one i've seen, in the DRK storyline.