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+--- Thread: "Witty" characters, can they be roleplayed by the dumb? (/showthread.php?tid=13060)
"Witty" characters, can they be roleplayed by the dumb? - LadyRochester - 08-19-2015
Before any of you start sniffling, staring at your screen with foggy eyes, banging your fists against the desk as you cry: Â "BUT WHO ARE YOU TO JUDGE INTELLIGENCE!?"
I would like to say that I am asking about people who roleplay characters and EXPLICITLY state they are geniuses, only to, you know.. Have their characters hardly achieve anything "genius"-worthy because their own wit can't quite catch up to their character.
In essence, can someone fake intelligence without being intelligent themselves?
Keep everything respectful and civil. I just like to spark debate. This is a matter of opinion... Mostly.
RE: "Genius" characters, can they be roleplayed by the dumb? - Unnamed Mercenary - 08-19-2015
Sorta? It'd depend on the RPer and the people being RPed with.
I certainly wouldn't be able to talk about any type of injury like a doctor or surgeon might, but I have to be able to RP healing it. It helps if something can be abstracted into smaller parts that I am able to discuss. Getting into gritty details? I'll leave that to my typing ability and imagination.
I'd assume it works similarly for others. If there's something somebody wants to RP, chances are, they're RPing it. Some people like to do research into a field they're new to and others will type based on what they know. As long as the RPer is happy and the scene seems to be moving along, I'm generally happy to go with it. And hey, if someone's talking about something I know about and they're looking to learn more, I can possibly point them in the right direction if they're interested.
RE: "Genius" characters, can they be roleplayed by the dumb? - Lilia Lia - 08-19-2015
You can tell me whether or not this is related, but I remember RPing with Otto Vann about goldsmithing and him wanting our characters to have a theoretical conversation about the properties of soft metals. And the whole time I was kind of sweating because I was thinking, "well, Lilia's a goldsmith, but I don't know all the stuff she knows..." Then Otto sent me this long article about metallurgy and it made me feel like I was in way over my head all of a sudden.
I mean, I think that is a little bit overboard. I've met other craft RPers who do a lot of homework to make sure they can believably play their trades. And it's inspired me to do a bit of research on these issues too. But, when it comes down to it Lilia's just a lot more talented than I am, she knows more than I do, if the two of us were in a room together doing something like weaving or cooking, I'd have a lot of questions to ask her.
Here's the thing... Lilia has spent years at some of her crafts, I sure as heck haven't. But I'm just her RPer which makes me a kind of balance between actor and writer. Just as there are actors and even writers who can portray "genius" characters, I think RPers can do the same thing, though it takes some planning in some cases and it will create natural limitations.
I think Sherlock Holmes is probably smarter than Arthur Conan Doyle, and he's also probably smarter than any actor who's ever played him. But there are still good Sherlock Holmes stories and good performances of him on screen.
The main challenge in RP, then, is the fact that it's so spontaneous and improvisational. But I think this is more about skill with RP than anything else. Do you have a good enough grasp of your character's abilities that you can both write them and act them out in a timely manner during RP? If so, then by all means play a genius who is way smarter than you. It will probably not be easy, but with enough preparation and flexibility you can still play the part.
RE: "Genius" characters, can they be roleplayed by the dumb? - ɴᴘᴄ - 08-19-2015
This problem is frequently encountered in EVE, where every character is supposed to exceed common notions of human capability, especially mentation.
My thought is that the onus is essentially on the listener, how much handwavium they are willing to forgive. It might be fun to play into for some, for others they'd like to see a bit more supporting evidence before buying in. I think both approaches are valid, but I myself prefer the latter.
I misunderstood the OP.
RE: "Genius" characters, can they be roleplayed by the dumb? - 13uddy - 08-19-2015
(08-19-2015, 11:26 AM)LadyRochester Wrote: In essence, can someone fake intelligence without being intelligent themselves?
It depends on numerous factors, but basically it can be done. Â I've had numerous RP friends over the years that were nowhere near the level of intelligent as some of the characters they played (not meant as an insult or anything, simply stating that most of them admitted to being of "average" intelligence), yet they still managed to pull off a believable genius. Â
For instance, a friend of mine back in Star Wars Galaxies played a scientist despite knowing very little of science beyond some things she remembered from school, but she pulled off the character EXTREMELY well. Â She said it took a little extra work compared to many of her other characters (such as doing a little research now and then about medical procedures in both real life and the Star Wars universe), but otherwise it wasn't much different than playing any other character of a profession or culture or something else that wasn't something she knew well.
RE: "Genius" characters, can they be roleplayed by the dumb? - Stormwind - 08-19-2015
While I wouldn't call myself dumb, I certainly don't have the background that I play Stormwind having. Honestly, most of the time what I say is pulled out of my ass. Its techno-babble. While I don't really know physics, or engineering, or certainly aetherial properties, I know techno-babble. I couldn't actually tell you how magitek legs work or are built, but Stormwind does and he's created them.
If you sound confident in what you are saying, then people will listen. They may not agree but from the debate that follows you may learn something. I certainly have before.
RE: "Genius" characters, can they be roleplayed by the dumb? - Berrod Armstrong - 08-19-2015
They can do so, they may do so, they should do so and they would do so if so inclined.
RE: "Genius" characters, can they be roleplayed by the dumb? - Gegenji - 08-19-2015
This is an issue I actually have in two different degrees.
One is expertise and practical knowledge - like with Lilia, Chachan is a craftsman by trade and would know a lot more fine details about smithing and the like than I do. I try to get around it by giving generalized emotes and always having Google handy to look something up... but there's only so much I can turn up on a quick search. Especially if I don't know what terms to use.
Gogon, on the other hand, is supposed to be more all-around smart and tactically minded. The guy who thinks eight moves ahead in chess and the like, and good at getting information without giving up any. And I'm constantly worried that I'm not smart enough to play him at the intelligence level he "should" be considering my mental view of him. Considering his ego, I worry that he comes off as "more bark than bite" in the mental department instead of someone whose cunning should be something to at least have some degree of concern for.
So, I'm actually trying to play both a character with a knowledge set outside my own and a generally more intelligent character... and I can only hope I do a decent enough job with it.
RE: "Genius" characters, can they be roleplayed by the dumb? - Kaiz - 08-19-2015
I see it as being the same as RPing combat. Some players have actual training and legitimately knows what works and what doesn't work, others just do what they think works. Same goes for a character's knowledge vs a player's knowledge. tou can fudge it, but those with actual experience will know the difference and its generally a matter of how much they care to correct.
RE: "Genius" characters, can they be roleplayed by the dumb? - Oscare - 08-19-2015
Full admission that I am a very dumb person behind the character. It's actually a problem I struggle with a lot, really. I have Oscare who's intelligence is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay over my league by at least nine or eleven leagues in both expertise and practical knowledge in every sense, and I can't keep up. I can only do some much with my lower-than-basic attention to detail and comprehension, which makes Oscare have to be dumbed down to basically a child. It's not intentional, it's just a transfer of my own low OOC intelligence that Oscare can't make up for regardless of how "smart" I make him be. Because even if HE gets it (which is the intended effect 99% of the time), if I don't get it, then he won't because I'm the one typing the words. It actually bites me back in a lot of cases, unfortunately, and contributes a lot to my unwillingness to take active participation in spoken discussion.
So like Chachan said above, I can only hope to a decent enough job because Oscare is way over my own intelligence.
EDIT: Forgot to actually include my opinion. Short answer is yes, it can be done. It just requires a degree of finesse in writing. If you sound confident in what you say, players may be willing to wiggle around it!
RE: "Genius" characters, can they be roleplayed by the dumb? - arkamas - 08-19-2015
I only have one character who's on that level of intelligence, and I must say it helps having at least a basic understanding of science and the like. Â Its pretty easy to flub over the gritty hard parts like math and such. Â
Also it depends on the character... its difficult to play a character with a sharp whit if you dont have one. Â Characters not gonna make snappy comebacks without the player coming up with them. Â That said however, i'm no Hawking or Schrodinger, but I enjoy rp'ing a highly intelligent character. You just have to know enough lore/science to get by. Its a fantasy setting... let your imagination go and do what you want with what knowledge we have.
RE: "Genius" characters, can they be roleplayed by the dumb? - Virella - 08-19-2015
Yarp! Hell. We do not know things about magiteck, magic ect. It is a matter of how you character comes across. You can be the sophisticated mage, the technofreak with no social skills, the I act stupid as fudge merchant who's just playing you.
I find imagination OOC, and goals for these characters make them a lot believable then having the players OOC have lots of knowledge on the subject (I admit though, I would pay my weight in gold to know magic
) Of course it is sort of mandatory you do know what the hell is available ingame in terms of lore; for example jewel crafting irl =/= jewel crafting in Eorzea. But heck, that is available to every roleplayer if they just have the drive to look things up 
RE: "Genius" characters, can they be roleplayed by the dumb? - Diskwrite - 08-19-2015
Can they be RPed by anyone? Of course! Like the previous examples given in the thread, our characters can be a lot of things that we, ourselves aren't. But if you want to get more in-depth in your understanding of what your character does and how their mind functions, I suggest doing some research into what they're good at.
You don't have to be a master at what they do, hardly. But I personally find it invaluable to have a notion of what your character might think of. How their mental process would work. Things that would make them react and why. How they would respond. So on and so forth.
Now, the challenge with a "genius" type character is, the brain functions differently. Without an insider's knowledge on how a genius thinks, it's an extra challenge to be able to write/RP this authentically. (The same could be said for characters with mental disorders, learning disabilities, etc. that you yourself do not have)
This isn't just a problem for RPers. This is something professional writers can and do struggle with. As a kid, I always scored ridiculously high on IQ tests, and... well, the "child prodigies" I saw in books or TV shows rarely felt real to me.
I don't think this should deter you from playing what you want. This is your hobby, and you should do what you feel like. Whatever is most fun to do.... well, do that! And don't let anyone tell you that you shouldn't. Or that you're not doing it right.
RE: "Genius" characters, can they be roleplayed by the dumb? - SaintEaon - 08-19-2015
I have a problem with "genius" characters played by the intelligent. There's too many ways to mess up. Its like there's a huge group of people who RP "spy" characters and half the time we've caught these people metagaming hard. It got so bad eventaully myself and my friends just cut all ties with them because they would metagame to get info to start this huge fight, then start this fight and the otherside would figure out they were being metagamed, a shit storm would happen, and everyone would end up bitter and angry. It sounds isolated but its happened at least 4 times in the last three months with those people.Â
I think the problem with Genius characters is its too easy to stop being a character trait and start being a crutch. Its why I'll argue to the death that Man of Steel was a good Superman movie because while it had a dark ending people didn't necessarily like, it didn't lean on the "Oh Kryptonite!" Crutch that tends to be the end all be all for every other super man story ever.Â
I think the same criticism could probably be leveled at a good portion of Dark Knight Roleplayers. The "Darkness" can be a very compelling element when used correctly, but if you're just going around super angsty an angry all the time it stops becoming a part of what makes your character who they are and just becomes your character. One trait shouldn't define your character, it should definitely help with that, it can even play a major role, but it really does need to be kept in check regardless of intelligence.
RE: "Genius" characters, can they be roleplayed by the dumb? - Marisa - 08-19-2015
I can't quite place who it was, but I knew a blacksmith RPer who once came at me with something like this. Â
Dudeman McGuydude delivers a long-winded explanation of the processes and intricacies involved in forging a proper steel blade.
To which I replied
Marisa Stormsong fails to comprehend any of it, but seems happy to nod and clap occasionally.
Basically, you can pretty easily RP beyond your own knowledge just by having somewhat of an understanding of what you're talking about, using google, and falling back on "I explain this to you in a way that sounds smart" every now and then. Most people will just accept it.