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+--- Thread: "Wallflowers" and RP (/showthread.php?tid=13391)
"Wallflowers" and RP - Leggerless - 09-14-2015
Disclaimer: I'm going with the assumption most people have gone to the Quicksand before. I'll even include being part of an FC here.
It's a Thursday afternoon, your usual RP partners aren't around, and you're itching for some quick RP so you head on down to the Quicksand. Walk on in, and what do you find? 20-30 people there, maybe more or less. A random and totally peer-reviewed study shows 90% of these RPers have some derivation of "Walk-ups welcome!" in their search info. With everyone wanting walk-ups, surely more RP would ensue.
That ideal scenario doesn't work here. Of the 90% mentioned earlier, a new study indicates 60%-70% of those "Walk-ups welcome!" crowd are simply meandering around on the railing, which leads us to the dreaded wallflower--the elephant in the room.
Another scenario includes free companies where members expect the officers and leaders to create most--if not all--of the RP for them. Even with the burden of creation off the member's shoulders, people still resort to wallflowering.
The question is below:
What are possible and probable solutions to reduce or even eliminate "wallflowering" among RPers?
RE: "Wallflowers" and RP - Telluride - 09-14-2015
I made a couple of games out of it.
If I can get a table, sometimes I'll have Nathan buy a whole round of drinks when he's by himself, and RP setting them around the empty chairs as he settles it. It's a nice, simple invite.
There's also the direct approach. If I'm with someone, I might have my partner-in-crime pick a Wallflower, and agree that I will cold-approach that character, on the rule that whatever scenario, idea, or claim I come up with to facilitate the RP, the partner MUST support me on it.
I've had a good number of interesting encounters play up that way, some serious, some light hearted, some... well, like a bard being a hard-drinking, affable goof in a tavern.
RE: "Wallflowers" and RP - Hammersmith - 09-14-2015
Hammer crashes into other people's RP's more often than not.
He'll quip, harangue, or comment on something that's going on, or nudge someone and start trying to place a bet on something else that's happening.
Anything just to get the ball rolling.
RE: "Wallflowers" and RP - SaintEaon - 09-14-2015
I usually just send them a /tell or if I see them walking around looking walk up and talk to them. Sometimes I regret it though, nothing worse than Au Ra history /sarcasm
RE: "Wallflowers" and RP - Aya - 09-14-2015
I think that it is always a very personal struggle to overcome anxiety and the fear of the unknown that is inherent in walking up to someone you don't know and trying to strike up a conversation. I know that what I always try to do is:
1)Â Remind people that the server is full of people just like them who are really hoping to meet others to RP with.Â
2) To encourage perseverance in the face of adversity (this is really the hardest thing I think, since sometimes first efforts don't go well no matter how much you want them to).
3) To always try to be welcoming and to make extra efforts to approach people who seem new.
The last is something that we can all do, really all the time. The last piece is just to be patient and gentle with new RPers, welcoming ad open rather than hostile and closed off.
I don't think there is much outside of individual efforts than can really accomplish much :-X
RE: "Wallflowers" and RP - Berrod Armstrong - 09-14-2015
I tend to find somewhere in the middle of them all and stand about a bit. I crank out a couple neutral posts, but only to see who is interacting with who. When I get a feel for the circles of interaction, I either try to join one of them, or reach out to someone -outside- them (depending on if I'm feeling like roleplaying with a bunch of people or just one).
RE: "Wallflowers" and RP - SaintEaon - 09-14-2015
(09-14-2015, 03:10 PM)Aya Wrote: I think that it is always a very personal struggle to overcome anxiety and the fear of the unknown that is inherent in walking up to someone you don't know and trying to strike up a conversation. I know that what I always try to do is:
1)Â Remind people that the server is full of people just like them who are really hoping to meet others to RP with.Â
2) To encourage perseverance in the face of adversity (this is really the hardest thing I think, since sometimes first efforts don't go well no matter how much you want them to).
3) To always try to be welcoming and to make extra efforts to approach people who seem new.
The last is something that we can all do, really all the time. The last piece is just to be patient and gentle with new RPers, welcoming ad open rather than hostile and closed off.
I don't think there is much outside of individual efforts than can really accomplish much :-X
A lot of this actually.Â
At least this last weekend I had so much shit going on ICly and OOCly that even when I wasn't doing anything and was just in the Quicksand I didn't want to start an RP out of fear I'd bail half way through or I wouldn't be 100% focused on it.Â
Last night though I ended up in an RP fight with a new RPer, rather than quit I'd just give him some pointers on how things were usually done and what /random was/is. New RPers are fun, you'll never know what you're gonna get.
RE: "Wallflowers" and RP - Maril - 09-14-2015
It's a tendency that stretches back all the way to my WoW days and probably further, but that's where I saw the tencency happening the first time. People would stand at literally -any- banister in a place like say, the pig and whistle, and then just.. Stand there, waiting for something to happen but not being willing to take the first step.Â
I'm guilty of doing it myself as of late, my characters are usually outgoing and curious, but I have been lacking the que to interact with people as most people seem to not do idle emotes so much. I have a hard time discerning who's an rper and who isn't, and even who is IC at the given moment. I think one of the things that could truly help a player like me, is if they released the mod API already and we got us something like MRP from WoW or Merisioux from Rift. That way you can get a bit more information and from that perhaps get inspired to walk up.Â
I sometimes type in names on the wiki to see if there is anything, but it's not always the case.Â
Honestly I prefer open events, it's easier to find something natural to talk to a stranger about, and it's during events that I've made the most contacts on Nailah.
RE: "Wallflowers" and RP - Ignacius - 09-14-2015
Easy answer. Â Wallflowers happen because there's not enough people getting the party started. Â To simplify a fairly deep study, there are three kinds of characters:
-Drivers: Â People who drive action. Â They show up in a bar and start dancing. Â They buy rounds for strangers. Â They chatter. Â They start fights. Â They break out a louche and a bottle of absinthe. Â They have both activity and personal magnetism.
-Actors: Â People who join the action. Â Upon the arrival of a Driver, they immediately join in. Â They can make friendships and get together. Â However, their characters react to, not direct, the action.
-Introverts: Â People who will not join the action unless personally invited to or acted upon. Â They require direct engagement to participate in RP.
All of these can welcome walk-up RP. Â The trick is having enough Drivers to activate the RP and enough Drivers and Activators to draw in the Introverts. Â It can also be a pain if there are too many Drivers, as there's too many directions the scene is pulling in. Â However, if you're having a problem with everyone sitting around, waiting for something to happen, you have a lack of driving characters.
I'm beginning to move that way with Orleans out of necessity. Â There are a lot of events on Gilgamesh and a LOT of acting players, but not enough RP drivers. Â So I'm beginning to make Orleans somewhat less taciturn to try to drive RP in Limsa Lominsa.
RE: "Wallflowers" and RP - Spethah - 09-14-2015
I seem to have an uncontrollable switch for being a "Wallflower". On some days I'm like "YO LETS GO RP YEAAAH" and smash by way through someone's house to RP with them like the kool-aid man, shouting "OH YEAAH" is optional. On other days I go into ultra shy mode and end up worrying more about people's expectations than actually going "You know, people aren't going to know your character until they meet them, so you should go out there already". I literally turn into a painting and get scared when people notice.Â
Is there a way for me to overcome that? Nope, I've never found a solution that works for me in particular. Sometimes I really do need someone to smash through a wall and yell at me when I'm in shy mode.
Open events are nice for things like this, just wish people were a little understanding that you can't just suddenly gain a boost of confidence or courage or whatever and get out there. Sometimes they need a nudge in the right direction, or a helping hand.
RE: "Wallflowers" and RP - Virella - 09-14-2015
In truth, I'm not the most confident person with roleplay, Vi is a lot more reserved then Ave is.
But holy fuck, I suggest making a character who just kicks against everything. Talks with everyone, always a comment to make, stamps into taverns, drag random strangers into to drink with him and her; it is a ton of fun I've noticed, even if I felt really weird at the start doing it because hell, I'm a bit shy to start roleplaying.
But it is really rewarding in the end to be the one dragging people into roleplay, instead of waiting to be dragged in yourself
RE: "Wallflowers" and RP - Faye - 09-14-2015
Scenario 1: I don't think there's anything that can really be done to stop people in the community as a whole from wallflowering, and I don't think there's any need to stop them. It only really becomes an issue when one of the said wallflowers gets flustered at their self-imposed lack of interaction. And if you find yourself in that spot--only you can bail yourself out of it: stop being a wallflower and approach someone. When a wallflower complains about being "ignored" or being out of the loop, it can be grating, but there are people who are wholly content to wallflower, so I don't think it necessarily needs "fixed."
Scenario 2: As an FC leader I've run into this problem a lot, and it's my philosophy that it's an FC leader's job to provide opportunities, but it's the members' job to take those opportunities. However, you will unfortunately run into people who want their hand held every step of the way and will complain every second someone isn't doing it for them. You'll have people who won't participate unless you literally drag them into something, and then they'll still complain about being left out. Aside from the cases of very small, intimate FC's, most leaders aren't gonna have the time or desire to regularly organize RP for every member of the company.
I find having a designated "RP spot" helps. Even if an FC doesn't have a house, stake out a place on the map and say, "We meet here. This is our hang out. Come here if you want to RP." That way, people know where they can go to independently find RP on company mates without feeling like they're bothering someone who may not be currently up for RP. It also helps to really encourage your members to make their own events and reward them if they do. Maybe even set up a way for members to easily create, organize, and advertise their own events for the company. And if complaining and negativity continue, sometimes you just have to be blunt and say, "If you want to RP, you have to show up for RP." Last thing I'll really stress is don't have a plot that revolves solely on the FC leader and his/her close friends or the rest of the staff and puts them on a pedestal of some sort--it makes people feel uninvolved and think there's this "cool kids club" they aren't a part of. It can discourage people from interacting with other company members in general.
Even if you do all these things, however, you still may run into someone who claims they can never find RP. I don't really know if there's much else to be done at that point but to leave it alone and wait for it to sort itself out. The options are basically:
1. They have an epiphany and realize that they'll actually have to participate in RP to find RP.
2. They don't change their habits, but they grow content with the amount of RP in which they engage and stop complaining.
3. They decide to leave the FC to find some place that will cater more to them. ->
- They find a much smaller, more involved FC that does indeed personally reach out to them more.
- They realize that the grass was not greener and ask to return to the FC. They likely settle on option 1 then, or perhaps 2, or sometimes even repeat option 3.
- They realize the grass was not greener, but don't try to rejoin the FC. Instead, it goes to option 1, 2, or 4, or circles back to option 3 again as they cycle through FC's before eventually landing on a different option.
RE: "Wallflowers" and RP - Aris - 09-14-2015
I am guilty of being the wallflower, due to nerves, and sometimes it's nice to just stand and read other people's RP. It's such a big step approaching someone, and I've had more negative experiences than positive ones, which makes the next time all the more difficult.
I don't think there is anymore someone can do than be encouraging, and welcoming, which most people here are already, and taking time from your current RP group to initiate RP with some of these flowers. But that's a big, selfless, ask, and while would be awesome not one I expect people to do.
Bigger actions like the round of drinks mentioned above is a really nice way to get lots of people involved, and an open invite that isn't as difficult to approach as, say, "/em sits and reads their book". You are reaching out to people, and then it's up to them to make the effort and be brave and go for it.
As a different solution, we could make a thread purely with ideas for conversation starters if people are stuck, and for those whose characters wouldn't necessarily start a conversation it might give them other ideas (e.g. accidently bumping into someone).
RE: "Wallflowers" and RP - Nodem - 09-14-2015
First off, I will admit I am a "Wallflower." I find it hard sometimes to interact with people, and generally don't know how to start up a conversation with them. This is because every RP'er is looking for something different, so it's hard to know what somebody is interested in. It's also difficult to tell who is actually at their keyboard at times or whom is "IC". There have been a few time where I've glanced at people and emoted it and they would send a tell "I'm OOC."
This leads to me generally waiting to see whom around me is IC, and going from there. Normally if somebody is to sit next to me at the bar for instant, I'll try to strike up a light convo.
there's also:
(09-14-2015, 03:43 PM)Aris Wrote: I am guilty of being the wallflower, due to nerves, and sometimes it's nice to just stand and read other people's RP. It's such a big step approaching someone, and I've had more negative experiences than positive ones, which makes the next time all the more difficult.
This right here... Negative RP's leave a lasting impact and make your weary of what you may next encounter.
Though I will say, the community as a whole has grown, and I've personally seen less of this then before.
The only way for the "wallflowering" to end in my opinion is, people just have to put themselves out there and see what happens, myself included. It might be hard but only a player can control whether or not they get involved in RP.
EDIT: There are other times where I'm busy in RL and will park somewhere. If something happens it does. If not, I'm not offended by it.
RE: "Wallflowers" and RP - Nebbs - 09-14-2015
To borow from social media.
1:10:100
For every person who initiated RP, there are 10 who would respond, and 100 who would just watch.
So, be a 1 when you can.
I like to help others RP, but for me the best is when someone responds and adds their own ideas into the mix. Otherwise is can be a slog.
So at least be a 10.