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If you ask me to stancedance one more fucking time.. - Printable Version

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+--- Thread: If you ask me to stancedance one more fucking time.. (/showthread.php?tid=16955)

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RE: If you ask me to stancedance one more fucking time.. - Lydia Lightfoot - 08-16-2016

(08-16-2016, 10:46 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote: Yep.  Because withstanding heavy damage - i.e. surviving - is what makes a Tank an actual Tank.  We call them a "Tank" because they survive damage like a tank.  It's actually in the name.

Historical inaccuracy.

The role of a tank is not in its ability to withstand punishment but in its ability to breach enemy positions which are otherwise fortified and would be difficult to penetrate with infantry alone due to small-arms fire (more or less the one type of attack that tanks can reliably shrug off) and barricades like razorwire which the tank literally doesn't care about whatsoever. Tanks are ordinarily accompanied by infantry who follow behind, using the tank as cover from small arms fire so that they can get into the fortified area in relative safety (relative compared to, say, not having a tank). However, in the process of this the tank is extremely exposed to attack itself, and almost any type of attack other than small arms fire has a good chance, in very short order, to turn said tank into a stationary turret or an oven full of dying crewmen. 

The one and only reason why tanks aren't destroyed more frequently is because most of the time the kinds of opponents we're using tanks against are the kinds of opponents who have an irregular supply or no supply at all of armaments besides small arms. Even then, an IED made out of total BS can disable a tank pretty effectively.

The reason why the role is called tank in an MMO is because like the military machinery, the tank's job is to charge into the fray ahead of the others. It doesn't have anything to do with resilience - a military tank is arguably easier to destroy than an infantry squad, depending on the munitions used against either the tank or the infantry.

This correction isn't relevant to the discussion. Hopefully you enjoyed learning about tanks, though.

RE: If you ask me to stancedance one more fucking time.. - Edgar - 08-16-2016

(08-16-2016, 11:08 PM)Sena Varont Wrote: *Giant History Lesson*

(08-16-2016, 11:08 PM)Sena Varont Wrote: This correction isn't relevant to the discussion. Hopefully you enjoyed learning about tanks, though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuCe7hV6Xro

I shouldn't have to say anything else, but my post will be deleted, otherwise, so...

I enjoy female roegadyn, and you should, too?

RE: If you ask me to stancedance one more fucking time.. - Lydia Lightfoot - 08-16-2016

Knowledge is never pointless. :3 It can be non-relevant, but it's never pointless.

RE: If you ask me to stancedance one more fucking time.. - Edgar - 08-16-2016

(08-16-2016, 11:28 PM)Sena Varont Wrote: Knowledge is never pointless. :3 It can be non-relevant, but it's never pointless.

Maybe, but, we're here to talk about healers and dps, not the etymology of the names used to describe the various roles and mechanics of this game. We should probably stay on topic.

RE: If you ask me to stancedance one more fucking time.. - Charity322 - 08-16-2016

Wow, this really exploded while I was asleep. I am just going to say.

[Image: 00191_zpsqe4cgvjf.jpg]
[Image: 00193_zpshhic7n7y.jpg]

RE: If you ask me to stancedance one more fucking time.. - Qwynn - 08-16-2016

Since we're now talking about the roles of tanks in warfare:

[youtube]z5ccQeumcKQ[/youtube]

Hawkeye Pierce clearly agrees that the healer doesn't need to DPS.

RE: If you ask me to stancedance one more fucking time.. - Aaron - 08-16-2016

[Image: 451930]

This thread in a nutshell

RE: If you ask me to stancedance one more fucking time.. - Parvacake - 08-17-2016

(08-16-2016, 02:51 PM)McBeef© Wrote: The funny part to me is how people are like proud of how bad they are. Like, "Heh I'm the healer and I'll just let them die if they complain." or "It's the 'let's see how low I let your health drop until I mass burst you back to full health and give you cardiac arrest 4 times in one EX Roul.'"
Wink

RE: If you ask me to stancedance one more fucking time.. - Edda - 08-17-2016

Don't you sometimes wish you could perfectly tank and heal at the same time? I usually do Experts as a healer because I'm not partial towards running 4-man content with Heal-Only Types and I'm confident that muh deeps can help get the run done faster. But then you get the tank that never pulls more than one pack of trash at a time... or they DO but they don't use any cooldown thus gimping your DPS opportunities.

So... then you queue as a tank because FUCK that, and then you get the healer that doesn't DPS - worse, it's a SCH. You even pull timidly at first and shuffle your cooldowns accordingly, but it doesn't matter. Nothing. Sometimes they might throw out a non-Cleric'd Aero or Bio as if they think they're Toto-Rak or some shit. That's it. Every time you tank it's as if all the Holy Bombing 360 Stone-scoped healers have dispersed into aether.

DPS... doesn't matter. You want the faster queue time and the DPS are either going to be great or magnificently incompetent. Worth a gamble. The only time you'll ever experience an in-between is when you bite the bullet and wait 15-20 minutes, and your co-partner is a MCH that doesn't use Hot Shot because he thinks Gauss Barrel cancels it out.

So anyway... what I'm trying to say is: You just can't win in this game. Try and have fun, though.

RE: If you ask me to stancedance one more fucking time.. - Valence - 08-17-2016

I think that taking outright the descriptions done by the MARKETING department on SE website is what is disingenuous here, really... ._.

Especially when SE actual devs seem to have heated internal debates on how heal DPS should be considered.

(08-16-2016, 09:38 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote:
(08-16-2016, 09:36 PM)Caspar Wrote: Technically speaking, if the monster dies faster, it does less damage to the party, and therefore there is less effective healing needed? Granted, this also applies to the tank. I often joke that my tanking style is "if I kill it fast, nobody takes damage and therefore I tanked it for them."

But then again, that's kinda my point. DPS is a shared responsibility in this game, moreso than in other MMO, it seems. I don't know any other way to explain it. Combat roles have more than one purpose.*Shrug*

I remain unconvinced that Healer or Tank damage is necessary in Experts unless the DPS are complete failures at the game.

I also remain unconvinced that it's necessary or wise to expect raid-level performance from people pugging through a random-match system.

And I further remain unconvinced that any of this justifies the kind of abuse I've witnessed in the Roulette system.

I'll not speak about failures here. For example, your average DPS in expert will not always go above 1000-1200 DPS. I consider a DPS above that to be a good DPS (even if they could do above 1500 and be a very good DPS).

1000 DPS is what I reach with a damn WhM when tank is doing a good job and nothing stupid happens. In half of my games I'm just below them, and top DPS on some packed pulls when I unleash everything I have.

Now, just make the math really. 20-30% less time spent on mobs, with 20-30% healing less, or even more since tank cooldowns wear off after a point so you need to heal even more.

No kind of abuse will ever be justified though. That's another issue.

RE: If you ask me to stancedance one more fucking time.. - Warren Castille - 08-17-2016

Threads like this are seen by up and coming healers. I'm not sure whether it alleviates their concerns, or multiplies them.

RE: If you ask me to stancedance one more fucking time.. - Knislinge - 08-17-2016

(08-17-2016, 07:44 AM)Warren Castille Wrote: Threads like this are seen by up and coming healers. I'm not sure whether it alleviates their concerns, or multiplies them.

Oh, I can answer that. It multiplies them tenfold.

RE: If you ask me to stancedance one more fucking time.. - Melkire - 08-17-2016

(08-17-2016, 07:44 AM)Warren Castille Wrote: Threads like this are seen by up and coming healers. I'm not sure whether it alleviates their concerns, or multiplies them.

To be honest, I think that depends on a great many factors.

1. How new are they to MMORPGs?
2. Have they ever played a healing class in a MMORPG before?
2a. If so, what archetype?
3. How's their situational awareness?
4. How confident are they in their ability to multitask under pressure?
5. How do they approach, handle, accept, and/or refute concerns or criticisms regarding their performance?

...but then, this thread hasn't really been about up and coming healers, so I'm not entirely sure why they should be concerned with or by this thread.


EDIT: When I started healing as CNJ/WHM in FFXIV, my only previous experience with a healer class had been SWTOR's Medicine Operative. I knew from playing through FFXIV as WAR and MNK -- and from reading these forums -- that I'd need to learn how to Cleric Stance and DPS... not to fulfill expectations but to contribute my best. It was intimidating as hell at first, because Med Op had been mostly instant heals and instant HoTs coupled with low-cost attacks. But you know what? I had sixty levels in which to learn how to do so, how to stance-dance. And I did, with my fair share of mistakes along the way.

EDIT 2:



RE: If you ask me to stancedance one more fucking time.. - Teadrinker - 08-17-2016

[Mod Plague Doctor's Mask]

This thread has been cleaned up once and further inflammatory posts resulting in additional reports are now seeing to it's closure. It had a good life but it's time to put it down.

[/Mod Plague Doctor's Mask]

P.S. Anastasia is a great movie.