Hydaelyn Role-Players
Magic and how that shi works - Printable Version

+- Hydaelyn Role-Players (https://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/mybb18)
+-- Forum: Community (https://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/mybb18/forumdisplay.php?fid=8)
+--- Forum: Lore Discussion (https://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/mybb18/forumdisplay.php?fid=49)
+--- Thread: Magic and how that shi works (/showthread.php?tid=20440)

Magic and how that shi works - Elmeric - 08-24-2017

Okay so this may be odd, may have been answered already, or what have you but I am rather new to this whole thing and am very curious about how people think of this.

I have roleplayed for a LONG time but very rarely do I dabble with magic rather than just a good natural sword and board. Of course, the one time I decide to go magically inclined I decide to do it in a game where I cannot tell the difference of each magick so I am here...on my knees...begging you all for your glorious supply of knowledge. 


What is the difference between aether, magic, and succor?

I intend to play a healer of sorts, purely conjurer with some elemental affinities to match but I am curious how that works.
For example:

What skills does WHM itself carry versus conjurer? 
Also we have skills like bards flaming arrows, and dragoons using their Dragonfire dive. Are they super charging aether and making a flame or can a skilled magic user simply call fire forth like conjurers do the other elements?

What exactly is aether? I know it is in all living things but can you hyper focus aether and create something new?

Can only the conjurers manipulate elements wind/water/ such and such?

And the last question which is going to seem odd in comparison... what is with the chirurgeons in Ishgard? Are they just a fancy name for conjurers or do they handle differently? 

Any help is greatly appreciated, thank you all so much

RE: Magic and how that shi works - Sounsyy - 08-24-2017

Firstly, lemme link you a couple of pages which have the lore behind a lot of your questions:
- Aetherology and Magic Lore Index
- Long-term Injury, Limitations of Healing Magicks, and Non-magical Healing Lore


________________________
(08-24-2017, 05:25 PM)Elmeric Wrote: What is the difference between aether, magic, and succor? What exactly is aether? I know it is in all living things but can you hyper focus aether and create something new?

Aether is the lifeblood of Hydaelyn. It is the basic building block of all life.
Any manipulation of that aether in a way that is unnatural to aether's basic flow is what we call "magic."
Succor is a form of magic, purposed primarily towards healing, as the word implies. It is most commonly associated with White Magic, which was "discovered" by the magi of the Amdapor civilization close to 2000 years ago as a counter to the Black Magic of the Mhach. However, in the modern time, the Padjal are succor's only living wielders.

Encyclopedia Eorzea - Basic Aetherology Wrote:Within all beings - whether it be man, animal, or even plant - does aether flow. It is the spark which grants life to the lifeless. Conversely, death can be said to occur once aether has left a corporeal object. From this it is clear to see why many scholars use the words “life” and “aether” interchangeably. It can be assumed that a young man of sound mind and body will possess a high concentration of aetherial energy in his humours, whereas an older man, or one inflicted with corruption, will not. Some scholars have expanded upon this hypothesis saying that the consumption of food serves not only to fill the belly, but to provide the body with aether lost through exertion.

Aether is not by any means static. It constantly flows though creation, forming currents through earth, water, and air which ensure that life is sustained throughout the world. The stoppage of these currents would be akin to the atrophication of a limb cut off from the heart. Aether is the lifeblood of Hydaelyn, and without it She - and Her children - would perish.

Manipulation of aether in a manner that deviates from its natural tendencies is what scholars call “magic.” While the various schools of magic such as thaumaturgy and conjury all employ differing methods to achieve this goal, the basic concept is the same.

A similar, yet more primitive type of aetherial manipulation can also be seen in non-sentient beings. A raptor breathing fire or a biast generating a levin-like shock are all examples of lesser-born creatures utilizing the aether within their bodies or available from the nearby environment to hunt or protect themselves from harm.

Aetherial energies can be divided into six distinctive elements - fire, wind, lightning, water, ice, and earth. These elements provide nature with “aspects” that govern how they act in the world. For example, a region where aetherial currents are aspected towards fire will generally be hotter and drier than a region featuring primarily ice-aspected currents - a region likely to be characterized by frigid climes. The same can be said for the flora and fauna that populate an area. Seedkin aspected towards wind can navigate the skies as if they were winged cloudkin. Scalekin aspected towards earth will exhibit lithified skin protecting them from sharp-fanged predators. In addition to the six elements, there also exist two poles - astral and umbral - which greatly influence the nature of the elements - an astral charge bringing more activity, while an umbral charge resulting in more passiveness. For example, when in an astral state, fire exhibits high volatility, where its umbral state is characterized by dryness.


________________________
(08-24-2017, 05:25 PM)Elmeric Wrote: What skills does WHM itself carry versus conjurer? Can only the conjurers manipulate elements wind/water/ such and such?

The easiest way to divide the skills between Conjurer and White Mage is to do it by class vs job lines, though there is some gray area between the two. Skills like Pulse of Life, Benediction, Holy, and Asylum are specifically noted in the lore book as White Magic. However, the basic spellcasting elements drawn from nature lean more towards conjury.

Conjury is actually a different form of magic to succor. It was taught to the peoples of Gelmorra by the moogles some 500 years ago in order to communicate with the elementals of the Twelveswood. In turn, the elementals formed the Padjal race from several early Hyuran conjurer families and taught to them the art of Succor.

As for what a conjurer can manipulate- in the lore, conjurers can actually manipulate all six elements. However, there are other magical arts out there which may be able to replicate similar talents. Sharlayan's Studium and Ishgard's Scholasticate both teach conjury to their students, though these forms are likely different to Gridanian conjury taught in the Stillglade Fane, which has different religious context or traditions to it than in other places. Ala Mhigan shamans also exist, and while the specifics of their magic aren't yet known, they can also be seen using conjury-like spells and staves.


________________________
(08-24-2017, 05:25 PM)Elmeric Wrote: Also we have skills like bards flaming arrows, and dragoons using their Dragonfire dive. Are they super charging aether and making a flame or can a skilled magic user simply call fire forth like conjurers do the other elements?

All of the classes and jobs are able to manipulate aether in some way. Some more than others. Monks, for example, manipulate the aether in their bodies to strengthen and accelerate. A gladiator may focus his aether into his blade to create a flash. There's a little bit more on that topic here in this older thread.


________________________
(08-24-2017, 05:25 PM)Elmeric Wrote: And the last question which is going to seem odd in comparison... what is with the chirurgeons in Ishgard? Are they just a fancy name for conjurers or do they handle differently?

Chirurgeon is just a very old word meaning doctor or more literally, surgeon.

Ishgardian chirurgeons may employ magics learned from the Saint Endalim's Scholasticate, but they are also versed in a number of non-magical healing methods, some of which are explored in the links above. Chirurgeons also exist in other places, but mostly in Gridania, a nation closely allied with Ishgard. In Ul'dah, you'll often hear their healers (alchemists) referred to as Phrontists, and in Limsa, many refer to the arcanists at Mealvaan's as "scholarlies." But phrontists and chirurgeons and "cutters" exist also.


Hope this helps! ^^

RE: Magic and how that shi works - Unnamed Mercenary - 08-24-2017

Hiya there!

There are some great lore compilations from in-game, 1.0, lorebook, dev posts that have been written up by one of our resident loremongers, Sounsyy.

The Lore Index pinned in the Lore Discussions has most of them, but a few still need to be dug up with manual searches here and on tumblr.

For magic, specifically White Magic / Succor, I'd start with these ones:

You'll find that some of the links above likely repeat the same information or may link to each other, but they should give you plenty of information on how magic was designed to work in FFXIV's universe. Do note I haven't linked additional writeups on other schools of magic and magical societies, so the list is not complete!

To give you some quick answers though, here's how I know it.

Quote:What is the difference between aether, magic, and succor?

Aether is the building blocks of all life. It's in all things, living or otherwise. Think of it as like raw energy. Magic is one manipulation of aether. How it's manipulated and shaped depends on the school of magic. Succor is a specific school of magic, also known as White Magic. It was common during the 5th Astral Era during the War of Magi and initially created by the Elementals to return balance to the world due to the destructive Black Magic used by the mages of Mhach. It led to the 6th Umbral Calamity and its knowledge was sealed off and hidden in the Black Shroud. Later, the Elementals turned children in Padjals and they were granted knowledge of Succor. Only the Warrior of Light / Main-Character has so-far been the exception to learn White Magic.

Quote:What skills does WHM itself carry versus conjurer?

Game-mechanics, all of it. Lore/IC, they're entirely different schools of magic and aren't quite comparable like that. While they use the same tools and most people likely wouldn't know the difference of being healed by either, how a caster uses aether to perform the spells is different.

Quote:Can only the conjurers manipulate elements wind/water/ such and such?

No. That's purely a game mechanic. Previously, conjurers had access to the full elemental wheel in game (1.0). Lore-wise, they continue to. I'll see if I can find the Elemental Wheel Lore. There was a writeup just recently. Edit: Here's the link to The Elemental Wheel, Astral and Umbral lore.

Quote:And the last question which is going to seem odd in comparison... what is with the chirurgeons in Ishgard? Are they just a fancy name for conjurers or do they handle differently?

Chirurgeon is just an old-timey way of writing "surgeon." Chances are, they're using a form of conjurey.

RE: Magic and how that shi works - Elmeric - 08-24-2017

;A; You both were so helpful omg thank you

RE: Magic and how that shi works - Valence - 08-25-2017

I don't have much to add to both already very exhaustive answers.

Just expanding on the difference between white magic and conjury, as said above, is not small. Both are a different art of magic, much like black magic is different from thaumaturgy. While both conjury and white magic relay on similar ways to focus their magic, using prayers, attuning to the land around, white magic basically has access to Hydaelyn's aether where conjury only borrows from elementals and the immediate land around (the same way that a black magic draws from Hydaelyn while thaumaturgy only from your own body). 

This means that the energy at the disposal of a white mage is nothing alike. The art of Succor also, is much, much more than just healing and casting a few elemental spells. It relies a lot on shielding, barriers and such, as well as animating golems (like seen in Amdapor), sealing voidsent, etc. It can also deploy devastating spells like Holy, for example. I would assume that in the old Amdapory society, there was probably a lot of different fields of study in White Magic considering how it was everything to them, and how extensive it was (much like Black and Void magic were everything to Mhach).