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True Neutral and Quiet Characters? - Arashin Kujqai - 12-11-2017
Hi there, normally I don't use the alignment system for my writing but I've noticed my recent char falls very far in line with "True Neutral" while also having a quiet/monotone demeanor. Aside from looking for a hook with another character, I've been struggling to initiate or find RP with him compared to my other characters. Normally I don't have an issue RP'ing a silent character, as I can at least make positive or negative focuses on sight, facial expressions, motions, and etc... However with a character as borderline neutral as it gets with having no opinion of good/evil or happiness/sadness, I'm not quite sure how to go about in RP without heavily relying on someone else walking up or having another character as a hook.
I was wondering if anyone could provide me with some characters/anime/movies/anything of a character you may find like this for me to study or some general recommendations for RP. Someone did give me some decent advice that put into perspective how I should open up more to doing things my char would find interesting out of personal gain than trying to preserve a sense of neutrality to everything. Aside from that though, I can't think of any examples or situations I can apply that in well enough to start RP with openly. Being monotone means he won't show a bias expressions and being neutral makes him indifferent to people's decisions. I feel like I know I've seen t his type of character elsewhere but I can't recall where... Anywho, tips?
RE: True Neutral and Quiet Characters? - Gegenji - 12-11-2017
He may be "true neutral," but doesn't he still have things he wants or desires? Or skills that might interest other people? Those could get someone interacting with him - with the former giving reason for him to approach other people (because he needs/wants something) or for other people to approach him (because they need/want something from him).
Or, in a general sense, discuss OOCly with the person you're trying to interact with to see why the two would do so. If the character themself is disinclined to engage, you kind of have to for them via OOC planning.
RE: True Neutral and Quiet Characters? - Arashin Kujqai - 12-11-2017
(12-11-2017, 03:19 PM)Gegenji Wrote: He may be "true neutral," but doesn't he still have things he wants or desires? Or skills that might interest other people? Those could get someone interacting with him - with the former giving reason for him to approach other people (because he needs/wants something) or for other people to approach him (because they need/want something from him).Aside from maybe minor details like particular foods or something, not really I think? I mean, he's kinda made a goal to smite anyone who's obsessed or insane in following some faith blindly (kinda like some Ishgardians and how they see Halone as an example). However that too is kinda a requirement on others in a way and I don't want him going up to everyone basically going "DO YOU WORSHIP A FALSE GOD? I CAN HELP!!!!!" banging his sword against their head lmao.
Or, in a general sense, discuss OOCly with the person you're trying to interact with to see why the two would do so. If the character themself is disinclined to engage, you kind of have to for them via OOC planning.
He's a dark knight that hasn't shown his face or anything that he's human for the most part. I've used some cryptic hooks like suspicions of a walking armor suit or a strange au ra following people without saying anything but that doesn't get too much apparently. I guess there is always OOC approaching but I was hoping for something more IC for casual RP if you have any advice around that? With as little character breaking or prepared setup as possible to keep a few factors in tact for the IC RP.
RE: True Neutral and Quiet Characters? - Gegenji - 12-11-2017
(12-11-2017, 03:33 PM)Arashin Kujqai Wrote: I guess there is always OOC approaching but I was hoping for something more IC for casual RP if you have any advice around that? With as little character breaking or prepared setup as possible to keep a few factors in tact for the IC RP.
That's... kind of the drawback of playing a character who is quiet and not really willing to engage or make themselves approachable. Unless you can create a situation where the character will attract interest, or your character has reason to interact with someone else... you are going to struggle regarding a more organic IC walkup approach.
Especially since, from the sound of the character... he doesn't sound like the "casual" sort. Unless he has casual things he can do that can engender interaction, finding casual RP is going to be troublesome.
... Maybe have his "in-armor" form be more of an alter-ego sort of thing? He's cold and distant and quiet while in his armor, but is more approachable and friendly out of it? That way you can have two sorts of "modes" - one intense one for the more serious RP, and a more approachable one for casual RP.
After all, Batman is intense, but Bruce Wayne's a social butterfly.
RE: True Neutral and Quiet Characters? - Arashin Kujqai - 12-11-2017
(12-11-2017, 03:44 PM)Gegenji Wrote:No joke I considered that and yeah it's getting more and more batman by the day LOL. I considered it, here's some other factors that I'm kinda trying to keep though that is keeping me from that idea.(12-11-2017, 03:33 PM)Arashin Kujqai Wrote: I guess there is always OOC approaching but I was hoping for something more IC for casual RP if you have any advice around that? With as little character breaking or prepared setup as possible to keep a few factors in tact for the IC RP.
That's... kind of the drawback of playing a character who is quiet and not really willing to engage or make themselves approachable. Unless you can create a situation where the character will attract interest, or your character has reason to interact with someone else... you are going to struggle regarding a more organic IC walkup approach.
Especially since, from the sound of the character... he doesn't sound like the "casual" sort. Unless he has casual things he can do that can engender interaction, finding casual RP is going to be troublesome.
... Maybe have his "in-armor" form be more of an alter-ego sort of thing? He's cold and distant and quiet while in his armor, but is more approachable and friendly out of it? That way you can have two sorts of "modes" - one intense one for the more serious RP, and a more approachable one for casual RP.
After all, Batman is intense, but Bruce Wayne's a social butterfly.
- Attempting to literally save face, by never showing what he looks like under the helm unless TRULY necessary. Both ICly and OOCly as to shock players who do RP with him and this incident happens. To get a more genuine sense out of a face reveal reaction.
- His personality basically was the social butterfly, helpful sort and has gone from that to 0 pretty much. I kinda want to keep him that way regardless of the armor on or off to make for funnier/better situations he could get involved in.
- I'm also trying to convey that sense of "I'm unclear" you get from a qestir. That lack of expression and tone in voice that allows someone to evaluate a character, I'm trying to have it be completely blank to further keep cryptic ideas and possibly creative preemptive motivations for others to engage him because of how mysterious he is. That sorta "what are you" feeling.
You're not wrong though at all, I do see I've made quite a fence to jump over for this character lol. He's not the sort to go into quicksand for a casual drink or something and I have setup some situations to RP with people outside in the open map too. It's rare to find though and aimlessly wandering(as spot on as it would be for his character) doesn't seem to pull anyone since everyone's in the QS most of the time or in housing areas.
I'm a bit embarrassed to share this because it's still a lil WiP with backstory I need to put in of who he used to be and of course it's edgey but... Here's his tumblr if that'll give any insight to him at all.
http://the-darkness-thunders.tumblr.com/
Needless to say, I'm running out of ideas for blog entries/rumors/things to post, but it is just a bio I guess.
RE: True Neutral and Quiet Characters? - Shadottie - 12-11-2017
The quiet types are definitely a lot of work. I have a couple myself! ..I find myself constantly apologizing during RP or after since they're so reactionary. xD There's all sorts of hooks you can do! One of my characters has a pet puppy that gets into all sorts of trouble around strangers and helps her get out of her reserved shell. I totally dig RPing out in the world-- a daunting task when it comes to finding any, or braving setting something up with someone else interested!
 It may take arranging RP consistently for now, and there's nothing wrong with that! It sounds like a super cool concept and it's really too bad you're struggling to find some solid RP! And holy crap, reading the tribe's lore? That is some mega attention to detail and care for development! I love it! I'm on the boat of rooting for you to stick with your guns and do what makes you happy for Arashin! You'll be happier for it, I promise. Don't ever compromise your story ideas for the sake of falling in a groove with others.
You'll find others that are interested by reaching out like this-- like me! I'd so be down for throwing a character at you to learn about Arashin via RP! c:
RE: True Neutral and Quiet Characters? - Arashin Kujqai - 12-11-2017
(12-11-2017, 04:43 PM)Shadottie Wrote: The quiet types are definitely a lot of work. I have a couple myself! ..I find myself constantly apologizing during RP or after since they're so reactionary. xD There's all sorts of hooks you can do! One of my characters has a pet puppy that gets into all sorts of trouble around strangers and helps her get out of her reserved shell. I totally dig RPing out in the world-- a daunting task when it comes to finding any, or braving setting something up with someone else interested!Thanks XD but this thread's actually about my other Kujqai character lol. Arashin's in a solid place where he is atm, loud, always up for a little chaos, but still learning to be a proper leader. I actually don't touch Arashin too much lately unless he's in someone's long term plot or I feel like casually strolling around somewhere lol. The char I'm working on now I posted their tumblr above :p.
 It may take arranging RP consistently for now, and there's nothing wrong with that! It sounds like a super cool concept and it's really too bad you're struggling to find some solid RP! And holy crap, reading the tribe's lore? That is some mega attention to detail and care for development! I love it! I'm on the boat of rooting for you to stick with your guns and do what makes you happy for Arashin! You'll be happier for it, I promise. Don't ever compromise your story ideas for the sake of falling in a groove with others.
You'll find others that are interested by reaching out like this-- like me! I'd so be down for throwing a character at you to learn about Arashin via RP! c:
RE: True Neutral and Quiet Characters? - Shadottie - 12-11-2017
(12-11-2017, 04:50 PM)Arashin Kujqai Wrote: Thanks XD but this thread's actually about my other Kujqai character lol. Arashin's in a solid place where he is atm, loud, always up for a little chaos, but still learning to be a proper leader. I actually don't touch Arashin too much lately unless he's in someone's long term plot or I feel like casually strolling around somewhere lol. The char I'm working on now I posted their tumblr above :p.
Whoops! My bad-- I even looked at the tumblr and everything! xD; Coffee, please kick in.
Regardless, I still stand by my statement for Nashan! (: The internet's full of introverts and that doesn't typically change with RP. We're all shy bugs that want to be bugged, usually.
I also failed to notice you're on Mateus. ;; I'd hope RP there is just as consistent as it is on Balmung anymore, and I wish you luck in wandering about! If you're not opposed to discord RP, I'd like to poke you!
RE: True Neutral and Quiet Characters? - Arashin Kujqai - 12-11-2017
(12-11-2017, 04:58 PM)Shadottie Wrote:Tbh, I'm finding less and less reason to log onto my Balmung char lately, it feels that much like Balmung already on Mateus I guess lol. Ty though o/ I'm not too opposed to it but I do tend to prefer in game unless I'm without a choice lol.(12-11-2017, 04:50 PM)Arashin Kujqai Wrote: Thanks XD but this thread's actually about my other Kujqai character lol. Arashin's in a solid place where he is atm, loud, always up for a little chaos, but still learning to be a proper leader. I actually don't touch Arashin too much lately unless he's in someone's long term plot or I feel like casually strolling around somewhere lol. The char I'm working on now I posted their tumblr above :p.
Whoops! My bad-- I even looked at the tumblr and everything! xD; Â Coffee, please kick in.
Regardless, I still stand by my statement for Nashan! (: The internet's full of introverts and that doesn't typically change with RP. Â We're all shy bugs that want to be bugged, usually.
I also failed to notice you're on Mateus. Â ;; I'd hope RP there is just as consistent as it is on Balmung anymore, and I wish you luck in wandering about! If you're not opposed to discord RP, I'd like to poke you!
RE: True Neutral and Quiet Characters? - Ruran - 12-11-2017
I have a few quiet/neutral characters myself, and it all comes down to motivation. What spurs them forward? What drives them to action? What do they need? Everyone needs something, whether it's supplies or healing or work—or more complex, like the need to protect, redeem, hide, or feel fulfilled. It's by pinpointing their motivations, and the reason behind them, that will make connecting with others a whole lot easier.
A quiet and neutral/monotone character that immediately comes to mind is Ginko from the manga/anime series Mushishi. He's largely neutral to what is taking place, and instead he focuses on remedying the situation according to necessity. The episodes are slow and thoughtful, and it's the bizarre situations around him that reveal more about Ginko, not dialogue.
Another character is Max from Mad Max. He barely says anything, and he's very neutral to the world as a whole. He's driven by survival, only speaking when he needs something, or when he's actively trying to connect. Max is a genius protagonist in that by simply existing, he allows the other characters around him to shine. Maybe trying to find a way for your character to support others' goals, is an idea.
There's a great guide about 'Loner'/quiet characters here:
http://nerobombs.tumblr.com/post/157461161197/writing-loners
And this one:
http://northhelps.tumblr.com/post/59977746247/every-trait-has-its-underlying-reasons-in-this
Hope that helps!
RE: True Neutral and Quiet Characters? - Nero - 12-11-2017
(12-11-2017, 06:34 PM)Ruran Wrote: There's a great guide about 'Loner'/quiet characters here:
http://nerobombs.tumblr.com/post/157461161197/writing-loners
And this one:
http://northhelps.tumblr.com/post/59977746247/every-trait-has-its-underlying-reasons-in-this
Hope that helps!
Lordy, I was a condescending twat in that post. I'll fix that.
To add to what's been said, "quiet" or "reserved" characters need not necessarily be antisocial. What I mean by that is, the fact that they keep to themselves doesn't need to reflect in whether or not they engage with people.
Basically, think of it as like a four-box spectrum, with the x-axis being extraversion and the y-axis being confidence.
An introverted, meek character is shy.
An introverted, confident character is reserved.
An extroverted meek character is....well, I don't know what a good term for it is. "Approachable", maybe?
An extroverted confident character is outgoing.
Rather than having your character be stoic and leaning on walls and refusing to talk to people, reflect their reserved nature by how they talk to people. Initiate contact with short, terse phrases that reflect a sort of efficiency in communication. Just because your character is quiet and reserved doesn't mean they never make contact with others.
RE: True Neutral and Quiet Characters? - Arashin Kujqai - 12-11-2017
This actually helps a ton, I think I need to identify some areas on him to figure it out but I have a direction to study now. Ty! I may actually bump this if I'm still stuck later on, just piecing together his personality and working out the dents.
EDIT: So after a LOT of reading and analysis of the character that I apparently skipped over when I thought of him initially... I started answering a few of the questions brought by the links above thanks to Ruran and Nero. Finally stopped when I started getting a headache about concluding how to fix the main issue.
To start, lemme just say to Nero, don't change the following article because it gave me such an epiphany I've never had with a character.
"And here’s the key about it: ask how the solitude affects the character. Do NOT ask how the circumstances that lead to their solitude affects the character. There is a very clear difference."
I realized I hadn't asked either of these and just jumped head first into it figuring that's just how it should be. The circumstances that lead to his silent/neutral personality is due to feeling lied to up to that point through his entire life by being revealed a truth about his religion/tribe(that he was very loyal to and kept dearly to him). How would the solitude affect the character currently however... The truth is, it doesn't. He's been nearly reborn in his perspective of life and newfound powers, he looks at everyone with curiosity but also hesitation and doubt. He was lied to and fallen for a belief he now perceives as fake, he wouldn't be like to trust someone or anyone so easily with how recent he was changed. In other words, the REASON he doesn't talk and he's so neutral, is because he's scared deep down to trust again, it already broke him before... What would happen if it all happened again in this state? At the same time, by ditching everything he's known up to now, he's looking at everything from a safe and pragmatic distance. He's no longer letting anything cloud his perception with beliefs or what he would call "false interpretations" to take on life from this point on. This is what leads to his neutral personality, so that he doesn't see good/bad/order/chaos. He's wanting to be quiet as to not be a variable to what reality's natural order is going about(aka, a person orders a drink, the bartender gives them poison instead, what will the person do?) His new persona is trying to find new meaning and reason to exist.
The problem with that last part though is that it feels conflicting with his personality a bit. You'd think a normally curious person would be at least more interested in activities or anything that's going on, especially if it meant to learn more about the world around them. In Nashan's case, he has some perspective to the world's more petty side and doesn't want any part of that since it's burned him several times before in his past. So his inner conflict of not trusting anyone, being confused as to what his purpose in life is now, who to believe or what to do with himself, and this "spectator" perspective he's taken, has lead him to hold no bias(neutral) and be quiet to himself(as not to conflict with natural life and it's continuity). While all of this fits... It still leaves me with the "how do I promote that forward into involving more characters than just himself" issue.
Also taking into consideration what Nero said "Just because your character is quiet and reserved doesn't mean they never make contact with others." This is true, he wouldn't be quiet if he truly needed something or a moment calls for it. However, beyond maybe asking for a drink or something.. the character simply wouldn't ask much of others and would trust his own instincts more than most. So I still end up having little to work with, but have opened up more potential at the very least. He's definitely an introvert but still confident of himself now that he's shut out everything/everyone else to himself with powers from the soul crystal.... So being reserved is still there, but he still wouldn't quite make small talk with anyone unless he needed to which goes into my next paragraph.
"Everyone needs something, whether it's supplies or healing or work—or more complex, like the need to protect, redeem, hide, or feel fulfilled." This one had me thinking a while after I figured out the above (and other things I probably haven't mentioned because this is already long enough). If anything, he's looking to feel fulfilled as said. Questions like "why do I exist now" or "what of others who believe in faith so false as my own" would ring through his head I imagine. So I'm closing in on the idea of what he needs/wants at least but it's conflicting with the former of his personality. Let's say he wants to be a self righteous warrior now, destroying/killing/proving to believers their gods aren't real or they will only bring them false hope(I feel like I'm doing MSQ again) so that he can feel fulfilled that no one else suffers the same fate he has. Maybe he believes his own truth is beyond the comprehension of others, and freeing people of those false beliefs is what makes him feel whole now? Let's pretend we went with that... doesn't that go against his non-biased personality that he has? To involve himself in the things he's trying to learn from, on "how to be" would break that analytical side of his neutral/stoic personality.
So for now, the only loophole for him being involved more in RP is by having another person as a hook. Being their bodyguard just as a means to learn about the world while still only being just a figurative(and literal?) shield for someone's physical being. Not particularly siding with them, but rather serving his own curiosity by keeping them alive throughout their own endeavors. That way, as good or evil the person may be, he can forge his own beliefs as the characters evolve more. The problem with this currently is that it's too reliant on having a long term RP partner.
Alone... I don't know how exactly to handle him for any type of RP alone. The most I've done with him was typing out inner thoughts (like that one link mentioned, though I find it can lead to confusion or some form of abuse when I do it, so I try to stray from it when I can) and attended a song/dance play event out of curiosity. If I rely on the concept of typing out thoughts alone, I feel like people may mistake that as actual actions/happenings to use rather than just interpretation from it.
tl;dr: I've identified his reasons for how he is and why he would be now, but haven't quite identified a viable solution to the reliance on others to walk up to him for RP engagements. I think I just need to think of more hooks to use as an excuse to engage in more casual RP or really need that bodyguard thing I mentioned. If anyone else has any tips beyond this, I welcome it @.@. Or anything I may've glossed over that you could suggest for him too. I'm going to be away somewhere for a long time of the day tomorrow and would love anything that'll get me brainstorming to resolve this. Already looking into some books at my library and watching some mentioned examples in the thread already. To anyone that actually read all this, you deserve a gold star.
RE: True Neutral and Quiet Characters? - Rin'li - 12-16-2017
I play a more true neutral character as well, but that doesn't mean they have to have no emotion, or have no goals, or that they're completely incompetent socially. I tend to see True Neutral more as the pragmatist. They'll do whatever it takes to achieve their goals with no regard whether that might be good, evil, or something in between.
They're guided by their own practical considerations, aren't held back by what society might consider good or evil, but neither does that make them wholly either. While an evil character would never self sacrifice, a Neutral would, if they felt it would be for the greater good, but even then, they might commit evil acts to protect another, themselves, or their ideals.
True Neutral is a world of greys. They walk the line between good and evil, and they're really interesting characters for it.
RE: True Neutral and Quiet Characters? - Valence - 12-16-2017
I don't have the time to read absolutely everything, so my apologies. I think most already answered that true neutral =/= apathy.Â
I'm experienced in playing such kinds of characters so maybe I can provide examples, even if I swapped to chaotic characters when coming to TOR and then FFXIV since those settings are very expressive and "romantic" (not in the sense of love) and are pretty great for those kinds of characters.
Played a true neutral librarian/bookworm character with a social anxiety streak (Shrinking Violet ) in eve online and that for 8 years or so. I guess the character was engaging since I had very little issues interacting or finding people. The only problem as usual is how to initiate something since you have to rely on others to do it for you, and so you have to provoke them to do so. And the setting didn't make it exactly easy to find hooks and stories (complex setting with a lot of political sugarcoat is always more tricky to play and be creative in than a high fantasy adventure).
But in any case, that character was driven, and certainly not apathetic. They would do anything to discover new books and obscure texts and whatnot. They would engage very easily and surprisingly socially over the internet if a discussion or debate proved interesting and academic, and then would shrink back to their introverted self after. A bit like yours their view would sometimes clash with the bigoted and sometimes zealous ideals of the people in their own faction and they were often embroiled in political threats and struggles against their will, but being true neutral it was a matter of honor to hold their ground instead of yielding.
If you're after true neutral anime characters, the first thing that comes to mind and that I can only recommend is Kino's Journey main character, Kino, who is the perfect archetype of a true neutral character, and who also almost never takes directly part in each episode except a few ones, preferring to watch and observe most of the time. Can be insightful (and the writing is outstanding).
RE: True Neutral and Quiet Characters? - Wintwyda - 01-05-2018
Kind of skimmed a lot of this thread. Also don't think this is a judgement of you personally. I haven't ever interacted with you directly, and you don't strike me as a bad RPer/trouble person, just someone who has a character idea they really like but don't know how to make it RPable.
However, I suspect the "I need another RPer to do the bodyguard thing with me so I can RP my character" might be coming off as OOCly needy in a way that might be setting off subconscious alarm bells for people. Completely by accident, and I'm sure if someone took the time to RP stuff out with you they'd find out those alarm bells aren't well founded, but at least for me I know a had the "Eek!" reaction the first time I saw the "be my bodyguardee!" posts in the Mateus discord (yeah I'm a lurker, I'm looking for events to jump in on)
I've RPed with the kind of partner who was dependent on me for all their RP hooks. I think most RPers have had one of those. And while at first it was "yay, steady RP buddy!" it turned into posessiveness and frustration when I was playing my own character in a way that didn't feed his RP needs. Everyone who comes to RP does so because they have characters living in their head that they want to let "live" in some way - and it sucked to feel like someone felt entitled to having my character feed his personal fantasy rather than just letting her be her and seeing what happened.
Â
tl;dr - yeah you should def. work toward having him function independently, I think it will help people engage with you more.
As for how to do that... what kinds of people pique his interest in particular? If he saw another Dark Knight, for example, might he approach them? If he overheard another character talking about how religion is bullshit, might he feel like joining that conversation?
If you know what characters he'd play well with but you're just having trouble with the approach, IME the quick OOC tell saying "hey! I'm interested in joining your RP if you don't mind but my character doesn't really approach strangers, can we work something out?" works waaaaaayyyyy better than sitting in a corner emoting your thoughts. It comes across as more cooperative.
Maybe you could give him a job for right now that he hates and he's looking to get out of. Like he's a blacksmith or something, but it's boring and repetitive and he longs for an opportunity to branch out and go places. Maybe right now he's bodyguarding for an NPC who is obnoxious/a terrible person/super religious so he's gritting his teeth and looking for a reason to jump ship. Give him something to do, and he'll bring something to the table for other characters to play off of.
Maybe give him an unexpected quirk? Juxtaposition of opposing character themes can be pretty fun and strike people's interest. So he's the masked armored guy who almost never speaks, but maybe he can be seen sitting in the corner reading the Eorzean equivalent of a superhero comic (or Haropo Popoto and the Scholar's Soulstone).