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RE: Nobles? - Seohyun - 07-02-2013
I know a few players actually roleplay being nobles. (Kylin, myself, Gerik recently and I'm sure there's more.) Ul'dah would be the easiest place to RP it, but I still think it's very possible to do it in other countries. With Gridania, perhaps your family owns some land and hires people to grow and distribute things for example, or perhaps in Limsa you came from a family of sailors that were previously pirates and hit the jackpot somehow.Â
As long as there's a reason, I'm sure it'd work anywhere. Good luck to you <3
RE: Nobles? - Spiritual Machine - 07-02-2013
(07-02-2013, 08:29 PM)Seohyun Wrote: I know a few players actually roleplay being nobles. (Kylin, myself, Gerik recently and I'm sure there's more.) Ul'dah would be the easiest place to RP it, but I still think it's very possible to do it in other countries. With Gridania, perhaps your family owns some land and hires people to grow and distribute things for example, or perhaps in Limsa you came from a family of sailors that were previously pirates and hit the jackpot somehow.ÂSince you're playing a noble, can I ask you why you call it a "noble"? What you're describing is just a person who becomes rich and successful.
As long as there's a reason, I'm sure it'd work anywhere. Good luck to you <3
Like I said in my previous post, simply being rich and successful would make you upper class to some degree. "Being a noble" is different in the lore. It's something that is exclusive to Ishgard, that we know of. Being a noble makes you a part of Ishgard's aristocracy, according to these links:
http://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Allagan_Runestone
http://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/wiki/index.php?title=Valentione's_Day
Since Ishgard has a Countess, and noble Houses, they have a nobility. If you call every member of the upper class in Eorzea "noble", that's kinda confusing.
Nobles have power due to their titles and heritage, as well as their wealth and connection to the aristocracy.
The upper class of Ul'dah (and anywhere else for that matter) only have power because of their money, business connections and a network of friends and allies, like the Syndicate. I'm not sure a concept like a "noble house" has any meaning to citizens of Ul'dah.
RE: Nobles? - Myal - 07-02-2013
(07-02-2013, 09:09 PM)Spiritual Machine Wrote: The upper class of Ul'dah (and anywhere else for that matter) only have power because of their money, business connections and a network of friends and allies, like the Syndicate. I'm not sure a concept like a "noble house" has any meaning to citizens of Ul'dah.
But isn't Ul'dah a sultanate? There should be a concept of nobility there, even if only for show and title. Though I do consider royalty "nobles".
RE: Nobles? - LandStander - 07-02-2013
(07-02-2013, 09:09 PM)Spiritual Machine Wrote:(07-02-2013, 08:29 PM)Seohyun Wrote: I know a few players actually roleplay being nobles. (Kylin, myself, Gerik recently and I'm sure there's more.) Ul'dah would be the easiest place to RP it, but I still think it's very possible to do it in other countries. With Gridania, perhaps your family owns some land and hires people to grow and distribute things for example, or perhaps in Limsa you came from a family of sailors that were previously pirates and hit the jackpot somehow.ÂSince you're playing a noble, can I ask you why you call it a "noble"? What you're describing is just a person who becomes rich and successful.
As long as there's a reason, I'm sure it'd work anywhere. Good luck to you <3
Like I said in my previous post, simply being rich and successful would make you upper class to some degree. "Being a noble" is different in the lore.Â
Noble -Â Belonging to a hereditary class with high social or political status; aristocratic
Just have to be in a rich family. The richer you are, generally the higher your social status. The rich Lallafell who has owned a collection of mines for generations would probably be considered a noble. The character themselves do not have to be the ones to amass the wealth as their parents or grandparents could have been the one to do so. If your parents become rich its not like they wouldn't continue to share that wealth with you in an effort to keep the entire family line rich and..well..noble.Â
RE: Nobles? - Seohyun - 07-02-2013
I think there's rich and successful and there's also having a lineage of riches and an organized house that can expand. But there's -so- many ways people can work into nobility.
Including in Ul'dah where the entire society is so gil-focused! Haha. But as far as Gridania and Limsa goes, I still think there's many ways you can work yourself into nobility Ul'dahn or not. Looking forward to seeing what you come up with though!
RE: Nobles? - Myal - 07-02-2013
(07-02-2013, 09:43 PM)LandStander Wrote: Just have to be in a rich family. The richer you are, generally the higher your social status. The rich Lallafell who has owned a collection of mines for generations would probably be considered a noble. The character themselves do not have to be the ones to amass the wealth as their parents or grandparents could have been the one to do so. If your parents become rich its not like they wouldn't continue to share that wealth with you in an effort to keep the entire family line rich and..well..noble.Â
Aaa, but if a rich man goes bankrupt he ceases to be rich. When a count goes poor, he's still a count.
RE: Nobles? - LandStander - 07-02-2013
(07-02-2013, 09:47 PM)Myal Wrote:(07-02-2013, 09:43 PM)LandStander Wrote: Just have to be in a rich family. The richer you are, generally the higher your social status. The rich Lallafell who has owned a collection of mines for generations would probably be considered a noble. The character themselves do not have to be the ones to amass the wealth as their parents or grandparents could have been the one to do so. If your parents become rich its not like they wouldn't continue to share that wealth with you in an effort to keep the entire family line rich and..well..noble.Â
Aaa, but if a rich man goes bankrupt he ceases to be rich. When a count goes poor, he's still a count.
Ho ho ho. Good point.
Edit: But wouldn't he still lose his title because it requires money to hold a position such as that? I could be wrong as I admit I am not an expert on all this hooty tooty rich people stuff
RE: Nobles? - Spiritual Machine - 07-02-2013
(07-02-2013, 09:34 PM)Myal Wrote:Oh, I would have considered royalty separate from nobility. Particularly because the lore does, referring to nobles and aristocrats when talking about Ishgard but calling Ul'dah a Sultanate.(07-02-2013, 09:09 PM)Spiritual Machine Wrote: The upper class of Ul'dah (and anywhere else for that matter) only have power because of their money, business connections and a network of friends and allies, like the Syndicate. I'm not sure a concept like a "noble house" has any meaning to citizens of Ul'dah.
But isn't Ul'dah a sultanate? There should be a concept of nobility there, even if only for show and title. Though I do consider royalty "nobles".
I guess for real-world equivalents, compare these entries.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobility
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sultanate
Noble houses have nothing directly to do with members of royal families. Except in Game of Thrones, I guess.
Like I said, I wouldn't equate nobility with simply having a family line that has a lot of money. That's not how it works in the real world. I'd mentioned the famous Rockefeller family as an example before, but there's also the fact that it'd sorta be like Donald Trump calling his family "House Trump."Â
But rather than compare the real world to this game, all I'm saying is that the Ul'dah upper class don't call themselves nobles, but the Ishgard aristocracy do (I linked examples above), probably because they have something resembling a feudal system there. But who knows?
I'm not condemning this kind of roleplay at all though, and it's entirely possible to be wealthy or have wealthy parents in any city-state! I just thought it might confuse people to call yourself a "noble," because of what it means in FFXIV's lore.
RE: Nobles? - Seohyun - 07-02-2013
Haha, not at all. Debate is healthy. (Also welcome!)
I agree with some parts, but there's kind of a few examples of some nontraditional nobles in game. There's Raubahn Aldynn who's one of the most looked up to people in all of Ul'dah. He started with nothing once his home was destroyed, came to Ul'dah, became a gladiator champion, used the money to buy the arena, and this gave him a place in the Syndicate. Giving him a huge political and powerful standing in Ul'dah. In Ul'dah, gil is everything and because of that some man from no where managed to become one of the most noble figures in that city-state. He's just one example. There's also supposedly several rich people. and then the tradtional nobles you speak of in the Syndicate.Â
From what I've read on the forums, I think the more traditional nobles would probably reside in Ishgard since from what I read they have banner men, and four big noble houses.Â
RE: Nobles? - Aldeus - 07-02-2013
So here's a thought a little outside of the box, what about a Garlean noble? Their culture seems based on a Roman hierarchy, and the romans had nobility.  There are already several instances of Garlean defections. Perhaps your character was kicked out of the family? Just a thought.
RE: Nobles? - Spiritual Machine - 07-02-2013
(07-02-2013, 10:21 PM)Seohyun Wrote: Haha, not at all. Debate is healthy. (Also welcome!)Oh, no. I think you misunderstand. I think it makes sense no matter how you get your money and power. You can be like Raubahn who started with nothing and gained power and prestige in the city, and you have folks like in the Syndicate who are more like tycoons of big business. It doesn't matter who their families are, because their power is in the companies they control, like the East Aldenard Trading Company, or Amajina & Sons Mineral Concern.
I agree with some parts, but there's kind of a few examples of some nontraditional nobles in game. There's Raubahn Aldynn who's one of the most looked up to people in all of Ul'dah. He started with nothing once his home was destroyed, came to Ul'dah, became a gladiator champion, used the money to buy the arena, and this gave him a place in the Syndicate. Giving him a huge political and powerful standing in Ul'dah. In Ul'dah, gil is everything and because of that some man from no where managed to become one of the most noble figures in that city-state. He's just one example. There's also supposedly several rich people. and then the tradtional nobles you speak of in the Syndicate.Â
From what I've read on the forums, I think the more traditional nobles would probably reside in Ishgard since from what I read they have banner men, and four big noble houses.Â
Flame General Raubahn Aldynn is indeed a "noble figure," though, in that he is an exceptional individual. If that's all you guys mean when you say "noble" then I guess I misunderstood.
I wasn't pointing out anything but the use of the words "noble" and "house", really, which are words unique to Ishgard in the game. I think the only "traditional nobles" are the ones in Ishgard.
That said, anyone's character can get rich and powerful to some degree in various fashions. We definitely agree on that.
RE: Nobles? - Black - 07-03-2013
(07-02-2013, 09:51 PM)LandStander Wrote:(07-02-2013, 09:47 PM)Myal Wrote:(07-02-2013, 09:43 PM)LandStander Wrote: Just have to be in a rich family. The richer you are, generally the higher your social status. The rich Lallafell who has owned a collection of mines for generations would probably be considered a noble. The character themselves do not have to be the ones to amass the wealth as their parents or grandparents could have been the one to do so. If your parents become rich its not like they wouldn't continue to share that wealth with you in an effort to keep the entire family line rich and..well..noble.Â
Aaa, but if a rich man goes bankrupt he ceases to be rich. When a count goes poor, he's still a count.
Ho ho ho. Good point.
Edit: But wouldn't he still lose his title  because it requires money to hold a position such as that? I could be wrong as I admit I am not an expert on all this hooty tooty rich people stuff
Nope, they still keep their title. They can voluntarily relinquish their title/status, but even then, you still keep your friends and former connections and those folks still afford you a bit of dignity. There are other considerations, too, especially dealing with marriage.
Don't forget, there are many actresses and actors that get Knighted because of accomplishments, not money. That title can, of course, be used to gain contacts and generate wealth of a sort, but that's a side-benefit and not reliant on the title. There are many examples for other titles, too. Dame/Dukes have been Middle-class or lower and have jobs, but they have privilege of royalty and the right to attend the queen, irrespective of financial status.
But it can get pretty complicated; some are "honorable titles" and given as a courtesy, but you are still granted some privilege/status, even if you are poor, just because of your current/former associations.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Courtesy_titles_in_the_United_Kingdomhttp://
RE: Nobles? - Kylin - 07-03-2013
Just to add to the whole "house" and "noble" terminology debate, I figured I'd drop this here.
There was a quest in Ul'dah that indicated the use of the the term "house" in regards to a past wealthy family called House Skryvner. The term "lord" has also been used to describe many of the wealthy house leaders (like Lord Lolorito, Lord Skryvner, etc). You can view the full transcripts of the quest regarding House Skryvner here:
http://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Dressed_to_Be_Killed/Plot_Details
Some of the Ul'dahn Syndicate members have also been referred to as "nobles," such as in this FATE (that's right...Eolande from 1.0 is apparently dead ; ; ): http://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/A_Few_Arrows_Short_of_a_Quiver
Additionally, there's also a hint of the term "house" being used in Gridania, though this is a bit more open to interpretation. There's a drop in a Gridanian dungeon that makes mention of House d'Arlendre: http://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Heart_of_House_d%27Arlendre
[[Knows entirely way too much about the upper class of Eorzea >.>]]
RE: Nobles? - Eva - 07-03-2013
Just wanted to add a little tidbit here since Ishgardian nobility was briefly touched upon earlier and has some bearing in Eva's own backstory. Â From this gamerescape page:
"Among the noble houses of Ishgard's class structure, four are known as "high houses" that have considerably more power than the rest; among them are House Durendaire, House Fortemps, and House Dzemael, the latter of which holding the most influence."
RE: Nobles? - Spiritual Machine - 07-03-2013
(07-03-2013, 11:53 AM)Kylin Wrote: Just to add to the whole "house" and "noble" terminology debate, I figured I'd drop this here.Oh my goodness. That's really interesting!
There was a quest in Ul'dah that indicated the use of the the term "house" in regards to a past wealthy family called House Skryvner. The term "lord" has also been used to describe many of the wealthy house leaders (like Lord Lolorito, Lord Skryvner, etc). You can view the full transcripts of the quest regarding House Skryvner here:
http://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Dressed_to_Be_Killed/Plot_Details
Some of the Ul'dahn Syndicate members have also been referred to as "nobles," such as in this FATE (that's right...Eolande from 1.0 is apparently dead ; ; ): http://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/A_Few_Arrows_Short_of_a_Quiver
Additionally, there's also a hint of the term "house" being used in Gridania, though this is a bit more open to interpretation. There's a drop in a Gridanian dungeon that makes mention of House d'Arlendre: http://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Heart_of_House_d%27Arlendre
[[Knows entirely way too much about the upper class of Eorzea >.>]]
You know, I came in here with an observation (an incorrect one, it seems--I didn't get to play 1.0 and could only go by what lore I could find on the internet) that was contrary to what others were saying.
And we just, like, had a calm and rational discussion about it with lore justifications and everything.
I'm seeing that all over this site, actually. You guys are really mild and laid-back about stuff, but you know your lore. That's, like, really refreshing to see in a roleplay community that's been around for as long as this one has. I like it.
So based on this information, there are some impressively wealthy and powerful Hyur individuals in and around Ul'dah who are referred to as nobles and who have family Houses, like the ill-fated Prokop of House Skryvner.
Noble families can have heirs and personal homes and estates outside of Ul'dah, likely in the lands governed by the city-state, such as the summer home of former Syndicate member Eolande Quiveron.
Their money is likely worth something in the other city-states, but their investments and family connections are probably all in and around Ul'dah, as there is no evidence (that I know of) that the convention has spread to the aesthetic and peaceful Gridania, or to the naval and pirate-run Limsa Lominsa.
As for the "House d'Arlendre" of Gridania, that looks to be an Elezen name (it has French naming conventions). According to Elezen Naming Conventions, Elezens are a proud people with such respect for their surnames that they don't share them between their two tribes. I don't know much about Elezen families, but their "houses" probably don't resemble Hyur noble houses, if only because they don't seem to live very lavish lifestyles in the Twelveswood.