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+--- Thread: Miqo’te Mating Strategies Explored: a biologist’s point of view (/showthread.php?tid=2961)
RE: Miqo’te Mating Strategies Explored: a biologist’s point of view - Vinter - 09-01-2013
(09-01-2013, 06:05 PM)Bea Wrote:(09-01-2013, 05:59 PM)Vinter Wrote: So why should anyone care what you think? What makes your prescence in this thread desirable, if all you're going to do is antagonize people and act like a dick?
How is disagreeing with a topic antagonizing people and acting like a dick?
Now you're just getting straight up rude. I'm going to say this again, because apparently ya'll just come in on every other post. People are allowed to disagree. People allowed to agree. This isn't the "eveyone who agrees with me gets to post" club. Everyone has a right to post here, and don't you say otherwise. Back the fuck up.
Holy hell, get back to the discussion. If you're going to just outright flaming people, take it to PMs.
Edit: And before you whine about how I'm coming to the defense of a friend, no. It just happens to be something I see going on right now. If I seen people acting this way towards anyone else for no particular reasons because disagreeing IS MEAN, then you'd get the same damn response.
Because you're not adding anything to the discussion, you're fucking derailing it!
This is a discussion about the mating strategies of the miqo'te and their implications on miqo'te society, not a discussion about the validity of a discussion about the mating strategies of the miqo'te.
If you, however, feel that such a discussion would be a productive use of your time, you're perfectly free to start a new thread titled "Is there any point in discussing miqo'te mating strategies?" but that's not what this thread is about.
(09-01-2013, 06:06 PM)Shuck Wrote: This was the wrong decision for you.
I'm shaking in my boots already.
(09-01-2013, 06:06 PM)Shuck Wrote: Fact remains that it's an undesirable trait that we can't quite breed out of them. We would if we could! Because that would mean less issues in taking care of the damned thing, and a longer-standing trophy.
But we can't, because the code's too junked.
We could, but we don't want to. There's a difference.
There are german shepherds with straight backs who are just fine. And there are types of bulldogs that are just fine as well. We specifically breed for these flaws because we find them attractive.
(09-01-2013, 06:06 PM)Shuck Wrote: Nice. Anyway, that's not an opinion, the total number of reputation points that someone gets from a post don't matter. Does my 17 reputation prove I'm super cool? No. It doesn't. In fact, I wish you motherfuckers would stop giving me reputation points. I liked it at zero.
Anyway, fact, not opinion: They don't matter.
No, fuck that. Uther +1'ed Velkyron's post stating that the thread is pointless. Myxie chimed in saying that some people do think there's a point to it, and backed it up with ratings and PMs. You then start arguing that the opinions of those people are irrelevant, again, implying that there's no point to this discussion. But apparently it has value to the people who rated it up. So the only pointless thing here is your argument.
(09-01-2013, 06:06 PM)Shuck Wrote: Kangaroos aren't hominids. I specified hominids. You ignored that, for some reason. So, no. No, I'm not, and that's not the argument being presented, and this was a bad attempt at standing up to a "meanie".
So, you're the one who defines what a homonid-style is? It has two legs, two arms, two ears, a nose, a mouth, two eyes, plantigrade feet.
A homonid is member of the great ape family. Last I checked, SE had not mentioned Miqo'te being great apes. So a kangaroo is as much a homonid as a Miqo'te.
RE: Miqo’te Mating Strategies Explored: a biologist’s point of view - Cato - 09-01-2013
The discussion has evolved naturally to be about more than just the core point of the thread itself. This is normal and expected of pretty much any debate that has gone on for quite a while - especially if people begin exploring alternative theories and viewpoints.
...and it seems rather odd to call people out on 'derailing' a thread after deliberately aggravating them by tossing accusations their way. Either way, this thread seems to quite rapidly be going down the 'he said, she said' route which isn't going to work out well for anyone involved I'd wager.
RE: Miqo’te Mating Strategies Explored: a biologist’s point of view - Vinter - 09-01-2013
It didn't evolve. People were still discussing the original topic, and shuck was just chiming in condescendingly shitting all over people's posts in passing.
RE: Miqo’te Mating Strategies Explored: a biologist’s point of view - Velkyron - 09-01-2013
(09-01-2013, 06:43 PM)Vinter Wrote: No, fuck that. Uther +1'ed Velkyron's post stating that the thread is pointless. Myxie chimed in saying that some people do think there's a point to it, and backed it up with ratings and PMs. You then start arguing that the opinions of those people are irrelevant, again, implying that there's no point to this discussion. But apparently it has value to the people who rated it up. So the only pointless thing here is your argument.
No. Â I did not say it was pointless. Â That's an outright fabrication. Â Here is what I said:
(09-01-2013, 01:18 PM)Velkyron Wrote: ...no disrespect to anyone in this thread, but...what is the point of this? Â In a game where there is a pretty clear secular outlook on things (with a few notable exceptions, such as the Ishgardians), why does something that only have relevance to a rather personal part of Mi'quote life have such a rather lengthy and thorough thread on the subject which basically revolves around sex?
While I can gather that a good foundation of their culture is partially based on this, I don't quite understand much point of it at all. Â I see this thread for no other race in this forum: only the Mi'quote. Â Why? Â Are us Roegadyn players not good enough? Â Would Lallafel be considered too weird? Â Hyur too mundane and elezen be having too much of the pointy ears?
While some of the conjecture is interesting, I really don't see the point of it.
I said that I could not see the point, not that it did not exist. Â And from that I got opposite spectrums of responses: one which was incredibly insightful and helped me to see the point of the thread and the other chastising me for supposedly making a mandate that suggests everyone believes as such.
I was, in fact, speaking for myself.
I wasn't going to post in this thread after thanking Siobhain for some very interesting and insightful perspective, but when I'm called out like this, that is unacceptable. Â I've only JUST started participating in this community. Â I did not realize such hostility was par for the course.
RE: Miqo’te Mating Strategies Explored: a biologist’s point of view - Lost River - 09-01-2013
This is sadly the murky waters we tread with such a discussion, especially when it calls for sciences that are speculative at best due to no hard evidence to follow with the scientific process; even in a hypothetical approach to it, we're not given enough information prior by the developer of said race for the game; so a fill in the blank and speculation is what is called for.
I find it an interesting take on something, not accurate and not inaccurate, it's a speculative take on the process in a fun way to show it as if a biologist would approach when going for a more laymen's terminology as to 'why'.
No right or wrong answers in this, just theories and speculation in itself... which apparently has spurned a debate (which is good) that has evolved into "I'm right, you're wrong." bit (which is bad).
In short, we don't have enough data provided to follow up fully with the scientific theory.
I believe this article should be locked as it's slowly being derailed into the abyss.
RE: Miqo’te Mating Strategies Explored: a biologist’s point of view - Orlog - 09-01-2013
(09-01-2013, 06:43 PM)Vinter Wrote: Because you're not adding anything to the discussion, you're fucking derailing it!
This is a discussion about the mating strategies of the miqo'te and their implications on miqo'te society, not a discussion about the validity of a discussion about the mating strategies of the miqo'te.
If you, however, feel that such a discussion would be a productive use of your time, you're perfectly free to start a new thread titled "Is there any point in discussing miqo'te mating strategies?" but that's not what this thread is about.
Have you actually been reading this thread through, or did you just come in when people were saying their uncertainty of the purpose of this thread? 'Cause the thread went off into a different topic way before we got here, then were was the uncertainty, and then people went back to explaining why they disagreed with the theory that was posted. That's... all within the topic of the thread, so I'm not really sure where you're pulling this from.
But, no, this topic is fine to continue this discussion, seeing that it pertains to the topic at hand. No one is talking about whether or not this thread should exist anymore. No one. There's some people disagreeing with the theory, and then people getting really upset about people disagreeing with it, and then some pointing fingers. So, if anything. YOU'RE derailing the thread more than anything else.
![[Image: OWNQCXy.gif]](http://i.imgur.com/OWNQCXy.gif)
Debates continue!
RE: Miqo’te Mating Strategies Explored: a biologist’s point of view - Shuck - 09-01-2013
(09-01-2013, 06:43 PM)Vinter Wrote: Because you're not adding anything to the discussion, you're fucking derailing it!
This is a discussion about the mating strategies of the miqo'te and their implications on miqo'te society, not a discussion about the validity of a discussion about the mating strategies of the miqo'te.
If you, however, feel that such a discussion would be a productive use of your time, you're perfectly free to start a new thread titled "Is there any point in discussing miqo'te mating strategies?" but that's not what this thread is about.
Actually, at this point, you're de-railing it. By insisting it was de-railed when it has not, in fact, been de-railed.
(09-01-2013, 06:43 PM)Vinter Wrote: I'm shaking in my boots already.
Nobody asked you to be. This was a statement of fact. This is the wrong choice for you.
(09-01-2013, 06:43 PM)Vinter Wrote: We could, but we don't want to. There's a difference.
There are german shepherds with straight backs who are just fine. And there are types of bulldogs that are just fine as well. We specifically breed for these flaws because we find them attractive.
No, dude. We can't. There's no breeder willing to sell his product that would not want his product to be more desirable. Extra health care expenses are not a desirable trait in a product, and leads to a higher turnover in trophy-dogs.
If at all possible, these breeders would have, for pure market interest alone, removed these undesirable traits from their breeds in order to make them more marketable to a broader base of people, so that they could make more money through higher volume of sales.
The dogs that are "just fine" are outbred every now and again to ensure that there's significant genetic drift within the family line. They may not use other breeds of dogs, but they limit inbreeding as much as possible.
Nobody finds respiratory issues "attractive". Nobody finds leaky, diseased anal glands "attractive". You're off base.
(09-01-2013, 06:43 PM)Vinter Wrote: No, fuck that. Uther +1'ed Velkyron's post stating that the thread is pointless. Myxie chimed in saying that some people do think there's a point to it, and backed it up with ratings and PMs. You then start arguing that the opinions of those people are irrelevant, again, implying that there's no point to this discussion. But apparently it has value to the people who rated it up. So the only pointless thing here is your argument.
I'm arguing that the counter of reputation is irrelevant. You've yet to address that. It's still irrelevant. It bears no meaning on the actual merit of anything being discussed. I can give everyone a +1 on everything. Freely. It amounts to nothing.
(09-01-2013, 06:43 PM)Vinter Wrote: So, you're the one who defines what a homonid-style is? It has two legs, two arms, two ears, a nose, a mouth, two eyes, plantigrade feet.
A homonid is member of the great ape family. Last I checked, SE had not mentioned Miqo'te being great apes. So a kangaroo is as much a homonid as a Miqo'te.
No, that's science. Science determines what is, and isn't a hominid, or like a hominid.
On this kangaroo thing, which you seem weirdly hooked on, they're still not even close to being like hominids. What with them being marsupials. They use their long, heavy tails for balance (something that hominids don't have)and as a brace to stand upright, hop for locomotion (which hominids aren't likely to do), develop their young in a pouch, have elongated jaws with relatively small craniums... I mean, I can't believe you're even trying to argue this, but ok. You're wrong in every way possible.
I mean, they're part of the Macropodidae family of Marsupials, which is preeeettty physically divorced from hominids, or anything resembling them, so it's like...what the fuck are you even on about?
Anyway, Miqo'te have a lot more in common with modern hominids than anything else. We've already established that their method of locomotion is the same as any other upright biped. Their tails aren't large or heavy enough to account for any balance, and are basically vestigial.
They can even have babies with humans and shit. Like for real. I'm not joking. There ain't no kangaroo-man babies out there. Because they're not similar in the least.
Really, that last bit shoots your argument entirely to shit by itself, but I'm gonna go ahead and leave you this right here so you can chart for yourself exactly how many degrees by which you're wrong.
On a more personal note, this is still a terrible attempt. It really, really is. You can't argue that discussions don't get to evolve (or ignore the part where I showed up well after the direction of the discussion had changed) simply because you don't like me. I don't need you to like me. Nobody needs you to like me. Nobody cares that you don't.
On top of that, you can't throw out something like "KANGAROOS AIN'T A MAN SO HOW A MIQO'TE A MAN!?!?" and expect that to fly when they're genetically similar enough to have offspring. It's also weird that you're apparently upset about being told you're wrong on this outrageous attempt at a strawman fallacy in claiming that I have, singlehandedly, argued that this is not worth discussing (you've erected an argument that wasn't presented, and then went ahead and attacked it. I'm just clarifying, because apparently you think "hominid" is a fluid term, not a specific one, so who knows what else is unclear for you.) Also, then there's this kangaroos being like miqo'te, even though they're obviously not even kind of, and...your whole point is just a mess.
It's a huge mess. A huge wrong mess.
So yeah. Miqo'te: Pretty much just people with cat ears and a goofy tail. As such, not terribly "mysterious" or "special". This isn't a bad thing, it's just a thing that is.
RE: Miqo’te Mating Strategies Explored: a biologist’s point of view - Nnejo - 09-01-2013
I believe, and correct me if I am wrong, but the reason this discussion seems so race based is because of what has been presented to us. The lore states that the Miqo'te maintain an insular group mentality.Â
With that in mind it seems a large number of players wish to discuss the cultural aspect of Miqo'te society. What with them being a tribal people in origin and all I think this thread is just a discussion. (As it is located in that section of the forums after all
 )I am still currently reading through the myriad of pages here (currently on page 5). Guess I will drop in my two gil once I'm all caught up. Seeing as my linkshell and roleplay will be exploring the non-tribal side of things with my Miqo fem. Heh page 5 is entertaining though. Will be back with something that contributes to the discussion, promise!
RE: Miqo’te Mating Strategies Explored: a biologist’s point of view - Ellie - 09-01-2013
As fascinating as the possible biological evolution of Miqo'te, and the fact that they're genetically similar enough to mate and produce healthy offspring with the other five races with little complication is, I'm afraid this discussion has gone off the rails and delved into some pretty unsavory territory.
The rules require us to be respectful to one another, whether you started it or responded in kind. Please get back to the respectful discussion of Miqo'te sexy time, or else the thread will be locked and sexy time will be over. Thank you.
RE: Miqo’te Mating Strategies Explored: a biologist’s point of view - Shuck - 09-01-2013
(09-01-2013, 08:50 PM)Ellie Wrote: As fascinating as the possible biological evolution of Miqo'te, and the fact that they're genetically similar enough to mate and produce healthy offspring with the other five races with little complication is, I'm afraid this discussion has gone off the rails and delved into some pretty unsavory territory.
The rules require us to be respectful to one another, whether you started it or responded in kind. Please get back to the respectful discussion of Miqo'te sexy time, or else the thread will be locked and sexy time will be over. Thank you.
Wait, am I to understand that biology is not related to sexy time?
RE: Miqo’te Mating Strategies Explored: a biologist’s point of view - Velkyron - 09-01-2013
(09-01-2013, 08:50 PM)Ellie Wrote: As fascinating as the possible biological evolution of Miqo'te, and the fact that they're genetically similar enough to mate and produce healthy offspring with the other five races with little complication is, I'm afraid this discussion has gone off the rails and delved into some pretty unsavory territory.
The rules require us to be respectful to one another, whether you started it or responded in kind. Please get back to the respectful discussion of Miqo'te sexy time, or else the thread will be locked and sexy time will be over. Thank you.
Uh...them cat womens are hot?
RE: Miqo’te Mating Strategies Explored: a biologist’s point of view - Lost River - 09-01-2013
Time to start me a catperson harem. Males and Females. But not for usual intended purposes of sexy time. Just dress them in butler and maid uniforms. Give them each a special weapon type and set forth the adventures of Lost River and her cat-people servant mercenaries corp.Â
On topic, quite interesting. I am wondering what the other species (aka, non-kitties) are. Hyur is typical, Elezen and Roegadyn perhaps easily, but the Lalafell. That's interesting territories!
RE: Miqo’te Mating Strategies Explored: a biologist’s point of view - Ellie - 09-01-2013
(09-01-2013, 08:53 PM)Shuck Wrote: Wait, am I to understand that biology is not related to sexy time?
Yes, but then again everything is related to everything, it's just a matter of distance, and the matter of evolutionary biology in this instance is so distant from the subject of sexy time that it's distracting.
RE: Miqo’te Mating Strategies Explored: a biologist’s point of view - Jules - 09-01-2013
(09-01-2013, 09:26 PM)Ellie Wrote:(09-01-2013, 08:53 PM)Shuck Wrote: Wait, am I to understand that biology is not related to sexy time?
Yes, but then again everything is related to everything, it's just a matter of distance, and the matter of evolutionary biology in this instance is so distant from the subject of sexy time that it's distracting.
But it was a thread on the biology of their sexytimes.
RE: Miqo’te Mating Strategies Explored: a biologist’s point of view - Sigyn Shieldbreaker - 09-01-2013
I'm sorry I missed it. Do we have a section about half-breed characters?
Also, are Seeker harems or Keeper matriarchal groups actually being considered by anyone who might be following the original train of thought? Because I'm interested in hearing more details regarding how those groups might be handled, and again, there just ain't much in the realm of Roe culture to look at unless someone's uncovered something I haven't.