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+--- Thread: Miqo’te Mating Strategies Explored: a biologist’s point of view (/showthread.php?tid=2961)
RE: Miqo’te Mating Strategies Explored: a biologist’s point of view - Celesse - 09-01-2013
Personally, I find all that miqu'ote tribal culture (in Eorzea's setting) and particularly the mating part offsetting. For starters, I've yet to see Tia's or Nuhn's amongst NPCs.Â
And for the aforementioned points, I feel like much of the established miqu'ote lore doesn't make much sense to me.
And so, if there indeed was tribal miqu'otes roaming eorzea, and the mating rituals tied to that, they'd be pretty much living in a very closed society, like the amish. However, that's not concordant at all with what I've personally witnessed in game.
RE: Miqo’te Mating Strategies Explored: a biologist’s point of view - Kouen Elfrit - 09-01-2013
Man, There is alot of information to go over than I am actually willing to spend time to read. Though it is really enjoyable to read, I offer nothing to the discussion (because I'm not a scientist like some of you, shoot I'm barely half an electrician) except to say that I loved reading the mating strategies from a biologists point of view, keep up the good work!
RE: Miqo’te Mating Strategies Explored: a biologist’s point of view - Sigyn Shieldbreaker - 09-01-2013
(09-01-2013, 09:59 PM)Celesse Wrote: Personally, I find all that miqu'ote tribal culture (in Eorzea's setting) and particularly the mating part offsetting. For starters, I've yet to see Tia's or Nuhn's amongst NPCs.Â
And for the aforementioned points, I feel like much of the established miqu'ote lore doesn't make much sense to me.
And so, if there indeed was tribal miqu'otes roaming eorzea, and the mating rituals tied to that, they'd be pretty much living in a very closed society, like the amish. However, that's not concordant at all with what I've personally witnessed in game.
 Realistically, I think that these were just two explanations for why they didn't 'exist' before, in a sense. Being rare and thus being put into certain socially necessary places based on their male gender might explain why they (SE) bothered mentioning those sorts of 'rituals' in the first place. Matriarchal societies denote that women are the ones that go out as warriors and whatnot and men are generally the equivalent of 'housekeepers'-- not always literally, but they might be protected and gently (or harshly) persuaded not to go out and risk their lives and subsequently the lives of their entire species if they keep throwing themselves out on dangerous adventures.
Likewise, males who have 'harems' might not actually be ruling harems like tiny sultans but might, in fact, be more similar to situations such as in India and China where one wife is shared amongst several husbands due to not only a shortage of women but a lack of fraternal income. (i.e. sometimes they can really only afford one wife between two or more husbands). Male Miqo'tes might have no real power in those harems and are, instead, put in a sort of pseudo-role of prestige where they're treated well but don't get to pick and choose their female mates so much as their existing mates choose. Instead they'd get to decide whether a 'lesser' male was able to stay with the group instead of being sent away to be taken in by another group of women or left to wander because he wasn't deemed suitable for breeding.
Male Keepers might be more inclined to listen to the direction of women, especially women who are nearly twice their size (like a Roegadyn /koff) because they've been raised to respect women as leaders. Likewise, maybe a male Keeper would be -less- inclined to listen to women outside or inside his own race because he's tired of hearing it and that's why he left home in the first place. Reflective personalities might crop up more in female Keepers, women who are used to talking down to men regardless of their size and women who are more hesitant to do it because they never agreed with such a cultural hierarchy based on gender.
Similarly, male Seekers might be more open and frivolous with their flirtations, because perhaps they're used to being surrounded by women who want their attention or seeing other, older males able to do so. They might be less inclined to have a serious relationship with anyone, much less anyone outside their race if they chose not to become a Nuhn when given the chance, not wanting any part of such a large responsibility. Adversely, Tias might be more or less inclined based on those similar views, not to mention how a young female Miqo'te might consider her place in the big gender positions of the world.
There are really plenty of things that this could potentially flesh out in the start of a character's personality and it could lead to a healthy bit of character development as a new, slightly less worldly Miqo'te was exposed to the cultures of others and changed their opinion over time. Not all of them are romantic. These very things may also dictate friendships, rivalries, or the choice of who becomes one's enemy.
I agree that what you might see in game might not line up entirely with what's going on, but then, if SE felt so inclined they could give -more- excuses about it. Basing everything we know off a race exclusively by what we see in game isn't entirely commonplace because in many other games there are books and side-games and expansive profiles and such that delve deeper into all that which might not be covered. It could be as simple as SE not having thought of those things right away or not seeing it as important enough to put in game.
Warcraft seems to pretend to take its lore pretty seriously and so does its players, but that doesn't stop things like the Tauren Chieftains or all of the easter egg NPCs from existing in the game and not necessarily in books or the like and things like differing eye-glows and playable Quel'dorei or neutral factions from -not- appearing in the game.
RE: Miqo’te Mating Strategies Explored: a biologist’s point of view - Dehqon - 09-01-2013
I agree, the lore thus far seems a bit on the disjointed side as if a couple of people were asked to come up with superficial ideas for background fluff, then those were all mashed together to form what we have now. With cat girls being how they are in anime/manga, it stands to reason that there would be even less direct insight on their culture when "sexy kitty" springs to mind the quickest.
What has been made official besides generic relationship habits? They migrated here in the past when the seas froze, but why? Were they overpopulated in the homeland? Was this group unhappy with how things were? Were they just bored and curious?
How about typical diets besides the fish and milk cliche? Are they still nomadic? If so, how much territory could they cover and how far will they go to defend themselves from meddling outsiders? These things can be more vital to a culture than relationships because women who are too tired or nervous may not want sex with anybody no matter how desirable he is, assuming they have any choice in the matter. It can be left in the hands of roleplayers, but then you'll have different stories from each person which makes for a confusing scene for those who aren't as familiar as the "experts" they see.
RE: Miqo’te Mating Strategies Explored: a biologist’s point of view - Sigyn Shieldbreaker - 09-01-2013
(09-01-2013, 11:01 PM)Dehqon Wrote: What has been made official besides generic relationship habits? They migrated here in the past when the seas froze, but why? Were they overpopulated in the homeland? Was this group unhappy with how things were? Were they just bored and curious?
How about typical diets besides the fish and milk cliche? Are they still nomadic? If so, how much territory could they cover and how far will they go to defend themselves from meddling outsiders? These things can be more vital to a culture than relationships because women who are too tired or nervous may not want sex with anybody no matter how desirable he is, assuming they have any choice in the matter.Â
I'd like to know all this, too, I'm a sucker for any and all details I can glean. They would be very interesting and potential to note-- but this thread is about the one thing there is some actual information about, right? I hadn't even known any tiny excuse as to what them male Miqo's have been doing existed until I read this thread so that, in itself, was enlightening.Â
I agree they -can- be more vital in their entirety, but relationship dynamics play a large role in understanding societies.Â
Leaving things for RPers to decide themselves is nice on one hand, but it really can't be helped regardless-- it's just how it is when all of the info isn't on the table. Or even very much of the info. I wish in some tiny, naive portion of my soul that there -were- things that involved incomplete lore that were generally accepted as a rule by a community but there are always the people who think such things can infringe on their creative rights and, thus, do everything to discredit it. Sometimes they're right but I don't see it as being too different from subjects that result in a virtually unanimous agreement in the community.
RE: Miqo’te Mating Strategies Explored: a biologist’s point of view - Nnejo - 09-01-2013
(09-01-2013, 09:49 PM)Siobhain Wrote: I'm sorry I missed it. Do we have a section about half-breed characters?
Also, are Seeker harems or Keeper matriarchal groups actually being considered by anyone who might be following the original train of thought? Because I'm interested in hearing more details regarding how those groups might be handled, and again, there just ain't much in the realm of Roe culture to look at unless someone's uncovered something I haven't.
Hm. While my LS isn't specifically one or the other I would interested to see if anyone actually has started an all Seeker or Keeper bordello/harem/brothel. Whatever the kids are calling it these days. ( I welcome all races in Ambrosia!)
RE: Miqo’te Mating Strategies Explored: a biologist’s point of view - Celesse - 09-01-2013
(09-01-2013, 11:10 PM)Isis Wrote:(09-01-2013, 09:49 PM)Siobhain Wrote: I'm sorry I missed it. Do we have a section about half-breed characters?
Also, are Seeker harems or Keeper matriarchal groups actually being considered by anyone who might be following the original train of thought? Because I'm interested in hearing more details regarding how those groups might be handled, and again, there just ain't much in the realm of Roe culture to look at unless someone's uncovered something I haven't.
Hm. While my LS isn't specifically one or the other I would interested to see if anyone actually has started an all Seeker or Keeper bordello/harem/brothel. Whatever the kids are calling it these days. ( I welcome all races in Ambrosia!
Deleted
RE: Miqo’te Mating Strategies Explored: a biologist’s point of view - Aysun - 09-02-2013
(09-01-2013, 09:59 PM)Celesse Wrote: Personally, I find all that miqu'ote tribal culture (in Eorzea's setting) and particularly the mating part offsetting. For starters, I've yet to see Tia's or Nuhn's amongst NPCs.
There is a tia in the Waking Sands storage room, and a nunh, who also happens to be chieftain, of the only Seeker of the Sun tribe in the game which is located in the camp north of Sagolii in Thanalan.
The tribal culture seems rare, for Seekers anyway. The fact that we went 2 years in 1.0 without hearing a damn thing about it supports that as well as the populations seen in game. I am perfectly fine with the little amount of lore they provided us when explaining why Miqo'tes have the names they have, but I absolutely abhor discussion threads like this so I'll be bowing out again.
RE: Miqo’te Mating Strategies Explored: a biologist’s point of view - Myxie Tryxle - 09-02-2013
(09-01-2013, 04:51 PM)Kismet Wrote: While I do not find the thread pointless, because there is nothing wrong with theory-crafting and discussion... I am a little confused as to why it came about? The lore already distinctly states how both Miqo'te clans go about mating, so there wasn't really a need for speculation on that front. When it comes to RP, things will not always be so black and white. This I know. But the overly-extensive expansion upon the subject just seems unnecessarily excessive to me.
Part of it stems from different peoples' depth of understanding on biology. The original, concrete beginning of this thesis occurred in a thread where someone specifically asked questions about in-breeding in regards to the Seekers of the Sun. I got a lot of good feedback from that thread, and folks were generally interested in the perspective of someone with a deeper scientific background. There were other threads as well asking a variety of questions like "would Miqo'te be monogamous" or "would my Miqo'te be likely to have a father in the house?" I was bored and had a lot of time on my hands, so I endeavored to combine all those different ideas into one informative thread for discussion by the community. Also, this occurred in the 3-4 week period between beta phase 3 and phase 4, when I and many others were clamoring for something game related and working on the backgrounds for our Miqo'te characters.
RE: Miqo’te Mating Strategies Explored: a biologist’s point of view - Uther - 09-02-2013
(09-01-2013, 04:14 PM)Myxie Tryxle Wrote: For the four of you from Misericorde who seem to be spurring argument here
I have to say I resent this a bit. I don't want to be caught assuming offense here again, because I ended up with egg on my face last time.
We Misericorde members aren't trying to troll your thread or ruin your day. We just disagree with you.Â
I know Misericorde always ends up looking like the big bad e-bullies at the end of the day, but we're really just about furthering discussion. We disagree with a lot of stuff in the RPC forums, but it doesn't make us bad guys. We just often have a different opinion and we wish to express it, just as you wish to express yours. Somehow it always seems to get threads locked because we're not exactly masters of going about things with tact, but believe me when I say that our opinions are genuine and not just put up for the sake of hurting feelings.Â
You have every right to say whatever you want, and I will always defend that for you in any thread you go into. I just ask that you respect my right to do the same in return.Â
So, in summary, we're not an organization that goes around looking for feelings to hurt or fights to start. We just like to get into debates because you can learn a lot from them as long as they don't get personal.
That's all I've got on that.
RE: Miqo’te Mating Strategies Explored: a biologist’s point of view - Myxie Tryxle - 09-02-2013
(09-01-2013, 09:59 PM)Celesse Wrote: Personally, I find all that miqu'ote tribal culture (in Eorzea's setting) and particularly the mating part offsetting. For starters, I've yet to see Tia's or Nuhn's amongst NPCs.Â
And for the aforementioned points, I feel like much of the established miqu'ote lore doesn't make much sense to me.
And so, if there indeed was tribal miqu'otes roaming eorzea, and the mating rituals tied to that, they'd be pretty much living in a very closed society, like the amish. However, that's not concordant at all with what I've personally witnessed in game.
It's been said in this thread or another that the apparent vision for Miqo'te and their implementation in the game world differ considerably. The fluff on the Lodestone/Character Creator and the actual coding/quest writing were likely done by different writers with different goals for that writing (i.e. selling a vivid, interesting game world to consumers vs. churning out fifteen pages of quest text by the Friday deadline).
RE: Miqo’te Mating Strategies Explored: a biologist’s point of view - Myxie Tryxle - 09-02-2013
(09-02-2013, 01:57 AM)Uther Wrote:(09-01-2013, 04:14 PM)Myxie Tryxle Wrote: For the four of you from Misericorde who seem to be spurring argument here
I have to say I resent this a bit. I don't want to be caught assuming offense here again, because I ended up with egg on my face last time.
We Misericorde members aren't trying to troll your thread or ruin your day. We just disagree with you.Â
I know Misericorde always ends up looking like the big bad e-bullies at the end of the day, but we're really just about furthering discussion. We disagree with a lot of stuff in the RPC forums, but it doesn't make us bad guys. We just often have a different opinion and we wish to express it, just as you wish to express yours. Somehow it always seems to get threads locked because we're not exactly masters of going about things with tact, but believe me when I say that our opinions are genuine and not just put up for the sake of hurting feelings.Â
You have every right to say whatever you want, and I will always defend that for you in any thread you go into. I just ask that you respect my right to do the same in return.Â
So, in summary, we're not an organization that goes around looking for feelings to hurt or fights to start. We just like to get into debates because you can learn a lot from them as long as they don't get personal.
That's all I've got on that.
I can appreciate the objectivity of this statement. My apologies to Velkyron if you felt I was singling you out or berating your question. It's one that has appeared in this thread before and caused contention, so I was a little impatient in answering you as well as Uther's response to it.
I'll PM you Uther with my thoughts about this post.
RE: Miqo’te Mating Strategies Explored: a biologist’s point of view - Vinter - 09-02-2013
(09-01-2013, 11:01 PM)Dehqon Wrote: What has been made official besides generic relationship habits? They migrated here in the past when the seas froze, but why? Were they overpopulated in the homeland? Was this group unhappy with how things were? Were they just bored and curious?
How about typical diets besides the fish and milk cliche? Are they still nomadic? If so, how much territory could they cover and how far will they go to defend themselves from meddling outsiders? These things can be more vital to a culture than relationships because women who are too tired or nervous may not want sex with anybody no matter how desirable he is, assuming they have any choice in the matter. It can be left in the hands of roleplayers, but then you'll have different stories from each person which makes for a confusing scene for those who aren't as familiar as the "experts" they see.
"During the Age of Endless Frost, as the seas turned to ice and passage over them became possible, Eorzea saw an influx of foreign fauna to her shores. This in turn brought the hunting tribes which subsisted upon them, the modern descendants of whom are today known as the Miqo'te."
It's suggested they were simply following the herds of prey animals migrating to Eorzea.
As for food, looking at the cooking stuff in the game, both seekers and keepers are apparently fond of skewering and grilling their food.
There are three recipies for Miq'abob, which are essentially shish kebab. Tuna Miq'abob is described as a traditional keeper dish, while Forest Miq'abob with mushrooms, and Meat Miqa'bob with dodo meat and tomatoes, are traditional seeker dishes.
So, we can at least say with some certainty that they aren't strict carnivores.
RE: Miqo’te Mating Strategies Explored: a biologist’s point of view - Apoc1216 - 09-02-2013
Wow! So much info, I have read over it and I would make a joke about being a sexually frustrated Miqo'te Tia but well..I'm not a Miqo'te.
RE: Miqo’te Mating Strategies Explored: a biologist’s point of view - Xha'li Moui - 09-06-2013
There are at least two Tia and one Nuhn NPC that you'll meet during the MQ around lol 32/33.