Hydaelyn Role-Players
Official RP Server - Printable Version

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RE: Official RP Server - Pells - 08-06-2013

(08-05-2013, 06:17 PM)Xerek Wrote: I'll put up a post to this effect in a bit, but...why can't we pick a different server (Behemoth?) as our non-Legacy server?  Right now Gilgamesh is just a name.  No reason we can't simply take our settlers and move to a different server.
Because it wouldn't really matter.  At this point no matter which server you pick there will be some group somewhere that's already claimed it as 'theirs'. And there will be griefers and people who despise RP there too. And yet another post about a new unofficial RP server will likely be met by the same slew of negative replies, quite possibly by the same people posting in the Balmung and Gilgamesh (and Behemoth... and Leviathan...) threads.

I just fail to understand why the opinions of people not involved in the RP community even matter, I guess. It's not like there aren't ways to deal with harassment in-game.

RE: Official RP Server - LandStander - 08-06-2013

All the Balmung mother hens (and umm father seahorses?) need to let the chick-a-dees spread their wings and leave the nest. I definitely understand that a lot of us on Balmung want to keep the community as close as possible as the more of us there are, the more RP, and the more friends IG and OOG we can make, but some people are just too adamant about changing their minds no matter what and we should all just respect that so we don't create any bad blood. I would personally love to stay united under one server as the RPC originally was intended to do, but unless someone can Yoshi P the real world then we have to live with two communities for the time being. 

Lets just keep the misinformation about servers to a minimum. Slandering one server is uncalled for as we should all be promoting the RP community as a whole because at the end of the day we are all in this for the same reason.

RE: Official RP Server - Ari Kagon - 08-06-2013

*sits down Indian style with a guitar and starts to sing "Why can't we be friends?"*

RE: Official RP Server - Spiritual Machine - 08-06-2013

(08-06-2013, 01:47 PM)Yeldir Melfusor Wrote: Adelpha, I am genuinely surprised that you took away what you did from that post.  It was intended to capture the excitement of starting anew.  I am beginning to think that post was badly written, in particular, how I phrased the legacy whoppers bit.  That was directed at achievement oriented gamers who want to race to 50 on a fresh server, but the grammar is unclear.  It almost looks like I was implying that would affect roleplay quality in some way, which is absurd.

Yet, I need to say:
There is nothing in that post that was intended as an attack on Balmung.  You are filling in blanks I left blank because they are blank.  Some other server is any server someone is dissatisfied with.  Probably the worst thing I said about Balmung is that it has a pecking order.  It does.  That's a benefit to the kind of people who want to start out on Balmung - the kind of people who want a strong established community with well-understood rules and self-policies.   It's a detriment to people who want an unformed and uncertain environment and the opportunity to shape the community they are in.  Both of these attitudes are "right", in their own, way, and neither of them are wrong.

Every new player who decides to move to Balmung, I think, is making a decision they will be satisfied with, and it will be a good decision.  Balmung is a good server, with a strong, established community.  I have said this very thing in that same thread you've lifted my statements from, and I stand by them.
I read that thread, actually. I'm surprised that you're surprised--most of the people who responded in that advertising thread took it the same way. That is, negatively.

Also from that thread:

"If you're a roleplayer, you know exactly what kind of pecking order I'm hinting at. You type brb ooc at the wrong gala, and suddenly you're on The Blacklist. This is incredibly destructive, socially. If you haven't seen this in action personally, ask around."

I don't personally know any of the "Legacy players," which I assume is a term for the older members of Balmung. However, what I keep seeing on various other forums makes me think that many of proponents of starting a new RP server and moving people to a new RP server are doing it because they just don't like some of the people on Balmung, and there's no better reason than that.

Here's a quote from the leader of one of Gilgamesh's more prominent guilds:

"We were initially going Balmung, but we've had a few bad experiences with the Legacy players though. So, we're talking it over again.

"There will be a full character wipe after beta three ends anyway, so we just need to sort it out before B4. Gilgamesh is starting to look like a quite viable option."


I feel like both sides have something to consider from this.

From what I've seen, people on this site have been nothing but friendly and helpful to us newbies. I didn't pay attention to who in particular, though many of those folks were staff here, so I'd say a lot of those helpful folks were from Balmung.

Well, I don't know who on Balmung has been giving "Legacy players" a bad name, but you guys need to keep up the good work, and don't fall into bad habits. Evidently you upset some people at some point, and if you let bad habits drive new players off of Balmung, then let's face it--Balmung will turn into a stale relic.

Not to mention that the last thing any of us need is a further divided FFXIV RP community.

As for Gilgamesh folks, the "Legacy players" won't even be in the majority when the servers open. New roleplayers will rule the roost, and we'll have to all get along. The idea of a pecking order, and a server run by bullies, is not only ridiculous, but I've seen the same things said about Gilgamesh's LS community.

It's all stone-throwing, and it's kinda silly.

To those of you who are just going to Gilgamesh and encouraging others to go because you don't like some of the older players, or are afraid of them, do you think that's wise? Is it wise to run from a whole server because of a few jerks? Well, Gilgamesh is bound to have its share of jerks, all things considered.

So if that's why you weren't happy on Balmung, you won't be happy on Gilgamesh either.

I'll echo the tired sentiment of "why can't we all just get along?" but only because it's pretty clear that we aren't.

RE: Official RP Server - Asyria - 08-06-2013

Stop with the finger-pointing posts, guys. (notice I'm not pointing fingers here... but if anyone reading this ffeels pointed anyway, ask yourself why).
It's like poison spreading...

RE: Official RP Server - Yeldir Melfusor - 08-07-2013

(08-06-2013, 05:12 PM)Spiritual Machine Wrote: I read that thread, actually. I'm surprised that you're surprised--most of the people who responded in that advertising thread took it the same way. That is, negatively.
Well, they're the beta forums.  You could post pictures of a four course thanksgiving feast, and you'd get at least five guys calling your cooking skills into question for each dish.  I don't tend to take those forums seriously enough to consider the things I hear in it an accurate representation of any community.

As for the rest of your post, I think you've got an extremely good handle on the situation.  You made some cogent points, and I'd have to agree with all of them.

Yet, I genuinely believe that, assuming Gilgamesh endures the inevitable tribulations of playing on Superfuntime Server, accepts and finds acceptance the ruffians and bros we'll be playing with to any meaningful extent, the resultant community will be robust and flexible, and have a different "tone" to offer prospective roleplayers.

RE: Official RP Server - Selsix - 08-07-2013

So after much research, (yes I am outting myself as a 4chan user).

Most of 4chan is actually going to Ultros. 4chan migration to Gilgamesh will be minimal at best.

Now please stop freaking out.

Source:
http://boards.4chan.org/vg/res/43842876

(I don't advise clicking this link if you are not 18+ as 4chan is not a youth friendly website. If someone has a problem with this link here please let me know and I will be more than happy to remove it.)

RE: Official RP Server - Gideon Aryeh - 08-07-2013

"As a message directly to the Gilgamesh players; many of you act defensively towards us Balmung players, many of you act somewhat entitled, or demonstrate the very behaviors you claim to be leaving our server to avoid."

I see demonstrating an attitude towards inclusion as a good thing. If saying that "no we don't want that feeling of exclusiveness or locking people out here" is a bad thing  well then you can't please everyone. There have been those that have expressed similar feelings here who are heading to Balmung, and in an aggressive manner as well so don't place all of this so called behavior on us as if all of a sudden those smart alek separatists started all of this mess out of the blue. What I will tell you is that some of us were actually inspired by those comments and would love to use them as the building blocks to help the foundation on Gilgamesh. (so thank you, you know who you are!) See how good things come from Balmung! I myself want to change things because some things have been recently told to me of my past behavior that made me open my eyes (thank you - you know who you are as well) But nobody says a word about when such ideals are spoken about by a Balmung member. is it because they aren't going somewhere else? Because guess what you will be roleplaying alongside folk who feel exactly the same way many of us do. *winks*
 
 
Here is more of what it truly is. I personally see it more like a superhero comic book. Sorry if you don't like comics. I LOVE comics! Yay!!
 
Captain America and the Avengers has just made New York City a great place, its save and everything is wonderful, no more crime. They have been doing an excellent job and things are truly idyllic. Due to one day having to stay in Avengers Manor out in LA because the NYC location was under construction, some of the heroes currently with the Avengers meets some of the struggling young superheroes there trying to help their home. One of the younger superheroes who is part of the team, Cannonball fresh from the Xmen, he looks around and sees how great Captain America and the Avengers have done with NYC and says "Wow, you know what, I'd like to do this in Los Angeles because Los Angeles sucks". See thing is Cannonball got an alert about the New Warriors getting started in Los Angeles. They don't really have much to do with the Avengers, but that doesn't and truly shouldn't matter because you know, they are all superheroes. Some young heroes Cannonball knows are already going out there to help the new young superhero team who is overwhelmed, they want to strike out on their own and follow in Cap's footsteps. Some of them want to make a name, some of them want to establish themselves, some of them want to become their own man or woman a lot of them truly want to help the burgeoning local heroes establish their own .
 
     Whatever the reason whether to help or for glory they are heading to Los Angeles. Did Captain America do anything wrong? Not at all, if anything he should be proud of the junior heroes and support their cause. Does Cap remind the young heroes that leaving the warmth and safety of the Avengers is wrong? Never! why would a superhero do such a thing? Hell one day Cap and Cannonball might do a Marvel Team Up right in Los Angeles! (What a great read, hell I'd buy that issue!)  Now does this mean that Cannonball will stop talking to Cap ever because he wants to strike out on his own? No! If anything he wants Cap's blessings! Does this mean that Cannonball and his friends sometimes gets super idealistic, yep! Because he's young and brash and idealistic (he's an Xman after all), sometimes the Avengers get into arguments, because well that's real life. Doesn't mean they can't play cards later on. But right now Cannonball and his friends are all full of that young energy and feeling their britches. Young superheroes what are you gonna do? *shrugs* 
 
    So what ends up happening is that Cannonball and company (Sunspot, Eden, and some other newer heroes on the Avengers) decide go out to help and they sure do have their trials and tribulations, but guess what. someone is helping to clean up Los Angeles, trying to make it just as great as New York City. Along the way mean ol Wolverine decides to help. He likes the scrappy new kids and they like him.  Not everybody may like Wolverine, but hell if you got a city to clean up that's overrun, well hell might as well send one of the scariest superheroes in the Marvel Universe along! Sure as hell beats him accidentally gutting Cap one day over an argument or something! With him gone he's less of a headache for the Avengers and great for the young supers to have along when they need a big bad to fight the big bads. Nothing like Wolverine threatening to pop the third claw when Omega Red rears his nasty face! 
 
And voila we have a great new comic that gets to sit on the shelves right next to the Avengers! and now when I go to the comic shop I get to buy two comics instead of one! Make Mine Marvel!
 
And that is how I see this whole thing. And yes I'm silly sorry to anyone that doesn't like comics cause I Luv them!
 
See the thing is that there were roleplayers going to Gilgamesh whether or not the rpc supported rpers going there. Just like there are roleplayers going to Behemoth, Leviathan and Cactuar. Even if all the rpers who came here stayed on Balmung there would be roleplayers heading to Gilgamesh from unwanted communities like Reddit, and 4chan and whatever other site is going there, and I see the RPC being a force to unite all roleplayers who make FFXIV their home. Right?

RE: Official RP Server - shotgunbadger - 08-07-2013

That's kinda a weird analogy. The point of the split in the comics was LA needed more heroes because, ya know, comic world, crime all the time and usually involving crazy people in spandex with death rays.

You wouldn't be 'depriving' anyone if you stayed with the RP community, Gligamesh isn't in a crime wave or being invaded by Skrulls. What is being deprived is the place already having a community that's already a minority, all this does is split it up and make it even harder to meet and such. It's kinda weird to compare a split that's mainly boiled down to 'there will be high level people day one I don't like that' to an altruistic world protection cause...

RE: Official RP Server - Gideon Aryeh - 08-07-2013

(08-07-2013, 03:39 AM)shotgunbadger Wrote: That's kinda a weird analogy. The point of the split in the comics was LA needed more heroes because, ya know, comic world, crime all the time and usually involving crazy people in spandex with death rays.

You wouldn't be 'depriving' anyone if you stayed with the RP community, Gligamesh isn't in a crime wave or being invaded by Skrulls. What is being deprived is the place already having a community that's already a minority, all this does is split it up and make it even harder to meet and such. It's kinda weird to compare a split that's mainly boiled down to 'there will be high level people day one I don't like that' to an altruistic world protection cause...
 Ah but see it isn't a weird analogy because as I mentioned there are going to be roleplayers there whether or not we were there. and they will have to deal with the more trollish communities.
 
Don't believe me?
Say hello to the New Warriors
 
http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/1da2ra/ffxivarr_roleplay/
 
During beta phase 3 when was actively telling the community that there was going to be rp on the server I got lots of tells from guild leaders telling me that they had members who were interested in roleplaying. Many of these guilds were not roleplay oriented, but they wanted to keep their members on the server and didn't want to lose them because they couldn't provide roleplaying because they had a different focus. If you played in Ul'dah during the end of beta 3 you would of seen ads by guild called Tempest as they kept spamming chat. This guild would be one of the ones I was talking about. A non rp guild who are Gilgamesh bound who had people interested in roleplay. How do I know this? Because one of the members of the guild tried out rp with me and some friends of mine during Beta 3.
 
I've also gotten PMs from Redditers for their community not to be stereotyped. Guess where? Here, lurkers on the forums from the link I posted above. If you check a voting thread done by the Reddit community that's been circling the net (its even been posted here) a very high number of them are interested in trying out roleplay for the first time. Do you think that would just stop if nobody from the RPC rped on Gilgamesh? Probably not, but you'd have a hell of a lot less mentors around and veteran roleplayers letting the new folk who want to rp for the first time know that roleplaying is cool. Many of these people don't want to leave their respective raiding/socializing/pvping/crafting/etc/etc guilds, but there is interest amongst these folk to rp regardless, again many of them for the first time.
 
And then you have the folk who are coming here who want to rp on a non legacy server. Regardless of how anyone feels about it people are going to go where they want. People have minds of their own and their choices are there own. Trying to convince them over and over again about how nice the pool is in one place just eventually becomes like the sound of a broken record after a while it can be just annoying. So its just about respecting peoples positions on things and not being too pushy. Some will go to Gilgamesh and absolutely hate it. Some will go there and love it, but why not let adults be adults and respect their decisions regardless? And if something great is made then nobody loses out in the long run because a bigger community is a better one. Think about it like this. If enough roleplayers are around and making enough noise SE might decide to just say "you know what, we promised these guys a rp server, lets just make one already and those that want to go there get free transfers". Wishful thinking I know but I think Yoshi is a reasonable guy if perhaps shown that there is a reasonable enough demand. And I am more than sure that he also would think of us as a roleplay community across his game. Not just a single server. *winks* as it should be.
 
I mean I know this won't necessarily be a perfect solution for everyone, but I'm sure for many it would be a fantastic thing indeed.
 
Read the link above and the ones I have earlier in this thread to see what I'm talking about.
*posted up wrong link its fixed now, lol embarrassing! lol*

RE: Official RP Server - Ashren Dotharl - 08-07-2013

Ultimate this argument is never going to go away so long as two servers and two communities exist in one space. The simple fact that we acknowledge that there are differences between the two servers, that we weigh pros and cons, means that anytime someone even mentions being unsure of which server they want to go to people will immediately jump to proclaim which server they think is better. None of us here can be unbiased, not completely. We can all sit here and grit our teeth and smile and say how much we want Gilgamesh to succeed... but I don't think that's 100% honest. I don't think anyone wants Gilgamesh to fail, but until recently Balmung was the primary home of RP at least for this chunk of the community, and ever person that goes over to Gilgamesh takes away from that once united community and furthers the divide. At the same time many people on Gilgamesh have let slip, even in small ways, that it's not about not wanting to be on our server, it's about not wanting to play with us. I've seen people accuse Balmung of having a pecking order, being elitists, saying stuff like "who wants to play with level 50s?" So the prejudice is definitely there.

In short, this argument won't go away because many people on Balmung resent players from pulling away from the community, even if they won't outright say it, and many of the people on Gilgamesh resent players on Balmung for being here first, even if they won't come out and say it. This of course is a generalization, so if it doesn't pertain to you or you disagree with me just assume I wasn't talking about you. I'm just saying what I've seen from both sides.

RE: Official RP Server - Selsix - 08-07-2013

(08-07-2013, 04:30 AM)Ashren Snow Wrote: many of the people on Gilgamesh resent players on Balmung for being here first, even if they won't come out and say it.

If you are convinced that this is the reason why people don't want to be on Balmung then you are part of the problem, not the solution.

RE: Official RP Server - Ashren Dotharl - 08-07-2013

(08-07-2013, 04:44 AM)Selsix Wrote:
(08-07-2013, 04:30 AM)Ashren Snow Wrote: many of the people on Gilgamesh resent players on Balmung for being here first, even if they won't come out and say it.

If you are convinced that that is the reason why then you are part of the problem, not the solution.
Every reason given for going over to Gilgamesh has been either because of our levels, our gil, because many feel anything that can be done has been done on Balmung, and a number of other reasons. I'm not devaluing these opinions, not am I saying they aren't sound, I'm just saying that many people are going to Gilgamesh because they have this feeling they can't belong because we were already here, and the resent us for that.

If people could just admit it and stop trying to tip toe around each other we might actually be able to co-exist peacefully, even if this argument or these feelings won't ever go away.

RE: Official RP Server - Selsix - 08-07-2013

(08-07-2013, 04:50 AM)Ashren Snow Wrote:
(08-07-2013, 04:44 AM)Selsix Wrote:
(08-07-2013, 04:30 AM)Ashren Snow Wrote: many of the people on Gilgamesh resent players on Balmung for being here first, even if they won't come out and say it.

If you are convinced that that is the reason why then you are part of the problem, not the solution.
Every reason given for going over to Gilgamesh has been either because of our levels, our gil, because many feel anything that can be done has been done on Balmung, and a number of other reasons. I'm not devaluing these opinions, not am I saying they aren't sound, I'm just saying that many people are going to Gilgamesh because they have this feeling they can't belong because we were already here, and the resent us for that.

If people could just admit it and stop trying to tip toe around each other we might actually be able to co-exist peacefully, even if this argument or these feelings won't ever go away.

So wanting to be on a realm that doesn't already have accomplished players on it means we RESENT the accomplished players? You're assuming WAY too much. Do we see it as something that can interfere with our play experience? Yes. Most definitely. That is the entire reason for most of us, or at least for myself.

But that's where it ends. We don't RESENT you for it. We aren't being FORCED to play with you. We are playing on another realm so that we WON'T resent you. If SE forced everyone to play on Legacy realms? Then you would see resentment.

This is us just avoiding a potential problem. This is how I see Legacy realms vs Non-Legacy:

Say you're waiting for a bus, and you see your bus coming that shows no signs of stopping. Now ALL of your friends are on this bus, so you can very well jump in front of it and HOPE it stops so you can get on the bus, or go splat in the road.

Or the complete other option would be, let this bus go and wait for the next one. Maybe you'll make some new friends while avoiding the potential gruesome road pizza. It doesn't mean you can't still be friends with the guys on the last bus, but it means a possible interesting situation for you. Could it go badly? Most definitely. The next bus might be filled with muggers, terrorists, or worse... The entire cast of Jersey Shore. But it could also contain your future best friends whom you could introduce to your old buddies and be one big happy family, even if you aren't always together.

That put it in perspective for you?

RE: Official RP Server - Ashren Dotharl - 08-07-2013

(08-07-2013, 05:00 AM)Selsix Wrote: That put it in perspective for you?
So what you're saying is that you see Balmung as a speeding bus that won't stop for anyone and will mow you down without a second thought if you got in its way. That does give perspective.

Also

Resent, Noun: Bitter indignation at having been treated unfairly.


Indignation, Noun: Anger or annoyance provoked by what is perceived as unfair treatment.


Both of these kinda sound pretty spot on. Resentment is an ugly word, I know, but it doesn't make it any less accurate for this argument.