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+--- Thread: Official RP Server (/showthread.php?tid=3296)
RE: Official RP Server - shotgunbadger - 08-07-2013
What happens when server transfers open up and the legacy people start to filter over, though?
(08-07-2013, 08:20 PM)Selsix Wrote:(08-07-2013, 08:12 PM)Ashren Snow Wrote: Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn is not a fresh new game, it is a three year old game being rebranded and resold with a different name. The fact that our servers and characters from 1.0 still exists proves this, the fact that the core mechanics have only barely changed also shows this. They changed the UI, tweaked the mechanics to make them enjoyable, but it's not a brand new game, it's just an expansion.
This is no different than when World of Warcraft came out with the Cataclysm expansion to draw in more new subscribers.
I hate to break it to you, but it is pretty much a new game. Cataclysm was an expansion, it simply added content and re-vamped some old geography.
A Realm Reborn is an entire re-design of the game's interface, graphics engine, environment, questing, battle system, features, and endgame content.
It may not be a BRAND new game. But it's as close as you can possibly get. And if I'm allowed to play on a server without any pre-leveled characters on it in this new world? I'm going to.
(08-07-2013, 08:18 PM)shotgunbadger Wrote: I really have no idea how the legacy players can 'have us by the balls' though. Can you actually explain that and why it's a certainty?
Sure can.
Scenario 1: Say a legacy player has an item and wants to sell it. Now this item isn't for sale and since he's a Legacy player, and he has plenty of cash left over from 1.0. He can now charge whatever he'd like for this item before an actual economy is re-established simply because there are no other ones for sale.
Scenario 2: Now let's say a non-legacy player puts up some crafting materials for sale. A legacy player sees they are fairly cheap, because again, there is no real economy in place yet. So he buys all of them, which sure might give the new player some profit. But what can he do then? Re-sell them all for MUCH more. Thus causing a problem. This particular issue happens even late game, but the key difference is late game there is an economy in place, so it has marginal success due to market influx.
By this logic we should just put a cap on gil because like you said this problem happens no matter what. There will always be newbies who undervalue things, that happened in FFXI a lot and nothing was destroyed.
RE: Official RP Server - Selsix - 08-07-2013
(08-07-2013, 08:24 PM)shotgunbadger Wrote: What happens when server transfers open up and the legacy people start to filter over, though?
Then good for them? If they want to come over at that point go for it. By the time that becomes a feature (which won't be for MONTHS), I will welcome them over with open arms because everyone will likely be on the same page in terms of endgame content, and an economy will already be in place.
EDIT:
(08-07-2013, 08:24 PM)shotgunbadger Wrote: By this logic we should just put a cap on gil because like you said this problem happens no matter what. There will always be newbies who undervalue things, that happened in FFXI a lot and nothing was destroyed.
You completely missed my point. The argument wasn't that newbies get taken advantage of. It's that Legacy players may not only be taking advantage of the new players, they can take advantage of the lack of an economy.
RE: Official RP Server - Arelian - 08-07-2013
(08-07-2013, 08:20 PM)Selsix Wrote:To actually try and form this into a discussion...(08-07-2013, 08:12 PM)Ashren Snow Wrote: Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn is not a fresh new game, it is a three year old game being rebranded and resold with a different name. The fact that our servers and characters from 1.0 still exists proves this, the fact that the core mechanics have only barely changed also shows this. They changed the UI, tweaked the mechanics to make them enjoyable, but it's not a brand new game, it's just an expansion.
This is no different than when World of Warcraft came out with the Cataclysm expansion to draw in more new subscribers.
I hate to break it to you, but it is pretty much a new game. Cataclysm was an expansion, it simply added content and re-vamped some old geography.
A Realm Reborn is an entire re-design of the game's interface, graphics engine, environment, questing, battle system, features, and endgame content.
It may not be a BRAND new game. But it's as close as you can possibly get. And if I'm allowed to play on a server without any pre-leveled characters on it in this new world? I'm going to.
(08-07-2013, 08:18 PM)shotgunbadger Wrote: I really have no idea how the legacy players can 'have us by the balls' though. Can you actually explain that and why it's a certainty?
Sure can.
Scenario 1: Say a legacy player has an item and wants to sell it. Now this item isn't for sale and since he's a Legacy player, and he has plenty of cash left over from 1.0. He can now charge whatever he'd like for this item before an actual economy is re-established simply because there are no other ones for sale.
Scenario 2: Now let's say a non-legacy player puts up some crafting materials for sale. A legacy player sees they are fairly cheap, because again, there is no real economy in place yet. So he buys all of them, which sure might give the new player some profit. But what can he do then? Re-sell them all for MUCH more. Thus causing a problem. This particular issue happens even late game, but the key difference is late game there is an economy in place, so it has marginal success due to market influx.
In both of your scenario's you're assuming that the non-legacy player wouldn't do the same as the legacy player. Just for some food-for-thought...
On a non-legacy server, there's going to be a big supply issue at first. The people that bumrush crafting classes will undoubtedly control the market for a long time, at least until others catch up with them. For example:
Player <A> is a crafter. He HQs a level 50 item within 3-4 days of the game coming out. Since an economy doesn't exist yet, that player can literally hold this item hostage and set whatever price they want. Player <B> has 2 choices. They can try to make enough gil to purchase the item, perpetuating the economy's price for that item and keeping prices high. The second choice is to level crafting all the way up and craft the item for themselves. Most players will chose Option 1, thus keeping the item price high.
The reason this dilemma might not exist on a Legacy server is the fact that several people will be coming into things with high-level or capped crafting to begin with. This already means that the market will have more of any one certain item available and the initial price will potentially be lower. I say potentially because there's always the likelihood of someone controlling the market, as you pointed out.
There's no way to get around the fact that certain people will control the economy early on, be it on a legacy server or non-legacy. Everyone starts off equal on a non-legacy, but some players have already mapped out the optimized ways to get a craft to 50 and literally roll in the money.
RE: Official RP Server - Ashren Dotharl - 08-07-2013
(08-07-2013, 08:20 PM)Selsix Wrote:What is to stop me from coming over to Gilgamesh and leveling Miner or Botanist, getting crafting supplies and selling them for extraordinary amounts of money? Your example says that people with money will try to control the market by selling items for more money than people can actually afford or are willing to spend. In what world does that actually make sense? In what world does that actually work? If anything it will be the other way around, people who have little money will over charge items because they assume that there are higher level players that can afford them. This same thing will happen on Gilgamesh too, people will grind gathering classes to sell materials for over inflated prices because they know there isn't any competition on the server.(08-07-2013, 08:12 PM)Ashren Snow Wrote: Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn is not a fresh new game, it is a three year old game being rebranded and resold with a different name. The fact that our servers and characters from 1.0 still exists proves this, the fact that the core mechanics have only barely changed also shows this. They changed the UI, tweaked the mechanics to make them enjoyable, but it's not a brand new game, it's just an expansion.
This is no different than when World of Warcraft came out with the Cataclysm expansion to draw in more new subscribers.
I hate to break it to you, but it is pretty much a new game. Cataclysm was an expansion, it simply added content and re-vamped some old geography.
A Realm Reborn is an entire re-design of the game's interface, graphics engine, environment, questing, battle system, features, and endgame content.
It may not be a BRAND new game. But it's as close as you can possibly get. And if I'm allowed to play on a server without any pre-leveled characters on it in this new world? I'm going to.
(08-07-2013, 08:18 PM)shotgunbadger Wrote: I really have no idea how the legacy players can 'have us by the balls' though. Can you actually explain that and why it's a certainty?
Sure can.
Scenario 1: Say a legacy player has an item and wants to sell it. Now this item isn't for sale and since he's a Legacy player, and he has plenty of cash left over from 1.0. He can now charge whatever he'd like for this item before an actual economy is re-established simply because there are no other ones for sale.
Scenario 2: Now let's say a non-legacy player puts up some crafting materials for sale. A legacy player sees they are fairly cheap, because again, there is no real economy in place yet. So he buys all of them, which sure might give the new player some profit. But what can he do then? Re-sell them all for MUCH more. Thus causing a problem. This particular issue happens even late game, but the key difference is late game there is an economy in place, so it has marginal success due to market influx.
RE: Official RP Server - shotgunbadger - 08-07-2013
Yea what about people like me who are starting new but used to play, and who read a lot on crafting and all, I can make a lot of gil pretty fast, if I go all obsessive I can have a hefty wallet in a day or so. If I rolled on Gilgamesh aren't I just as much a 'problem' as the dude who had it just lying around?
RE: Official RP Server - Selsix - 08-07-2013
(08-07-2013, 08:53 PM)shotgunbadger Wrote: Yea what about people like me who are starting new but used to play, and who read a lot on crafting and all, I can make a lot of gil pretty fast, if I go all obsessive I can have a hefty wallet in a day or so. If I rolled on Gilgamesh aren't I just as much a 'problem' as the dude who had it just lying around?
No, because it still took you TIME. Sure, it poses a problem either way. But you won't be able to do this the SECOND you log in. Also, this is only part of the reason, my major concern specifically is the level aspect.
RE: Official RP Server - Fiona Swift - 08-07-2013
What's going on here?!?! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWslNfc3GvU
RE: Official RP Server - Ashren Dotharl - 08-07-2013
The way I see it, the people on the RPC spent a lot of time and effort trying to organize the RP community so that the vast majority of us would all be on Balmung, so that like how people are saying Gilgamesh is the Reddit Server, people would say Balmung was the RP server. Two to three years of work put into this community to build a single strong group all localized in one place.
Now all the sudden because of the paranoia and elitism perpetrated on the beta forums against 1.0 players by the new players a lot of the new folks are showing up and declaring they don't want to play with us and their splitting to go their own way. This is like a slap in the face to all the people who worked hard to try and get the community all onto Balmung to begin with.
Sure, you can say that people would have gone off to join Gilgamesh anyways, or that there was already an RP community forming there from somewhere else, Reddit or otherwise, but it begs the question. Why did you join a website, hosted by and intended for a community that was localized on Balmung if you never had any intention of playing on Balmung, or with any of them to begin with?
Some of you have said you wished you could play with us, if that were the case you'd be rolling on Balmung and not Gilgamesh, and I promise you if Yoshida lifted the server restrictions and allowed Legacies to transfer freely to any server you would all lose your shit over it.
RE: Official RP Server - Selsix - 08-07-2013
(08-07-2013, 10:16 PM)Ashren Snow Wrote: The way I see it, the people on the RPC spent a lot of time and effort trying to organize the RP community so that the vast majority of us would all be on Balmung, so that like how people are saying Gilgamesh is the Reddit Server, people would say Balmung was the RP server. Two to three years of work put into this community to build a single strong group all localized in one place.
Now all the sudden because of the paranoia and elitism perpetrated on the beta forums against 1.0 players by the new players a lot of the new folks are showing up and declaring they don't want to play with us and their splitting to go their own way. This is like a slap in the face to all the people who worked hard to try and get the community all onto Balmung to begin with.
Sure, you can say that people would have gone off to join Gilgamesh anyways, or that there was already an RP community forming there from somewhere else, Reddit or otherwise, but it begs the question. Why did you join a website, hosted by and intended for a community that was localized on Balmung if you never had any intention of playing on Balmung, or with any of them to begin with?
Some of you have said you wished you could play with us, if that were the case you'd be rolling on Balmung and not Gilgamesh, and I promise you if Yoshida lifted the server restrictions and allowed Legacies to transfer freely to any server you would all lose your shit over it.
First of all, I'm not FROM the beta forums. I didn't see any "paranoid" or "elitist" posts. One of my best buds is a Legacy player. Where is he from? Balmung. He's the one who explained all this to me, and he himself is also starting over on Gilgamesh. (He's also 50 in every class, save for arcanist obviously. So I trust his judgment as he has been playing since 1.0 alpha) I've done my own research on the subject following, but please stop making generalized assumptions of the Gilgamesh community.
Secondly, I didn't JOIN a Balmung oriented RP site. I joined an FFXIV roleplaying site, because that's what this is. When I found it? The Gilgamesh forums were already here.
And if they lifted it at launch? You bet your ass I would lose my shit over it. But if he lifts it later? I won't care one bit. Because at that point it won't matter anymore. But the fact is it matters NOW. At least to me, and at least to all of the other Gilgamesh players on this site. And no amount of logic or reasoning from your end is going to change that. Deal with it.
RE: Official RP Server - Kylin - 08-07-2013
I made a request several pages back. And I come back from work to find that it has been ignored for multiple pages. I don't care if you "take issue" with my request. Enough is enough. This is not a "debate." It's a childish argument where people want to get the last word. You're seriously talking in circles.
You're all making this entire community look bad, and I will no longer stand for it. I'm putting my foot down now. Call me a tyrant if you will. I don't care. This is my last warning. Stop posting here. Now. That's not open to discussion. The ONLY reason this thread is not locked is because there needs to be an open thread about the issue for new people to post questions in. That's it.
Stop.
Edit: The mods and I will prepare a new Q&A sticky thread for the new people. This thread has long run its course and is damaging to the RPC as a whole. Locked.
RE: Official RP Server - Yini Kihn - 08-07-2013
(08-07-2013, 10:51 PM)Kylin Wrote: The ONLY reason this thread is not locked is because there needs to be an open thread about the issue for new people to post questions in. That's it.
May I politely suggest creating a new thread dedicated to questions from new members and linking it in the site-wide notice as I mentioned elsewhere? The quicker this thread can be buried and a fresh, genial thread for new members take the focus, the better I think.