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+--- Thread: Sword Arm Focused Gladiator? (/showthread.php?tid=3757)
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Sword Arm Focused Gladiator? - DriftingFable - 08-20-2013
Alright so I'm rolling pugilist at the moment whilst I await my true calling in the form of a two handed swordsman class. And I'm really liking pugilist, so I took up gladiator to prepare for monk and to remedy the tank shortage.
However, I do not like shields, the designs just look like an overall meh. I prefer to focus on my pure sword arm and laugh at the enemies damage to my healthbar. Much like Thancred(who's supposed to be a bard, but hey he sure fought like a gladiator). Hell, I barely even noticed Aldis carried a shield with that sword of his, it makes the board look like a pure afterthought. While sure Marauder is probably more suited for what I want to do, I really like swordsmanship and the swordsman of the game just so happens to be gladiator.
I'm fully willing to accept that shielded gladiators will outperform me, but I'd like to know just by how much. I mean so far in the 1-20 portion of the beta I've had little trouble with death. At worst I'd loose aggro to a carbunkle or two and sometimes get brought down to half my HP on raid bosses before the healer gets in gear. I'd just like to know if I'm a complete liability to my party or not because of my decision.
Worse comes to worse I suppose I could at least get a shield for the raids and quest without one if need be.
RE: Sword Arm Focused Gladiator? - Merri - 08-20-2013
Speaking strictly from an endgame standpoint, there is literally zero bonuses for not using a shield. There's only negative aspects. You'll take more damage, which won't be appreciated by healers. You also will lose access to several Gladiator skills (You will literally be unable to use them without a shield equipped) that are both very useful and pretty much a necessity to make pulling and tanking easier.
Not using a shield is probably only going to make people look at you and go "What is this guy doing?"Â
When you're soloing, it's all fine and dandy what you do, but if you bring RP into a group setting with non-roleplayers, it's likely some will ostracize you for your choices and speaking as some one who's primary focus is in endgame/in-game content, it's just kind of flat out rude to purposefully make your character perform worse for the sake of aesthetics. Making yourself take more damage and making yourself less efficient is kind of like saying "I don't care if I die or cause a wipe and waste your time." to strangers.
If you run with a static and your friends are okay with it, by all means, but I personally wouldn't do it with strangers.
Just my opinion on the matter, however.
RE: Sword Arm Focused Gladiator? - FreelanceWizard - 08-20-2013
To echo Merri's point, it just gets worse over time. The loss of stats, mitigation, and abilities from not carrying a shield will start to seriously catch up with you when the dungeon difficulty ramps up (early on this is visible in Toto-rak, where even a well-equipped Gladiator gets to play health bar ping-pong with the healer; in Haukke, I'm pretty sure you'd be nearly impossible to keep alive). I think it's safe to say that, yes, you would be a liability, and you'd probably catch flak IC for doing so. Characters in the world are aware of the use of shields, and someone who chooses not to wear one without a good reason (e.g., carrying a two-handed weapon, having to cast using two hands) is going to raise some eyebrows ICly.
Worst of all, among non-RPers, this would reinforce by providing an example the perception that RPers don't know how to play, don't care to learn, and put immersion above gameplay to the detriment of a group. That'll drop some serious OOC flak on you.
I apologize for this sounding harsh, but I implore you to reconsider this course of action. You're basically choosing aesthetics over the survival of your group and at the same time tossing aside the lore of your class as established by its mechanics.
Solo, of course, you can do whatever you like, but again, since this steps outside what a Gladiator normally does, you might get some odd looks or questions from people IC when you're out questing -- since to their characters, you're doing something abnormal.
RE: Sword Arm Focused Gladiator? - Asyria - 08-20-2013
It really sucks when what you really want to play isn't in the game!
Like.. why not give Marauder all manners of non-polearm tw-handed weapons? Why only greataxes and not also greatswords, huge hammers and maces? That would be awesome.
Maybe we get another class later that fits...
For now though a Gladiator without a shield... well it looks cool, but it's simply innefficient.Â
I haven't played much in 1.0 and but I know even between level 1 and 2, there is a difference in fight difficulty. It's not very noticeable but it's there and, typically, it always gets worses and forces you to be better at your class and in your role.
That's always how it is in mmo's.
Unfortunately, as far as Gladiators go, that means getting better at tanking and that means using a shield...
So to the question "how much will I be outperformed", I join the above posters in saying "a lot".
Sorry!
RE: Sword Arm Focused Gladiator? - Desmond Aryll - 08-20-2013
While it seems like gladiators are just impractical to use without shields for now, maybe the other job will be a strictly sword only deal. From the actual explanation of the class:
"Many use a sword and shield, others prefer to focus solely on their sword hand and leave their off hand empty."
So in my mind, that leaves the door open for a more aggressive job in gladiator's future.Why bother mentioning that at all if it's meaningless?
RE: Sword Arm Focused Gladiator? - doctorgalactic - 08-20-2013
(08-20-2013, 05:14 PM)Desmond Aryll Wrote: While it seems like gladiators are just impractical to use without shields for now, maybe the other job will be a strictly sword only deal. From the actual explanation of the class:
"Many use a sword and shield, others prefer to focus solely on their sword hand and leave their off hand empty."
So in my mind, that leaves the door open for a more aggressive job in gladiator's future.Why bother mentioning that at all if it's meaningless?
Are they taunting at a 'Swordsman' class, or the fabled 'Fencer' that was in the code for 1.0. Â Guess we'll have to wait and see, but it's all aboard the speculation train!
RE: Sword Arm Focused Gladiator? - Desmond Aryll - 08-20-2013
(08-20-2013, 05:18 PM)doctorgalactic Wrote:(08-20-2013, 05:14 PM)Desmond Aryll Wrote: While it seems like gladiators are just impractical to use without shields for now, maybe the other job will be a strictly sword only deal. From the actual explanation of the class:
"Many use a sword and shield, others prefer to focus solely on their sword hand and leave their off hand empty."
So in my mind, that leaves the door open for a more aggressive job in gladiator's future.Why bother mentioning that at all if it's meaningless?
Are they taunting at a 'Swordsman' class, or the fabled 'Fencer' that was in the code for 1.0. Â Guess we'll have to wait and see, but it's all aboard the speculation train!
I bought a ticket for the "Auron type" swordsmen train cart already.
RE: Sword Arm Focused Gladiator? - Jove - 08-20-2013
I had the same dilemma when it came to archery, since that's the class I've usually played in MMOs, but I didn't want to specialise in being a bard as there's no way in Hydaelyn I'd be caught singing.
I don't know how classes and jobs will be affected by end game content, but I assumed people would want a bard over an archer so I went with something else (also Limsa Lominsa is a badass place to start in my opinion).
However, the best thing in this game is that you're not stuck to your class. I'm praying for a marksman or musketeer class because that's my true calling. But until then, you have a lot of options, so just choose your second favourite... or at least the one you dislike the least.
A good way of looking at each class is by their roles. Marauders and Gladiators are both tanks, if you want to do dungeons with strangers, you have to be a tank, there's no way around that.
So do you really want to tank? A dual sword wielding character sounds more like DPS to me, so even if it's not swords, a lancer or pugilist might suit your play style more? I think whether you're having fun playing your role is probably the most important choice you can make.
Besides you can easily RP your different role, for example a dual sword wielding knight might theoretically get some lancer training for chocobo jousting.
(I really want chocobo jousting to be a thing)
RE: Sword Arm Focused Gladiator? - Qhora Bajihri - 08-20-2013
(08-20-2013, 05:14 PM)Desmond Aryll Wrote: While it seems like gladiators are just impractical to use without shields for now, maybe the other job will be a strictly sword only deal. From the actual explanation of the class:
"Many use a sword and shield, others prefer to focus solely on their sword hand and leave their off hand empty."
Yes! I remember seeing this and then getting into the game and wondering where my one-handed sword options were. I wouldn't dare go without my shield, but they said that thing. Why did they say it?!
RE: Sword Arm Focused Gladiator? - DriftingFable - 08-20-2013
I've actually little reasoning RPwise for my decision, it was more along the lines that the option simply existed. As stated before, there were gladiators who used the shield and those that didn't. While shield seems like the obvious choice for the tank, I wanted give the less popular route a try and see if it could work out adequately. I love taking the least popular routes in a game and playing around with it. I figured if the class description went to such lengths to state such a thing, there'd be some form of support for it. The shield skills I've got didn't link with a combo nor did they aid MP generation for my flash skill. So I figured why not? Alas now I can't seem to find that depiction anymore on the official site, so looks like that route is gone forever.
Regardless of my previous views, sounds like the shield does gain more importance in the later game so I'll start bringing bucklers into battle and try re-experimenting with the shield skills, perhaps I just didn't give my lower level shields enough credit for the job it did.
Maybe I'll try a marauder some time and get used to the axe design, but my beta experience gives me the impression that gladiator is in the minority of the two tanking classes based on the player's I've encountered.
Should I ever decide to leave the shield at home for field work, I could ICly probably just say its an off hand dagger rather than calling myself a gladiator(considering I normally in the field main Pugilist). But heck I could be fully converted to shields by then.
But really, thanks for your thoughts everyone.
RE: Sword Arm Focused Gladiator? - Asyria - 08-20-2013
I just hope they do it soon if they really are gonna do it and not do like the Musketeer crap from 1.0. Starting in Limsa had you involved with the Musketeer guild RIGHT AWAY in the story and yet after all this time it's still not a class...
RE: Sword Arm Focused Gladiator? - LeCard - 08-20-2013
it sounds like the devs had originally planed for several variations of the gladiator, one of which is the shield bearing gld. But they never got around to making the extra secondary weapon slot item/ skill set and have since ditched those plans or at least concealed all traces of the option.
RE: Sword Arm Focused Gladiator? - Erik Mynhier - 08-20-2013
I've got a bet going with a buddy of mine that they will be throwing us a DRK before the 1 year anniversary. My money is riding on it being a great sword using job with a class like Slayer as its starting, with lv15 gladiator making it happen. Just hold on brother, they'll give you something, even if its not that.
RE: Sword Arm Focused Gladiator? - Pells - 08-20-2013
In 1.0, shield skills were learned separately from sword skills. They've since abandoned this, but perhaps the description was never updated?
RE: Sword Arm Focused Gladiator? - DriftingFable - 08-20-2013
I can say the description has certainly updated to reflect that change. There is no longer such a clause as gladiators being empty off handed on the official site anymore. So I can only assume the role is gone.
Oh well, Two handed swordsmen will come eventually. And I have taken a liking to the immortal flame shields. They're short, they glow, and they've got blades attached to them. I can drink to that(If I drank that is). Alas that'll mean I'm forever locked away from possessing the Twin Addler's axes huh? That's the only axe with a large enough blade for my liking.