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+--- Thread: Metagaming (/showthread.php?tid=5246)
Metagaming - E'irawen - 10-25-2013
Hello all! I wanted to bring up a tiny discussion, only because I was working on some mini plot-esque things that I want to roll out, but I want to sort of recruit people into it by means of the forum.
While I don't really have a problem with this, I am worried about metagaming. I haven't actually seen it myself in this community, but the sheer amount I've dealt with in the past from other RP communities leaves me (hopefully) understandably paranoid.
Part of me wants to say it might be inevitable, really, and that I should just suck it up and try to roll with it. Which is what I've had to do in the past. But then the other part of me is just kind of like "no that is bullshit and I shouldn't have to deal with such behavior."
Suggestions? Advice?
It's not really a *huge* plot or anything. It's more like... making waves and getting people involved, just giving people a sort of small story to roll with should they be feeling a little un-included elsewhere.
RE: Metagaming - K'dath - 10-25-2013
Anything you say or put into the person's mind is going to be there no matter what you do. It's totally possible for people to be metagaming without even thinking about it. If they know the 'twist ending' they're gonna behave in a way that anticipates it. There are somethings you might need to say in advance, you just need to be clever about the way you disclose details, or have an 'inside guy' you trust to relay them.
That's my experience as a Tabletop GM. Writing and rolling out an RP plot is similar on many accords.Â
You just gotta ask yourself, what is the MAXIMUM amount you can disclose to people without giving away your intent. And how much it will really bother you that your players are metagaming douche-wads who read your play books while you're on a beer run.
RE: Metagaming - Zope - 10-25-2013
I think if it's a small event that's just to make some waves and get people into RP and such, you shouldn't have too many issues. If it's not a plot or storyline that encourages badasses or heros, you're less likely to see people overplaying and trying to be awesome via metagaming.Â
At the same time, you should prepare for it anyway, regardless of how amazing a community is or not, because there are people roleplaying on our servers who haven't stumbled upon this site yet, or who haven't really become immersed in our community. There's always a chance a straggler who sees the RP going on in action will want to join in- and that's great! But those people have a 50/50 chance of being awesome or derpy.Â
So, TL;DR, I wouldn't scrap any ideas you have for fear of meta gaming. If you're setting it up via these forums, make sure to list in very bold lettering, no metagaming or BS. This is for fun. That way you have a good chance that most people attending will know already not to pull a metamove and then you just have to deal with outsiders who straggle in. Which can be handled with a simple PM.
Edit: K'dath also makes some very good points.
RE: Metagaming - FreelanceWizard - 10-25-2013
Assuming you're referring to the usual meaning of metagaming (i.e., taking OOC information IC), to a certain degree recruitment into a plot requires a little bit of consensual metagaming. The players getting involved need to know at least a little bit of the plot's concept to decide if they want to consent to it, if it makes sense for their characters, and the like. They need this both OOC for consent and possibly IC to build a hook to get involved. Now, that doesn't mean you need to (or should!) disclose everything, but basics such as the level of risk (you might get hurt feelings, you might get physically hurt, or you might get killed), the general tone (light-hearted, dark, violent, silly), and any story lore that might conflict with someone's view of the world are fairly important.
In my experience, an effective way to get all of that across is to open with an IC post that, like a prelude, lays out the basic parameters and offers some hooks to other players so they can get involved. An OOC snippet or separate OOC post is used for people to coordinate their involvement.
RE: Metagaming - Tobias Nightbringer - 10-25-2013
I think it's been pretty much hit on the nose by K'dath, Zope, and Freelance (at least during the time I started to respond. Very likely others might have put their response in before I finished mine!)
Annnnnyway, also I would like to just toss in the point of 'trust'. If you know the players well enough and trust them, then metagaming should not cause a problem. Not really sure if that makes sense at all or not, but when I used to be heavy into RPing and tabletop, things would be fleshed out a good amount. Even some of the pivotal moments were explained and talked about, but since we all 'understood' each other and communicated to the point that we were very in 'synch', it went off without a hitch.
Now if you don't, theeeeen you might want to start thinking about what to explain/reveal without revealing anything that you don't want to reveal. Like K'dath said!
RE: Metagaming - K'nahli - 10-25-2013
Everyone has said everything that can be said on it already I think. I wouldn't put it beyond even the best of RP'ers to unintentionally tweak even just the tiniest of details of their behaviours to better suit plans that had been disclosed OOCly though, so as K'dath said, try to be smart with the information you disclose. Choose to be vague or use examples that do not match what you have planned but where the answer provided will help you equally etc.
Its not even just about meta'ing either. Sometimes its nice just to leave some surprise and anticipation in the whole thing ^^"
RE: Metagaming - E'irawen - 10-25-2013
I really appreciate all the advice here. I'm going to try my best with this.
RE: Metagaming - Shae'ra - 10-25-2013
As most have already hit it, specially K's post, since people do use information they are given without even realizing it. It happens subconsciously for many, all I can really add to this is a suggestion of the way I do things.
RE: Metagaming - Saefinn - 10-25-2013
I think there will be a certain amount of metagaming to a degree. Often it's quite mild and unnoticeable, for example, encouraging people together to an event, I think the important thing is to for the roleplay to be fluid and not to exploit metagaming and suddenly become OP or for it to break character or ruin the flow of roleplay. For example, I've been meaning to make friends with some other FCs, but such plans have not gone ahead due to IC reasons, like one FC I was planning an alliance with due to similar interests, now my character would rather see the FC leader dead or at the very least, castrated. Sometimes plans OOC don't pan out because our characters are dicks, but makes RP that much more interesting.
Arguably, metagaming is unavoidable, even if it's only small scale. Anything you plan OOCly is in effect metagaming, but I think the important thing is not avoiding it, but to adapt to it. I'm running my Masquerade this weekend, which wasn't born out of an RP, but because I thought it would be a cool idea, however, the event has had to adapt to our RP, our players and the events going on ICly. We've had a lot of discussions ICly over it and recent events ICly could have led to the cancellation of the event, but OOCly and ICly we still wanted to do it (but crewmates had their doubts), so we adapted ICly and in turn, I reckon the RP planned will be better than originally planned. In order to make it run smoothly, I have had to plan the events to come and time them, so that it basically doesn't go tits up, but I've avoided any kind of scripting or deciding what people do, other than of course my orders as captain, so how things pan out will depend on characters ICly to keep fluidity.
Also, coincidences genuinely happen, I've found them in game and made use of them. For example, when somebody stole our treasure, we genuinely bumped into a treasure hunter in a bar (Amaare) and we hired him and it played out nicely. Said money went on a ship. A more recent coincidence, Saefinn knew nothing about the tavern knight events with Echo Knights, but ICly he was around Wanderers Palace, it was unintentional and he ended up at the bar, with the event going down. Okay, I suppose I did time it, but I just made use of the convenience so it was a little more fluid.
When it comes to recruiting ICly, we do find we have to set up a meeting - usually I don't know what's going to happen, I just think of something that's happening ICly, and place my character there and the recruit may think what's relevent. Like last night, for instance, we had a new member, ICly we were trying to get back a missing crew member, which ended up putting me in Ul'dah to speak to somebody who could help. So I set the meeting up in a bar (where Saefinn usually meets this person), my new recruit was in there and I had motivation to recruit her - other stuff was happening ICly, which required their Captain's assistence, so things kind of integrated. In essence, I find it best to make use of surroundings.