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Summons? - Oogre - 12-06-2013
So i wanted to ask the community there overall feeling about how should Summons in Final fantasy be used in FFXIV. With how FFXIV is semi combining all the other Final fantasies into one game, has anyone tried to bring any other summons into an RP?
I want to write up a story using Anima from FFX, but itll have a little bit of a twist to it than the normal story that he has. I think itll be great, but I want to know what other people think before I start writing. Share your thoughts!
RE: Summons? - Maqali Qulaan - 12-06-2013
Spoilers abound here. Ye have been warned!
RE: Summons? - Ildur - 12-06-2013
I would refrain from using any kind of traditional FF summon that isn't in game yet. There are a number of reasons for this. There's no evidence of their existence in the ARR universe. You'd need to make your own "fanon", which will become invalid as soon as Squeenix decides to introduce official lore. If they do that, then whatever you write has a big chance of becoming completely invalid, canon-wise.
If the creature is in game, however, and you can find evidence of their summoning in game then feel free to use it. For example, voidsents and golems are constantly summoned or created by enemies, so we can safely assume that they are things you can summon. From there you can infer other types of creatures that could be summoned, but the key is that such a thing must be grounded in some in-game creature.
What I'd do: First, search for a creature thematically or physically similar to Anima. If there's one, go to step two. Adapt that creature into being Anima-like.
Otherwise, you'll have to adapt Anima into being something else. Not a summon in the sense ARR's summoners use it (so it's not the essence of a Primal), but it could be some other type of creature. Maybe a type of voidsent or a golem.
RE: Summons? - Oogre - 12-07-2013
S'janna -Â I guess I am think more of why do the primals need to be just be of the beast tribes. Like its clearly hinted to the big bad boss of this game will be at the end of the story quests, so does he have a tribe that is under him or does he draw from something else? Im trying to stretch that farther by saying primals or maybe a different type of primals may be able to draw from some other type of emotions/will/desire. Anima could be pain and agony in the world. (making up shit atm) And because of that, this is why it is in so much pain and agony but yet is arguably one of the most powerful summons you can find in any game. But Im probably stretching this.
Ildur - You do have a point, and this is why I wanted to start this thread before going farther into the writing than just the normal omg this would be a great idea stage. I wanted to leave the reader or whoever with something that I have yet to truly see in this final fantasy or many others, madness and fear. I mean there are lots actions that can be considered evil in nature or questionable. But lets be honest, for a world that has been destroyed multiple times, people are really happy and calm! I havent see a character in ff14 who is just lost in madness. They might have done evil things or be controlled by evil beings, but they are not truly overtaken by madness. And no character has been been overwelmed with fear. And I mean true fear by this, not were afraid but still were able to fight on with hope. But these are my thoughts and I wanted to try and add something I feel is missing into this universe.
RE: Summons? - raindrops - 12-07-2013
We have no indication that SPOILER is actually a primal, as far as I'm aware. And 'Summons' taking the form of things that are not that game's version of summons is not unheard of. Airship-Alexander, Sky Fortress Bahamut, Bahamut Chaos etc. We even have an example of this happening in FFXIV with the Sylphs, Carbuncles and Ragnarok. Personally I think it's unlikely that SPOILER is a Primal, if only because it's hinted to be on the same level as Hyadelyn itself.
What we DO know is that the gods are primals, as the Little Ala Mhigo quests address. Primals aren't just of the beast tribes, the spoken races already have primals. They just don't call them that.
RE: Summons? - LandStander - 12-07-2013
RE: Summons? - raindrops - 12-07-2013
But basically all primals seem to be summoned by actual worship - I'm not sure that the Anima idea would work because you seem to suggesting that she'd be going unacknowledged. If primals could operate without worship to them specifically they wouldn't need to temper mortals. Not that it's a bad idea, it just wouldn't work for a primal specifically. Like Ildur said, there's plenty of other things that can be summoned that just aren't primals.
RE: Summons? - Jomoru - 12-07-2013
(12-07-2013, 07:01 AM)raindrops Wrote:
But basically all primals seem to be summoned by actual worship - I'm not sure that the Anima idea would work because you seem to suggesting that she'd be going unacknowledged. If primals could operate without worship to them specifically they wouldn't need to temper mortals. Not that it's a bad idea, it just wouldn't work for a primal specifically. Like Ildur said, there's plenty of other things that can be summoned that just aren't primals.
Where's Odin's beast tribe?
RE: Summons? - LandStander - 12-07-2013
But kids mess around and do all sorts of weird stuff. I don't think we can base that assumption on because some kids tried it. I once told my cousin that the "String People" lived under the oven and they required offerings of Doritos or else they would come out at night and trash the kitchen. When their parents found a ton of ants in the house the gig was up >.>
I don't know much of the lore behind Odin, but I don't think he is a primal. I think Odin falls into the same category as Behemoth, Tonberry King and (from the looks of it) Siren.
RE: Summons? - Jomoru - 12-07-2013
(12-07-2013, 02:59 PM)LandStander Wrote: But kids mess around and do all sorts of weird stuff. I don't think we can base that assumption on because some kids tried it. I once told my cousin that the "String People" lived under the oven and they required offerings of Doritos or else they would come out at night and trash the kitchen. When their parents found a ton of ants in the house the gig was up >.>
I don't know much of the lore behind Odin, but I don't think he is a primal. I think Odin falls into the same category as Behemoth, Tonberry King and (from the looks of it) Siren.
Nope Odin is definately a primal, Quests cover it pretty clearly.
RE: Summons? - LandStander - 12-07-2013
"There are none now alive who know the truth of when or by whom this elder primal was first summoned into the world. Ever vigilant as he sits astride his mighty steed, Sleipnir, it is said that Odin is driven solely by the desire to do battle with worthy foes."
Well there you go
. No one knows. Maybe his worshipers were some now extinct race? Maybe it was the ancient Elezen o.o, seeing as they occupied the Shroud for as long as history dates back. They call in an Elder Primal, the same as Bahamut. I have not seen lore yet that states who summoned Bahamut yet. It does state that the dragons worship him, so that is probably the biggest clue we have, but these two seemed to have been around for so long that no one knows anymore.Â
RE: Summons? - Aleister - 12-07-2013
(12-07-2013, 03:13 PM)LandStander Wrote: "There are none now alive who know the truth of when or by whom this elder primal was first summoned into the world. Ever vigilant as he sits astride his mighty steed, Sleipnir, it is said that Odin is driven solely by the desire to do battle with worthy foes."Perhaps Elder Primal are a completely different set of Primals as well and are capable of doing things that the normal Primals can not? Like once being summoned by however method they can sustain themselves on their own?
Well there you go
They call in an Elder Primal, the same as Bahamut. I have not seen lore yet that states who summoned Bahamut yet. It does state that the dragons worship him, so that is probably the biggest clue we have, but these two seemed to have been around for so long that no one knows anymore.Â
RE: Summons? - Ildur - 12-07-2013
What we know about Elder Primals for sure is that they used to be locked in some kind of prison. The Allagans locked Bahamut in the moon, and someone else locked Odin in a crystal in the Shroud. This and the Odin FATE tells me that Elder Primals can manifest without help, unlike the other Primals.
This doesn't tell us anything about their origins, but I'd wager the "metaphysical" difference between a Primal and an Elder is simply the ammount of aether they were summoned with: an Elder Primal has absorbed the maximum ammount of aether it could, it's very essence becoming a part of the world instead of just existing with no shape in the lifestream.
But that's just speculation on my part. Squee might throw us more bones once they unlock more turns of the Coil.