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+--- Thread: Memory of Carteneau (/showthread.php?tid=6867)
Memory of Carteneau - Koninbeor - 04-07-2014
I have a piece of my character background I'd like to bounce off everyone to get some insight. My character was at the Battle of Carteneau but no one there knew him. He was there posing as his older brother, wearing his armor and wielding his weapons. The older brother died shortly before Carteneau. Since people don't remember the identities of the Warriors of Light, my character would have faded from their memories. However, what about his brother? I know that fallen warriors would be remembered as the fog only applies to those who took place in the time jump. Since the older brother actually died before the battle but his name was being used by someone who was in the time jump, would he be remembered as being at the battle or would his friends and allies recognize him as someone who never made it to Carteneau?
RE: Memory of Carteneau - Avalt Laguz - 04-07-2014
(04-07-2014, 01:45 PM)Koninbeor Wrote: I have a piece of my character background I'd like to bounce off everyone to get some insight. My character was at the Battle of Carteneau but no one there knew him. He was there posing as his older brother, wearing his armor and wielding his weapons. The older brother died shortly before Carteneau. Since people don't remember the identities of the Warriors of Light, my character would have faded from their memories. However, what about his brother? I know that fallen warriors would be remembered as the fog only applies to those who took place in the time jump. Since the older brother actually died before the battle but his name was being used by someone who was in the time jump, would he be remembered as being at the battle or would his friends and allies recognize him as someone who never made it to Carteneau?
From my personal understanding, the warriors who people cannot remember are any who were teleported away by Luisoix's time rift spell. If he retreated with the Eorzean Forces when Bahamut broke free of Dalamud then it is likely he would be remembered...if this helps I'm not sure but that's what Minfillia's explanation means.
RE: Memory of Carteneau - FreelanceWizard - 04-07-2014
From a purely narrative standpoint, since your character was caught in the time warp, it seems to me that the memories would fade in such a way that no one would have any way to reliably connect your character to Carteneau. So, those who thought he was his brother would have the memories of the brother fade, and those who knew he was there would have memories of him fade. My logic is that this is the only way to guarantee the truthfulness of the statements made about the Warriors of Light in game (i.e., that no one remembers them).
There's some interesting questions this sort of story raises from a magic theory standpoint, if you want to take a more "weird" approach to it. Issues of whether the spell affects people based on identity or some sort of essential essence, whether it can impact memories of the dead, and the like all give you some ways to play with the storyline while still largely keeping to lore (since they'd just muck up people's memories even more
).
RE: Memory of Carteneau - Koninbeor - 04-07-2014
I agree with what would happen to the character. Like any other character, he would be obscured from memory. My biggest though was of his brother. Obviously, his brother would not be forgotten because he wasn't part of the time jump. What got me wondering was whether or not the dead brother would be associated with Carteneau.
Obviously, the older brother wasn't there because he was already dead. So what I was curious about was if people would forget that the younger brother pretended to be the older brother or not. The younger brother is easy. I just didn't know if people would think that the older brother actually died at Carteneau since his real death wasn't common knowledge, or if they'd rightfully think that he never actually showed up for the battle. The whole magical forgetfulness thing does create some interesting issues.
RE: Memory of Carteneau - Kage - 04-07-2014
I always thought that the whole thing about forgetting the Warriors sent forward by Luisoix is that people couldn't recollect specific details.
They might be remembered as having family, part of their Job, etc. Things like their faces or their names no.
So I would think that it would be fine.
RE: Memory of Carteneau - Koninbeor - 04-07-2014
(04-07-2014, 05:01 PM)ExKage Wrote: I always thought that the whole thing about forgetting the Warriors sent forward by Luisoix is that people couldn't recollect specific details.
They might be remembered as having family, part of their Job, etc. Things like their faces or their names no.
So I would think that it would be fine.
I'm not worried about the concept being solid. Essentially, I'm trying to figure out how the dead brother can be used as a plot hook. Would people think he was at the battle since his name was being used or would people think he never showed up since his name was used by a man who was sent into the future? No one remembers the actual character because no one who knew him was at the battle, and those who were at the battle would have thought he was another man who is currently dead.
RE: Memory of Carteneau - ArmachiA - 04-07-2014
From what I'm getting, if your brother didn't time skip, then your brother is remembered. Dead or alive. There are probably a lot of people who were at Carteneau and didn't get skipped ahead for reasons and obviously Eorzea remembers the event happened so not everyone could have been skipped ahead.
Would they forget the younger brother being the older brother? Probably. The younger brother would be wiped from most memory. The confusion would come from them thinking the older brother was at Carteneau but they have no idea why they think that, they just do.
RE: Memory of Carteneau - Koninbeor - 04-07-2014
(04-07-2014, 07:48 PM)ArmachiA Wrote: The confusion would come from them thinking the older brother was at Carteneau but they have no idea why they think that, they just do.
This is exactly what I mean. The older brother isn't forgotten, I'm just not certain about how he's remembered. The older brother would actually have friends who think he has been jumped through time with them (at least for a little while), but they are wrong. They have no way of knowing that he's been dead since before the battle. That part is easy. The younger brother has no identity.
The older brother can't be a Warrior of Light, and any investigation will quickly reveal that fact. People remember every facet of him, so he isn't part of the time jump. And I think I've inadvertently answered my own question by trying to reason out this response.
I've been wondering enough how the world as a whole would look at the older brother's place or absence in the battle that I've lost site of how the actual plot hook would work anyway. His presence at Carteneau is irrelevant to anyone who hasn't been skipped through time because they'll either know him by his deeds before the battle or they'll never have heard of him. Any actual Warriors of Light who are under the impression that he was present likely think that he's died since the younger brother hasn't tried to assume the dead brother's identity since returning. Investigating the older brother would eventually reveal that he has not, in fact, been skipped through time, making the time of his death a moot point. And any inconsistencies on whether or not he has participated in the battle could just make for interesting RP anyway.
Thanks for your insight on this issue, everyone. I was just trying to make sure to fill in any holes in the story, but it turns out that a small hole could actually serve an in game purpose anyway.
RE: Memory of Carteneau - Blue - 04-09-2014
Yes, those who are "forgotten" are only those who traveled forward in time.
The exception for them is that those who possess the Echo (such as Minfilia, and whoever other RPing possessing it) will remember them even if they time-jumped. I have a character who lost his brother at Cartenau (his brother was sent forward in time), but possesses the Echo, so still remembers his name and face. The rest of the family though won't, as Vincent is the only one in the family to have the Echo.
RE: Memory of Carteneau - Koninbeor - 04-09-2014
Just to clarify this, I have never had any question of who is and isn't forgotten. The only reason there was any question as to whether or not the dead brother would be remembered as having been at the battle is because a person using his name has been time jumped. This is the only reason I wondered.
He was not there but his name was. Clearly, he will be remembered. I was only curious for the purposes of using the older brother as a plot hook for PCs who are from Ul'dah. Whether or not they would have the erroneous belief that he had fought in Carteneau was the only question.