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+--- Thread: Arcanist Lore/Character Input! (/showthread.php?tid=6884)
Arcanist Lore/Character Input! - Verrier - 04-08-2014
Hi guys! I've been doing a bit of research (a whole bunch of googling, both on this site and others) and I'm wanting to make certain that I didn't overstep or miss things in working with Z'tajha the way I've laid things out! Better to make sure now than to get her too involved in story to undo mistakes.
The way I've written her, she's family-taught and is only just starting to figure out how to use magic, much the way low-level characters tend to be in gameplay as well! I don't want her to become any sort of powerful spellcaster in the future, only to have her carbuncle and access to some of the more minor spells that Arcanists typically use.
My concerns are:
1) Is nineteen a reasonable age for a character to be able to use these skills? I tend to err on the side of caution, if that helps any; she's very likely to fail or miscast/mess up her understanding of what she reads due to her inexperience.
2) Carbuncle is summoned via a crystal, from my understanding - how similar is this to primals, and how socially accepted is it? Is a carbuncle a kind of minor primal and how does that fiddle with lore? (And what sort of effects, if any, do they have upon the person summoning?
3) Does it make sense that this could be taught to someone outside of the Arcanist Guild, such as by family? I'd wanted to go with the notion that her mother taught her how to use her abilities.
I've also wanted to leave open in years future for her to eventually have the choice (dependant on what happens in the land of RP and how those interactions change her views) to become a white mage sort, by giving her the "I can kind of use aether to heal a cut but I don't share that with anyone" sort of background.Â
Her family made her aware of history ages-past regarding the abuse that the white mages were involved with and so I've been keeping that in mind, in that it might be viewed negatively and so it isn't anything she's delved into out of fear of repercussions for it.Â
Does all of this seem okay, or are aspects of it sketchy/questionable/over the top? Any input would be great, and I'm really sorry if I've missed something obvious!
RE: Arcanist Lore/Character Input! - FreelanceWizard - 04-08-2014
(04-08-2014, 02:55 PM)Verrier Wrote: 1) Is nineteen a reasonable age for a character to be able to use these skills? I tend to err on the side of caution, if that helps any; she's very likely to fail or miscast/mess up her understanding of what she reads due to her inexperience.
I don't see why not. Adventurers seem to be relatively young, as is typical in most fantasy settings. As long as the character has reached majority and has a narrative reason for her expertise, 19 seems totally fine.
(04-08-2014, 02:55 PM)Verrier Wrote: 2) Carbuncle is summoned via a crystal, from my understanding - how similar is this to primals, and how socially accepted is it? Is a carbuncle a kind of minor primal and how does that fiddle with lore? (And what sort of effects, if any, do they have upon the person summoning?
The carbuncle isn't a Primal -- in fact, technically speaking, neither are the Egi of the Summoner. In fact, several "summoned creatures" (Good King Moggle Mog, Siren, etc.) aren't Primals, a point that's made in the 2.1 main scenario quest and by dev post in the case of Siren. The game isn't yet entirely clear on what exactly a Primal is compared to these other things; to me, it seems "Primal" is used to mean powerful creatures summoned by beast tribes with the ability to Temper. The Arcanist, Summoner, and Scholar summons don't have either of those qualities.
In terms of the social acceptability of summons, Arcanists are well-respected members of Lominsan society, so carbuncles wouldn't be seen as weird or disturbing. Summoners use a newly rediscovered art and do things that are fairly crazy (fighting Primals), so the sheer rarity of them and their egi would give some pause -- but this isn't a situation like Warlocks in WoW.
(04-08-2014, 02:55 PM)Verrier Wrote: 3) Does it make sense that this could be taught to someone outside of the Arcanist Guild, such as by family? I'd wanted to go with the notion that her mother taught her how to use her abilities.
Arcanima isn't especially well known outside of Limsa Lominsa, but if you can come up with narrative justification for it, it seems reasonable. It's not as if there aren't arcanists practicing out in the world that might spread their knowledge.
RE: Arcanist Lore/Character Input! - Teryaani - 04-08-2014
(04-08-2014, 04:46 PM)FreelanceWizard Wrote: The carbuncle isn't a Primal -- in fact, technically speaking, neither are the Egi of the Summoner. In fact, several "summoned creatures" (Good King Moggle Mog, Siren, etc.) aren't Primals, a point that's made in the 2.1 main scenario quest and by dev post in the case of Siren. The game isn't yet entirely clear on what exactly a Primal is compared to these other things; to me, it seems "Primal" is used to mean powerful creatures summoned by beast tribes with the ability to Temper. The Arcanist, Summoner, and Scholar summons don't have either of those qualities.
In terms of the social acceptability of summons, Arcanists are well-respected members of Lominsan society, so carbuncles wouldn't be seen as weird or disturbing. Summoners use a newly rediscovered art and do things that are fairly crazy (fighting Primals), so the sheer rarity of them and their egi would give some pause -- but this isn't a situation like Warlocks in WoW.
I'm not entirely with you on your last point. While they probably wouldn't inspire the same level of revulsion in most people that say a voidlord would, there are plenty of people that would probably take issue with a small sized titan roaming around.
Sure, the smaller size helps, but have you seen Ifrit-Egi? That thing is menacing.
RE: Arcanist Lore/Character Input! - FreelanceWizard - 04-08-2014
(04-08-2014, 05:23 PM)Teryaani Wrote: I'm not entirely with you on your last point. While they probably wouldn't inspire the same level of revulsion in most people that say a voidlord would, there are plenty of people that would probably take issue with a small sized titan roaming around.
Sure, the smaller size helps, but have you seen Ifrit-Egi? That thing is menacing.
Oh, undoubtedly. The Egi would certainly give people pause, and I don't doubt a fair number of people might react poorly to one. There's a reason why my character doesn't keep an Egi out in cities other than Revenant's Toll (due to its high adventurer population).
EDIT: That said, from a lore standpoint, Warlocks in WoW are doing something that has, in a documented way, demonstrably caused mass death and destruction across multiple worlds and is known to corrupt its wielders. By contrast, XIV's Summoners are practicing an Allagan art that is nothing of the sort. While that probably doesn't make much difference to the Average Joe who sees some robed dude walking around with a floating monster of fiery claws behind him, it would mean something to the guilds, adventurers, and other "in the know" sorts.
RE: Arcanist Lore/Character Input! - Verrier - 04-08-2014
Thank you guys for your responses! Unfortunately I haven't actually had a chance to delve much into the game outside of levelling to about level 12 so far, so my questions are probably a bit ignorant. (Though now I really want to see more of the quests even more than I had already wanted to
 )Assuming I'm not going with the terrifying-sounding sort such as Ifrit, it sounds like the Carbuncle is a fairly common occurrence, then? That helps quite a bit, thank you.
 (And how did you know that I'd been thinking Warlock in WoW before? Haha, that's very much where my brain went at first, the more I read about the Primals.)Limsa Lominsia seems to be quite a long-standing location - when I did some poking around, there was a reference to a 77th Admiral in a quote, which implied to me that it's likely decades - if not centuries? - old, dependant on how long each Admiral holds office. The age of the Arcanist's Guild, however, wasn't something I could find. (Actually, it seemed kind of hard to find much info on that, outside of quest text here and there, but I might have been looking up the wrong stuff at the wrong locations.)
My guess was that if someone had previously been a member of the Arcanist's Guild, or under their tutelage, that they would be able to pass on what they'd learned to a child or apprentice of sorts, as you'd described! So hopefully that's enough of a justification; her entire tribe was based around La Noscea with interaction and many visits to Limsa Lominsia, so I'd hoped that'd seemed reasonable.Â
RE: Arcanist Lore/Character Input! - Teryaani - 04-08-2014
I'm not entirely up on all the lore, but given that the arcanists seem to act almost as customs officials, the carbuncles should be seen pretty regularly. Plus they are adorable and that goes a long way.
I agree with FreelanceWizard, if you can make a backstory that sounds reasonable, go for it!
As for the WoW comparison, it's a pretty natural comparison to make
. The arcanist is, mechanically, an affliction warlock. It's just missing the Dr.Evil/MUHAHAHAHAHA baggage that goes along with it. Which I'm really really grateful for. Â
RE: Arcanist Lore/Character Input! - Verrier - 04-08-2014
(04-08-2014, 06:02 PM)Teryaani Wrote: I'm not entirely up on all the lore, but given that the arcanists seem to act almost as customs officials, the carbuncles should be seen pretty regularly. Plus they are adorable and that goes a long way.
I agree with FreelanceWizard, if you can make a backstory that sounds reasonable, go for it!
As for the WoW comparison, it's a pretty natural comparison to make
Oh geez, this, so much, with the muahahahaha baggage. It could be tough with warlocks and roleplay, considering that a lot of people liked to metagame knowledge of warlocks even if the character wasn't really into all the demonology stuff!
I was really concerned when I saw the parallels at first, in case that sort of thing came up in-game, as I'm a lot more shaky with lore in FFXIV being new than I was in WoW, and it would have been easiest to avoid those connotations when I wasn't certain what to expect.
This has helped clear things up so much.
 Besides, who doesn't want an adorable carbuncle? They were pretty much the cutest summons in FFVIII, and it seems like they've only gotten cuter!
![[Image: 45140d1374705667-carbuncle1.jpg.html]](http://home.eyesonff.com/content/attachments/45140d1374705667-carbuncle1.jpg.html)
(I almost feel bad OOC making mine fight monsters, it looks like it could get eaten by the first beast to cross its path.)
RE: Arcanist Lore/Character Input! - Sounsyy - 04-08-2014
(04-08-2014, 04:46 PM)FreelanceWizard Wrote: The carbuncle isn't a Primal -- in fact, technically speaking, neither are the Egi of the Summoner. In fact, several "summoned creatures" (Good King Moggle Mog, Siren, etc.) aren't Primals, a point that's made in the 2.1 main scenario quest and by dev post in the case of Siren. The game isn't yet entirely clear on what exactly a Primal is compared to these other things; to me, it seems "Primal" is used to mean powerful creatures summoned by beast tribes with the ability to Temper. The Arcanist, Summoner, and Scholar summons don't have either of those qualities.
So there's a bit of lore on Primals from 1.0. There are six true "Primals" in total: Ifrit, Garuda, Titan, Leviathan, Ramuh, and Shiva. Each Primal corresponds to an element, which corresponds to a calamitous event in history. Six Primals, six Astral/Umbral Eras. Each element also corresponds to two of the Twelve, which are credited with the creation of the Primals. When the Twelve began to feud amongst themselves, they created the Primals to fight for them. In turn, the Primals are believed to have created the Beastmen. The two "Elder Primals," Bahamut and Odin, represent Astral and Umbral elements. Unknown which Elder represents which element. Other than the fact that both Elder Primals have been imprisoned for eons and were both released circa the latest Calamity, not much else is known about them.
(04-08-2014, 05:53 PM)Verrier Wrote: Limsa Lominsia seems to be quite a long-standing location - when I did some poking around, there was a reference to a 77th Admiral in a quote, which implied to me that it's likely decades - if not centuries? - old, dependant on how long each Admiral holds office. The age of the Arcanist's Guild, however, wasn't something I could find. (Actually, it seemed kind of hard to find much info on that, outside of quest text here and there, but I might have been looking up the wrong stuff at the wrong locations.)
Limsa Lominsa was founded roughly 700 years ago. The Galadeon was the sole surviving vessel of a proud navy. The Galadeon fled the battlefield and was caught in a terrible storm. The story goes that Llymlaen guided the Galadeon through the storm, where they were wrecked upon the rocks at Vylbrand. Limsa Lominsa was founded on site from the carcass of that vessel. For a long time, Limsa was just a simple fishing village, but eventually it grew and became the center of international trade.
As for the Arcanist's Guild, a quick chat with the NPCs there tells us that the Arcanist's Guild was founded when Merlwyb Bloefhiswyn claimed her admiralcy. I'm not sure if we are ever given an exact date as to when Merlwyb became admiral. We are shown the climatic ending of her Trident against Captain Hyllfyr in the 1.0 quest "Shot Through the Heart" but that is via Echo. Anyone got a date for Merlwyb's ascension?
RE: Arcanist Lore/Character Input! - Entity - 04-10-2014
I'm not as knowledgeable about the lore as I COULD be when it comes to the magic classes and jobs, but I've been trying to be careful to keep myself from developing into a concept that might possibly break it.
Before Emiiresa journeyed to Gridania (the beginning of the game), she did nothing but study books and grimoires on magic and arcanima in general, be it how it was used, how it was studied, what it could be used for, etc. However her knowledge of the magic was not the only thing going for her. Her father was a "Sage" of sorts, one who mastered all magic, a gift of mastery that passed down to Emiiresa as well. Basically she was and still is capable of "complete magic mastery," or able to learn all the arcs of magic and effectively use all of them, although she has yet to obtain it due to some personal difficulties. She self-taught herself by reading books on magic and thus, knew a great deal of its workings and how it can be used, but she never actually implemented it until she actually traveled to Gridania, where the first thing she picked up was conjury. Her ability to use it effortlessly stems mainly from her father's side, which is composed of those who delved into the art as well as its science and sciences in general (i.e. Alchemy). That said, her father's generation have died early deaths partly because of the constant use of many different magics putting a strain on their bodies, and Emiiresa is no exception.
To fast forward, because of her priority to ensure there are no casualties amongst her companions, she has overused her White Magic excessively to the point where she has almost lost vision in one eye, and so she is always seen wearing glasses [IC]. She can still use it, but not as much as she used to, and thus she often depends on the teachings of the Scholar for most of her healing, an art which I OOCly believe is easier to handle and control, especially since you have a little fairy helping you out. ICly, she finds herself enjoying the art of the Scholar much more because there are measures and geometries that are drawn out in order to make proper calculations as to how a Scholar's skills should be handled. Even though Emiiresa's family is known for being able to master all magic, each of them specialize more in a specific kind out of all of them, based on the color of their eyes. Emiiresa's eyes are green and light blue, so she specializes in conjury and wind. She now only taps into her skills as a White Mage in times of great danger when nothing lesser than her best is required for a situation.
I believe I've said this before in another post, but I see White Magic and Arcanima as talent and application of knowledge, respectively. I feel as though White Magic/Conjury is something that comes from inside you, and delves more on that natural and using the world around you to help you perform powerful spells, much like Thaumaturgy. Arcanists/Scholars on the other hand, I believe it's more of being able to comprehend the tactics that you learn and thus use them to SHAPE the aether and magic around you into something you can use to assist those around you. I exempt Summoner from this because I feel as though the egi's are more of a "blood pact/soul binding/commitment" sort of thing to me, rather than tough calculation and power from the inside. She even has a slight personality shift when changing her jobs. As a White Mage/Conjurer she is found to be more caring but sort of has that "tough love" persona about herself. As an Arcanist/Scholar, she is much more focused but also much more strict and unforgiving, as she loathes mistakes in such a job as Scholar.
But yeah, to sum up everything, I kinda feel like White Magic is something that requires more talent to really be able to put to use, while Arcanima is something that must be practiced more than just having a talent.