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+--- Thread: Gender roles (/showthread.php?tid=7486)
RE: Gender roles - Naunet - 07-24-2014
(07-24-2014, 12:05 PM)allgivenover Wrote: I think "fanservice tribe" is a little heavy handed in criticism
I dunno. It's a tribe of mostly cat girls (marketed to a Japanese audience, no less) dressed in the skimpiest clothing the game has, complete with a not-so-hidden oasis where nearly naked ladies are bathing and flirt with you.
It's not a criticism of Seekers in general. But if the U tribe is not fanservice, then I don't know what is.
RE: Gender roles - McBeefâ„¢ - 07-24-2014
(07-24-2014, 12:17 PM)Naunet Wrote:(07-24-2014, 12:05 PM)allgivenover Wrote: I think "fanservice tribe" is a little heavy handed in criticism
I dunno. It's a tribe of mostly cat girls (marketed to a Japanese audience, no less) dressed in the skimpiest clothing the game has, complete with a not-so-hidden oasis where nearly naked ladies are bathing and flirt with you.
It's not a criticism of Seekers in general. But if the U tribe is not fanservice, then I don't know what is.
Dang. Real life hunter gatherer tribes wear even less clothes then that. Glad they're going to such work to live a life of fanservice for us all.
They are hunter gatherers, in the desert. I'm not sure what you'd expect them to wear. If you look at what African tribespeople wear it's in the same ballpark. I guess they could be wearing burkhas or something.
RE: Gender roles - allgivenover - 07-24-2014
I don't disagree, but calling it a fanservice race is kind of discarding all the good potential in my opinion.
Personally I have always been attached to the idea of matriarchies as extremely fascinating because it's something that's so absent from life here on Earth, yet no one would call that niche appeal fanservice. It's only labeled so if enough people are disgusted/putt-off by it as is the case with Seekers.
Everything you listed in support of labeling it fanservice is not inherently bad, it only becomes so when you place it next to the context that someone might be getting off to it in a way that disgusts you.
RE: Gender roles - Naunet - 07-24-2014
(07-24-2014, 12:25 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote: Dang. Real life hunter gatherer tribes wear even less clothes then that. Glad they're going to such work to live a life of fanservice for us all.
They are hunter gatherers, in the desert. I'm not sure what you'd expect them to wear. If you look at what African tribespeople wear it's in the same ballpark. I guess they could be wearing burkhas or something.
Go look at the melanin production of African tribespeople and compare it to that of the U tribe. When you're lighter skinned, the key is to cover with lightweight and light colored fabrics, or you're gonna get burned and probably die of heatstroke. :p
@allgivenover: How many times do I have to say it's a criticism of the U tribe and not Seekers in general? Heck, I roleplay a Seeker and help manage a fan-made Seeker tribe. I obviously have nothing against their lore. xD But you're being a bit silly trying to claim that nearly naked, bathing cat girls in a Japanese game weren't intended as fan service.
RE: Gender roles - McBeefâ„¢ - 07-24-2014
Also it needs to be considered that they live in quite possibly the most dangerous area of any settlement. They are right next door to the Amaj, in Ifrit's stomping ground, and have no serious walls or defenses. It's also a giant desert full of sandworms and undead. Yet, they seem to be doing alright, and the village never seems like it's in peril. This is with a 1 to 10 gender ration.
So regardless of what they wear, or how much they like to flirt with PC's, clearly they are martial enough to survive there. The adopted sister of ash in the Beast tribe quests is also quite competent, despite her silly outfit, and she's not represented as being an anomaly. An entire tribe of women like that is nothing to fuck with, clothes aside.
RE: Gender roles - Naunet - 07-24-2014
(07-24-2014, 12:40 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote: Yet, they seem to be doing alright, and the village never seems like it's in peril.
Did you not do the Amalj'aa dailies? The settlement is raided regularly, and there are dailies where you have to kill tempered...
I'm not sure why you're trying to defend the U tribe's strength or whatever. That's not something I commented on. I was simply pointing out the obvious that a lot aspects of the Forgotten Springs were clearly made with cat girl fan service in mind.
RE: Gender roles - Berrod Armstrong - 07-24-2014
(07-24-2014, 12:39 PM)Naunet Wrote: Go look at the melanin production of African tribespeople and compare it to that of the U tribe. When you're lighter skinned, the key is to cover with lightweight and light colored fabrics, or you're gonna get burned and probably die of heatstroke. :p Not too relevant to the main argument, but there are dark-skinned seekers in the game. I'm not quite sure if the U tribe has any from the top of my head.
I'd probably call the highlander males of the Ala Mhigan resistance fanservice as well, by what you seem to define it as. It's not just the catgirls!Â
[sub]se is liberal with the manflesh as well[/sub]
RE: Gender roles - allgivenover - 07-24-2014
(07-24-2014, 12:39 PM)Naunet Wrote: xD But you're being a bit silly trying to claim that nearly naked, bathing cat girls in a Japanese game weren't intended as fan service.
That's not what I'm saying.
What I'm saying is that the fanservice is not the only characteristic of the tribe and that there's plenty of good lore there. It's your personal disgust that pushes you to label it a "fanservice tribe" when there's a lot of interesting stuff going on aside from what some guy playing the game may or may not be getting off too.
RE: Gender roles - Naunet - 07-24-2014
Of course there is. The jest was that SE decided to make an exception to their stated rule and put males in charge of a settlement full of fan service. It amused me.
RE: Gender roles - allgivenover - 07-24-2014
That's the other thing, we don't know if it's an exemption or if there was a mistake in the Miqo'te naming convention post on the lore forum  or if they changed design direction midway through and didn't communicate it where it needed to go.
The two sources directly conflict and personally I place more validity on the in game portrayal that features fleshed out characters and events that are tied to the main scenario plot than I do a blurb of translated text from a community rep on a topic that is way, way down the ladder of importance for the vast majority of players.
RE: Gender roles - Naunet - 07-24-2014
That's your right. I'll continue using both the U tribe and the lore post as valid representations of possible Seeker tribe organizations.
RE: Gender roles - Aerghwab - 07-24-2014
(07-24-2014, 12:55 PM)Naunet Wrote: Of course there is. The jest was that SE decided to make an exception to their stated rule and put males in charge of a settlement full of fan service. It amused me.An exception to what stated rule, though? Lore states pretty explicitly that Keepers, not Seekers, are 'highly matriarchal.' The way this is stated (here)Â as one of the defining traits of Keeper culture makes it obvious (to me) that Seekers tend toward the opposite. What it does say is:Â "Nunh status does not equate to leadership within a tribe, and in fact, very few nunh ever become leaders." That doesn't imply in any way, shape, or form that it's common for Seeker females to lead in the way Keeper matriarchs do. What it does seem to suggest is that U'whatshisname and his tribe in Forgotten Springs are one of the few with a Nunh acting as leader.
RE: Gender roles - Naunet - 07-24-2014
I'm not really sure I understand what point you're trying to make. SE says nunhs aren't usually leaders. The U tribe is a clear exception to that. Uhm...?
RE: Gender roles - Berrod Armstrong - 07-24-2014
(07-24-2014, 01:32 PM)Naunet Wrote: I'm not really sure I understand what point you're trying to make. SE says nunhs aren't usually leaders. The U tribe is a clear exception to that. Uhm...?Actually, the U tribe isn't an exception to that at all. The statement says that nunh's aren't usually leaders. The U tribe is unusual, but that falls within the statement! It's not exceptional in the slightest! If it was stated that nunhs are never leaders, however, then it would be an exception.
*Kicks the English language*
RE: Gender roles - McBeefâ„¢ - 07-24-2014
It makes sense he's the leader, even if it's rare. Dude went and killed a primal, they live right next to one. Pretty reasonably the put the only person who actually has some experience in the matter in charge.