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+--- Thread: The three nations are at war, who wins? (/showthread.php?tid=8102)
The three nations are at war, who wins? - Kage - 08-28-2014
I saw this discussion on reddit and I'd love to see what the RP community thinks. :3
http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/2eto9t/the_three_nations_go_into_all_out_war_with_each/
RE: The three nations are at war, who wins? - TheLastCandle - 08-28-2014
The Empire.
Divided we fall.
RE: The three nations are at war, who wins? - Melkire - 08-28-2014
I find it laughable that the top comment is "No one wins, but Ul'dah probably loses." Objectively speaking, I'd say Gridania probably loses. Second-smallest population, if I'm not mistaken (if it's third, they're even worse off), and their force of lancers, archers and conjurers are, as stated in the reddit thread, best suited to a defensive action (likewise for the Elementals). If you're always on the defensive and on the backfoot... you're eventually going to lose, even if you outlast a thousand sieges.Â
And the whole "Limsa can blockade the mainland nations" idea is also laughable given that the only source of oversea shipping is Limsa by de facto position as dominant force on Vylbrand. I'm sorry, what's that? We're not getting supplies from Vylbrand anymore? Oh well, we'll take the hits to prices and go looking on the mainland for substitute products.
Objectively speaking, Limsa probably has the best chance at coming out on top, but only due to political instability within the Syndicate and due to the nature of the Gridanian forces.
Twelve forbid what's left of the Syndicate bands together after the cowards have cut and run; Ul'dah would tear the other two nations to shreds.
EDIT: If we're throwing Ishgard and the Garlean Empire into it... Ishgard may have the martial clout to win through. The Empire stands no real chance if the Alliance comes together to oppose it (Warriors of Light were only instrumental in countering the Ascian and Allagan pieces on the board; several manned castrums still stand after the latest MSQs).
EDIT 2: If Balmung Frontlines is any indication, Maelstrom wins. Almost Every. Gods. Damned. Time. Occasional victory to the Adders.
RE: The three nations are at war, who wins? - Warren Castille - 08-28-2014
It would come down to who's invading who. Limsa's an island, and they have a dominant naval force. Taking the fight to them would be a fool's errand. Similarly, any invading force trying to march into the Shroud is going to run into some pretty spectacular issues. Ul'dah's really the only one without a real "defense" unless you count being surrounded by cliffs and desert, which would make it easy to see oncoming forces and potentially wear out those not used to the climate.
Politically it would be interesting. I could see the Syndicate using all of this turmoil to establish martial order over the Sultana since she'd likely be seeking a peaceable solution and war is always best for business.
Oh, I just realized: Isn't Cid's main research in Ul'dah? Can we count him as an asset? Because hooboy, that's a big one.
Quick, someone hash out a map and some quick and dirty rules for Risk: Eorzea.
RE: The three nations are at war, who wins? - Aya - 08-28-2014
It doesn't seem to me like any of them could beat another... even two against one it seems unlikely. Ul'dahn forces in a hostile Shroud? Sailors trying to besiege a desert fortress? Woodsmen trying to attack an island protected by the only navy in the land?
I don't see this working for anyone :-]
Border skirmishes are a lot more likely, and there it's anyone's game I'd imagine.
RE: The three nations are at war, who wins? - Crisiet - 08-28-2014
(08-28-2014, 12:45 PM)TheLastCandle Wrote: The Empire.
^ This.
RE: The three nations are at war, who wins? - Melkire - 08-28-2014
(08-28-2014, 01:03 PM)Warren Castille Wrote: It would come down to who's invading who. Limsa's an island, and they have a dominant naval force. Taking the fight to them would be a fool's errand. Similarly, any invading force trying to march into the Shroud is going to run into some pretty spectacular issues. Ul'dah's really the only one without a real "defense" unless you count being surrounded by cliffs and desert, which would make it easy to see oncoming forces and potentially wear out those not used to the climate.
Politically it would be interesting. I could see the Syndicate using all of this turmoil to establish martial order over the Sultana since she'd likely be seeking a peaceable solution and war is always best for business.
Oh, I just realized: Isn't Cid's main research in Ul'dah? Can we count him as an asset? Because hooboy, that's a big one.
Quick, someone hash out a map and some quick and dirty rules for Risk: Eorzea.
Garlond Ironworks? I thought he relocated his business to Revenant's Toll. His apprentices were there, last I saw them (haven't started 2.3 MSQ content yet).
Here's Risk: Eorzea for you in a nutshell: Limsa is Australia.
RE: The three nations are at war, who wins? - Crisiet - 08-28-2014
Cid relocated to Mor Dhona, yeah.Â
Honestly, were it just the three nations, Limsa Lominsa would win purely because they'd be so damned difficult to launch an offensive against.
Really though, the empire would just come back and roflstomp all over them once the conflict had weakened them enough.
RE: The three nations are at war, who wins? - Unnamed Mercenary - 08-28-2014
(08-28-2014, 01:15 PM)Crisiet Wrote: Cid relocated to Mor Dhona, yeah.Â
Honestly, were it just the three nations, Limsa Lominsa would win purely because they'd be so damned difficult to launch an offensive against.
Really though, the empire would just come back and roflstomp all over them once the conflict had weakened them enough.
That's how the empire got Ala Mhigo! (Besides the Ala Mhigan king being a powerhungry monster, iirc). Some nice convincing of "don't you want to stop fighting" adding to "look at our military!" seemed to work well.
RE: The three nations are at war, who wins? - Warren Castille - 08-28-2014
I can see it now.
One thousand years after declaring war on one another, the three nations sit idly by waiting for the first casualty. Ul'dah has reinforced its walls waiting for invasion, Limsa's navy has been sitting with cannons pointed waiting for a force to move, and the Gridanians are sipping tea with the elementals.
War is hell.
RE: The three nations are at war, who wins? - Melkire - 08-28-2014
On that note, Ul'dah's greatest weakness isn't its divided government.
It's the fact that the closest source of fresh water (the river) is outside the city walls and does not at any point run through the city itself. The Jewel of the Desert is, ironically, the most vulnerable to siege. That said, with as large a standing military force as the Flames are supposed to be, I don't know how either of the other two Eorzean city-states would manage that.
The Empire probably could, if they devoted enough manpower to the task.
...neither Limsa nor Gridania has this sort of strategic liability.
RE: The three nations are at war, who wins? - Unnamed Mercenary - 08-28-2014
(08-28-2014, 01:19 PM)Warren Castille Wrote: I can see it now.
One thousand years after declaring war on one another, the three nations sit idly by waiting for the first casualty. Ul'dah has reinforced its walls waiting for invasion, Limsa's navy has been sitting with cannons pointed waiting for a force to move, and the Gridanians are sipping tea with the elementals.
War is hell.
...Can I get tea time with the Elementals. They seem a friendly sort when their trees aren't being burned down by little kids.
RE: The three nations are at war, who wins? - McBeefâ„¢ - 08-28-2014
I agree with Aya, no side has the resources to actually win.
Everyone lacks the ability to actually take a great land power like Ul'dah. Everyone lacks the ability to somehow counter the elementals, and everyone lacks the ability to mount a naval operation against Limsa.
I think Ul'dah has the highest chance of eventually winning due to it's high (and increasing) modernization. They have trains, cerulean mines, mass production, and the money to fund mercenaries.
Like I said earlier though, it would likely just be skirmishing that would end in a treaty favorable to one side or the other. In other words, exactly what is happening on the Cartenau flats.
RE: The three nations are at war, who wins? - Dogberry - 08-28-2014
Historically, a naval based force will always beat a land based force.
However, I wouldn't count Gridania out. They have an entire forest they can use that they know better than anyone else, and can wage guerilla warfare on anyone foolish enough to invade. If Gridania is smart, and they are, they'll let The Shroud do most of their fighting for them.
RE: The three nations are at war, who wins? - Crisiet - 08-28-2014
(08-28-2014, 01:28 PM)Dogberry Wrote: Historically, a naval based force will always beat a land based force.
However, I wouldn't count Gridania out. They have an entire forest they can use that they know better than anyone else, and can wage guerilla warfare on anyone foolish enough to invade. If Gridania is smart, and they are, they'll let The Shroud do most of their fighting for them.
Literally. Them elementals are powerful, yo.