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+--- Thread: Lalafell, strength and you! Light up the Sounsyy Signal. (/showthread.php?tid=8559)
RE: Lalafell, strength and you! Light up the Sounsyy Signal. - Aya - 10-08-2014
I do not think this thread needs to be emotional, really. I understand that there are unique challenges to role-playing Lalafel, and its sad to hear stories of them not being taken seriously when they are played as such. But this thread is full of well-intentioned people (as is the RPC in general). Nowhere in the origin of this thread was there anything personal or accusatory. I think all of us are prepared to be flexible with regards to other players' RP, even when at times they might exceed what we would consider reasonable. Even if someone's character has to imagine that there is an outside source of such strength (such as aether) I do not think that anyone here would outright refuse to acknowledge it. I think it would be an inaccurate description of this thread to claim that anyone were trying to tell anyone else how to RP, and that is a good thing that I think we should keep in mind and appreciate!
Given that the initial question cannot be answered via the Lore, it can be broadly restated as, "What effect does the physical strength of Lalafel have on roleplay?"Â I think we've done a good job exploring that, and like any such topic there will be disagreement, but quite a number of different opinions on that have been discussed.
To direct my thoughts toward Lalafel players directly, I think I would sum up this discussion as follows: when thinking about the physical strength of your character you will want to consider both the effects it has on your roleplay, and on the manner in which other players interpret it. Players, and characters, will look differently upon a Lalafel throwing around the strength of a Highlander than they will one who is notably weaker. Both can be sound character concepts. (Inserting personal opinion: Although one stretches credulity for the sake of eliminating potentially interesting weakness, it may still be worthwhile for the overall concept of the character, and provide its own interesting point of RP.)
Anyway... I just really appreciate the RPC community!
RE: Lalafell, strength and you! Light up the Sounsyy Signal. - Aya - 10-08-2014
(10-08-2014, 04:48 PM)Kage Wrote: But this is why Kage always wonders what is such a big deal about what he does!Alright, well, that can be arranged!
RE: Lalafell, strength and you! Light up the Sounsyy Signal. - Warren Castille - 10-08-2014
Thinking about the twins and those guys getting tossed:
The entire story framed in 1.0 is all told through the Echo, memories. It's the past. It's entirely possible the common consensus of what happened that day got... muddled? Maybe they just got shoved out, but there was enough drink and laughter and the story got told over and over again until they were thrown, nay, they sailed out of the guild through the air like sparrows.
...I know the echo doesn't work that way, but... Well, no we don't. The echo works in mysterious ways!
RE: Lalafell, strength and you! Light up the Sounsyy Signal. - Zyrusticae - 10-08-2014
This thread just really makes me wish it was as simple and clear-cut as Aion's lore: everyone's immortal, everyone's an aether-wielding super-badass. One and done.
Instead, we've got so many obscure and unexplained items that we can have a 120+ post thread just discussing something as simple and obvious as 'how strong can a Lalafell be, really?'. It's kind of silly that things are this obscured considering how basic the question actually is.
I really regret not posting in the lore question thread earlier. Everything surrounding aether in general is really important to me and my character, and it would have been really, really nice to have an official word on that stuff. Hopefully someone actually asked about it and we get something, but I have a feeling we're going to be in the dark for awhile.
RE: Lalafell, strength and you! Light up the Sounsyy Signal. - ProvaDiServo - 10-08-2014
(10-08-2014, 03:53 PM)Kage Wrote: Edit: What if in a process similar to evolution and natural selection, lalafell bodies naturally (and not consciously) somehow have converted aether into a form of... well muscle power?
Something in that regard would be pretty interesting, but does that mean they expend more to aether to compensate for their size, or that they just make better use of aether naturally? What about those like the lala in the thm guild questline that had rediculously low aether levels? would that mean he's kinda screwed in terms of combat?
RE: Lalafell, strength and you! Light up the Sounsyy Signal. - Zyrusticae - 10-08-2014
(10-08-2014, 05:47 PM)ProvaDiServo Wrote: Something in that regard would be pretty interesting, but does that mean they expend more to aether to compensate for their size, or that they just make better use of aether naturally? What about those like the lala in the thm guild questline that had rediculously low aether levels? would that mean he's kinda screwed in terms of combat?Heh, well, that level of detail is something we could only speculate on (hell, the premise is speculation itself), unless a lore writer comes by and clarifies it all.
As for the THM with the low aether levels, that's actually kind of irrelevant for casters, as they're more concerned with how they can shape and manipulate the aether in their surrounding environment.
RE: Lalafell, strength and you! Light up the Sounsyy Signal. - Unnamed Mercenary - 10-08-2014
(10-08-2014, 05:47 PM)ProvaDiServo Wrote:(10-08-2014, 03:53 PM)Kage Wrote: Edit: What if in a process similar to evolution and natural selection, lalafell bodies naturally (and not consciously) somehow have converted aether into a form of... well muscle power?
Something in that regard would be pretty interesting, but does that mean they expend more to aether to compensate for their size, or that they just make better use of aether naturally? What about those like the lala in the thm guild questline that had rediculously low aether levels? would that mean he's kinda screwed in terms of combat?
If we bring up the Coco-bros (because I cannot name them all on the spot), they are /terrified/ of battle and physical combat. It's one of the first things they say. paraphrase: "go let the big stupid tank take all the hits while you charge up aether and blast the enemy with fire from a safe distance."Â
...they also initially tell the adventurer to run away from battles.
edit: Adding another reply
(10-08-2014, 05:50 PM)Zyrusticae Wrote: As for the THM with the low aether levels, that's actually kind of irrelevant for casters, as they're more concerned with how they can shape and manipulate the aether in their surrounding environment.Disgreement. Thaumaturgy in this game relies on one's own aether. Small aether pool = shiity Thaumaturgy. This is not the case for Conjurers that borrow from the land. And we have no idea how math makes magic for Arcanists, as far as I've read.
RE: Lalafell, strength and you! Light up the Sounsyy Signal. - Aduu Avagnar - 10-08-2014
(10-08-2014, 05:50 PM)Unnamed Mercenary Wrote: [quote pid=114566 dateline=1412805002]Disgreement. Thaumaturgy in this game relies on one's own aether. Small aether pool = shiity Thaumaturgy. This is not the case for Conjurers that borrow from the land. And we have no idea how math makes magic for Arcanists, as far as I've read.
As for the THM with the low aether levels, that's actually kind of irrelevant for casters, as they're more concerned with how they can shape and manipulate the aether in their surrounding environment.
[/quote]
Going to have to throw my agreement here.
Thaumaturgy is the manipulation of your internal aether to produce an external effect, it is the same reason the alchemist Cocobro cannot be a Thaumaturge. It is entirely possible for someone with a low aether pool to be a thaumaturge, but it would be incredibly physically taxing and risky for them to do more than the simplest of spells.
RE: Lalafell, strength and you! Light up the Sounsyy Signal. - Zyrusticae - 10-08-2014
Oh, right. I forgot that they don't start the 'drawing from the environment' thing until they actually become Black Mages.
Also I have never played a caster class in this game, so there's my excuse.
RE: Lalafell, strength and you! Light up the Sounsyy Signal. - Seriphyn - 10-08-2014
This topic reminds me of reading up on a Miqo'te character who was "as strong as Highlanders and Roegadyn".Â
WTB RPers who actively embrace the lore of their character's race*
*facetious ofc, I know mostly everyone does!
RE: Lalafell, strength and you! Light up the Sounsyy Signal. - Aduu Avagnar - 10-08-2014
(10-08-2014, 07:11 PM)Seriphyn Wrote: This topic reminds me of reading up on a Miqo'te character who was "as strong as Highlanders and Roegadyn".ÂTBH, through a lot of training, a Miqo'te could feasibly become as strong as a standard Roe or Highlander. and I view Miqo'te as being a wiry strength, as opposed to a bulky strength. Think Wolverine Vs. Juggernaut.
WTB RPers who actively embrace the lore of their character's race*
*facetious ofc, I know mostly everyone does!
Also, your comment about RP'ers that embrace the lore of their race, there is no lore stating the strength level disparity between them, it is mostly logical assumption, but until the lalafell answer is given, we can't make an accurate statement any which way.
RE: Lalafell, strength and you! Light up the Sounsyy Signal. - GloryRhodes - 10-08-2014
Ok, let's talk about CHIMPS.
A chimpanzee male, at its heaviest, can weigh up to 150lbs. The head of the Yale Primate Research Laboratory, a guy named Glen Finch in the 40s did strength tests on captive chimps and found that adult males can lift a pretty hefty weight and are, on average, pound for pound, about twice as strong as human beings. Why? Chimpanzee muscles have longer fibers than those of humans, allowing them to produce twice the amount of energy in the same range of motion. A 150 pound chimp is on par with the strength of a 300 pound man.
So, you see all these Brass Blades and Sultansworn with beat ass bronze swords and shields, not magical enchanted weaponry, and you have stories of Lalafel pugilists, and you see several in action. You also see Lalafel anatomy as being short, thick, peoples with heavy, meaty torsos. For their size they have a lot of mass.
I speculate that Lalafel musculature is simply different than that of other races, specifically that of Hyur. It's not too much of a stretch to assume that Lalafel, who are very agile but tend to move without bending their limbs much (look at that Lala walk) have a different structure to their muscles. If we give that Lalas have a muscle structure like that of chimps, twice as powerful as that of a Hyur's, pound for pound, then suddenly everything makes sense. No more "They must be more highly trained!" and other problems like that.
Lalas are just physiologically different, as much so as a human and a chimp.
RE: Lalafell, strength and you! Light up the Sounsyy Signal. - Aduu Avagnar - 10-08-2014
(10-08-2014, 07:29 PM)GloryRhodes Wrote: Ok, let's talk about CHIMPS.Science, Bitches!
A chimpanzee male, at its heaviest, can weigh up to 150lbs. The head of the Yale Primate Research Laboratory, a guy named Glen Finch in the 40s did strength tests on captive chimps and found that adult males can lift a pretty hefty weight and are, on average, pound for pound, about twice as strong as human beings. Why? Chimpanzee muscles have longer fibers than those of humans, allowing them to produce twice the amount of energy in the same range of motion. A 150 pound chimp is on par with the strength of a 300 pound man.
So, you see all these Brass Blades and Sultansworn with beat ass bronze swords and shields, not magical enchanted weaponry, and you have stories of Lalafel pugilists, and you see several in action. You also see Lalafel anatomy as being short, thick, peoples with heavy, meaty torsos. For their size they have a lot of mass.
I speculate that Lalafel musculature is simply different than that of other races, specifically that of Hyur. It's not too much of a stretch to assume that Lalafel, who are very agile but tend to move without bending their limbs much (look at that Lala walk) have a different structure to their muscles. If we give that Lalas have a muscle structure like that of chimps, twice as powerful as that of a Hyur's, pound for pound, then suddenly everything makes sense. No more "They must be more highly trained!" and other problems like that.
Lalas are just physiologically different, as much so as a human and a chimp.
In all seriousness, thank you for this.
RE: Lalafell, strength and you! Light up the Sounsyy Signal. - Tiergan - 10-08-2014
(10-08-2014, 07:29 PM)GloryRhodes Wrote: Ok, let's talk about CHIMPS.
A chimpanzee male, at its heaviest, can weigh up to 150lbs. The head of the Yale Primate Research Laboratory, a guy named Glen Finch in the 40s did strength tests on captive chimps and found that adult males can lift a pretty hefty weight and are, on average, pound for pound, about twice as strong as human beings. Why? Chimpanzee muscles have longer fibers than those of humans, allowing them to produce twice the amount of energy in the same range of motion. A 150 pound chimp is on par with the strength of a 300 pound man.
So, you see all these Brass Blades and Sultansworn with beat ass bronze swords and shields, not magical enchanted weaponry, and you have stories of Lalafel pugilists, and you see several in action. You also see Lalafel anatomy as being short, thick, peoples with heavy, meaty torsos. For their size they have a lot of mass.
I speculate that Lalafel musculature is simply different than that of other races, specifically that of Hyur. It's not too much of a stretch to assume that Lalafel, who are very agile but tend to move without bending their limbs much (look at that Lala walk) have a different structure to their muscles. If we give that Lalas have a muscle structure like that of chimps, twice as powerful as that of a Hyur's, pound for pound, then suddenly everything makes sense. No more "They must be more highly trained!" and other problems like that.
Lalas are just physiologically different, as much so as a human and a chimp.
This is actually really interesting. If it actually worked out that way, it would suddenly make sense that your average lala could pack a punch hard enough to match that of a hyur. Or at least hard enough to make bigger, bulkier races think a little.
Somehow I don't see the FFXIV lore-team thinking this far. :V
RE: Lalafell, strength and you! Light up the Sounsyy Signal. - Hiro - 10-08-2014
(10-08-2014, 09:45 AM)Kage Wrote: A keen edge however, can only take you so far.
If we're not going with the fact that Lalafell must be able to hold their own physically to continuously keep up with their Hyur and Roegadyn counterparts in the Yellowjackets, the Blades, the Sultansworn... then it means that a -lot- of Lalafell are just able to fight at better standards. Their skill level in terms of combat knowhow and such would have to be, in average, at higher level than their larger counterparts.
We're applying the laws of physics, reasonably so, to a world in which we don't know what the laws are.
This sort of sums up my thoughts entirely. The world within Final Fantasy is NOT our world. Everything we know to be true and reasonable may not apply in entirety in ARR especially with aether and other magical variants being as shrouded and undefined as they currently are. Those who can harness aether, like the concept behind 'chi', 'chakra', and other "inner" energies may in fact be utilizing it subconsciously to enhance their physical capabilities.
The combat and various class training missions we see in this game already disproves any sort of actual physical limits we should be adhering to. From simple menuvers in combat to more mobile actions, are we really trying to quantify what one race is capable of compared to another? I mean the Marauder storyline itself features plenty of races, and I guarantee some of the "tests" in that storyline are certainly less tied to their skill and more to their physical aptitude.