+- Hydaelyn Role-Players (https://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/mybb18)
+-- Forum: Community (https://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/mybb18/forumdisplay.php?fid=8)
+--- Forum: RP Discussion (https://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/mybb18/forumdisplay.php?fid=13)
+--- Thread: Allowing Class to Define Character (/showthread.php?tid=8578)
Allowing Class to Define Character - CrookedTarot - 10-09-2014
As Rogue/Ninja approaches quickly, I have been doing some thinking. This started with just Tarot but now I can't help but see it spread into other things as I notice the more rogueish types around-abouts prepping like I was for a while.
Is it good or bad to let your in-game class choice define your character?
Case in point, we've been told outright that Rogue, as a class, will not have 'Thief' abilities. Likely not bonuses to loot drops, gill multipliers or the like since that would make Rogues far and away more desirable. This is a safe assumption, I think.
Now, with that in mind, Rogues use knives as their weapons of choice--dual-wielding knives or katanas which eventually becomes Ninja. Maybe Kunais at that point, I dunno.
So, that is what led me to my thought.
Tarot doesn't use knives. Or rather, not as a mainstay. He doesn't kill unless absolutely necessary. In fact he's ICly killed one person in all the time I've played in all the MMOs I've used him.
So why am I so psyched about Rogue? There is nothing that Rogue will offer that makes Tarot more Tarot.
They use knives.
He doesn't.
They don't (presumably) have skills that are thief-based.
Tarot is a thief.
So here's the thing. Let's say you meet two characters in, I dunno, Grindstone in one year from now, and let's assume NO new classes have dropped since then. Now, one of those characters is a Rogue class and the other is a Marauder. Would you think immediately (and I am talking instinctively) 'Oh, they're a rogue, they likely play X type character'.
Now, before I get the onrush of 'Oh I'd never' I am talking simply based on pure instinct and snap judgment before you actually have a chance to meet the character. Do you judge (even if for a single moment) the content of the character based on class? Nothing wrong with this at all, mind you--it's human nature blah blah blah.
We categorize based on past experiences--just like I've heard numerous folks say 'Once Ninja drops there will be Naruto clones everywhere'. And yeah, I've heard more than a few people say this, both in game and in forums. Again, past experiences talking here.
On a more personal level, do YOU identify your character by their class? When you created your character, did you think 'Oh, well there's no a Blue Mage option so this won't work for my character concept." I know I did for Tarot--oops, no Thief, Tarot cannot BE!
I've probably got more to say about this but my train of thought got derailed by someone so I can't remember my other point.
I guess my main point is; would you assume a character is less legit in their claims to be something if they don't have the class to match? if someone was playing an archer but wanted to say they were using black magic as their mainstay with the bow being a fall back? Or if a character was claiming to be a Warrior but chose to utilize a Mining Pick rather than an axe?
RE: Allowing Class to Define Character - Aya - 10-09-2014
Many, if not most of us, are RPing characters that are (at most) loosely designed around in-game classes. I don't think you have to worry
If that weren't the case you and I would be in a lot of trouble until they came out with the merchant, barmaid, and dancer classes!
RE: Allowing Class to Define Character - Warren Castille - 10-09-2014
To answer your Grindstone question: Yes, I categorize people into the stereotypes and then see where it takes me. Hell, I stereotype people based on 1) their introduction post and 2) how long it takes them to write it.
I don't hold them to those ideas, mind you, but it's safe to say that a big burly Roe wielding an axe fits a certain oeuvre of personality. Similarly, someone playing a rogue is likely to be a dodgier, trash-talkier sort of person. Tropes exist for a reason.
To answer the personal question: I suppose? Warren started as a miner, not anything else. The rest of the stuff is history, but in his core Warren was meant to be a shoulder-down-face-task-now-work sort of guy. He still is, he's just got a different set of tools to do it with now.
RE: Allowing Class to Define Character - Eva - 10-09-2014
I personally feel that class/job is too shallow a thing on which to define a character. Â It can be a central/focal point. Â But it should be one of many, at least for a compelling character. Â If that's your thing, than great. Â But my belief is it makes for a pretty dull character.
"Hello my name is Kain the dragoon. Â I'm from Ishgard and I train with my lance day in and day out. Â I'm all about the dragooning and dragoony things. Â I have a love affair with my spear. Â I hate Dravanians."
Yeah, it's neat. Â But a character should have more dimensions than just a job/class in my opinion.
Think of it in real life. Â I'm a computer technician. Â That's swell. Â But that doesn't define me. Â I enjoy spending time around the fire pit with friends and drinking hard lemonade/cider. Â I listen to prog metal. Â I love certain TV shows (omg Gotham is ossum so far!), I am a compassionate person, I enjoy a particular MMO. Â I am a creative soul who loves to write.
So... yeah... call me a computer technician if you want. Â Call Eva a priestess. Â You wouldn't be wrong. Â But there's more to us both than that. Â ^_^
EDIT TO APPEND: I think a certain amount of suspension of disbelief with regards to gear and such is acceptable. RPers will often disagree upon this point though. In short, just RP what you want and in the way that you want. I've known PLD's who have been RPing dual-wielding swords, for instance. Nothing wrong with that. Doesn't seem to me there's any force in Eorzea that would literally prohibit a character from using two hands to each pick up a sword. No, the game mechanics don't allow it, but... reasonable deviation is reasonable for the sake of realistic and enjoyable RP.
RE: Allowing Class to Define Character - Berrod Armstrong - 10-09-2014
I avoid that by not assuming to begin with! If I see a character, I wait for the player to describe and introduce them. From that, I have my character respond accordingly.
So someone wearing an acolyte robe and holding a book can be described as a warrior and I'd be okay with it, because I'm looking more at what is written than anything else.
RE: Allowing Class to Define Character - Aduu Avagnar - 10-09-2014
I would say it happens, and it will continue to happen, and like with all roleplay, there are pros and cons to it. However, it should also be said, that some of Nako's gear can only be worn by DoW, so although he is primarily a mage, he wanders around as a Gladiator half the time. (he also is trained in the use of a sword, but thats another matter... XD its more a fallback than a primary armament.)
But yes, the safest way to avoid it is indeed to not pigeonhole people based on the class they currently are running around as, as Berrod said.
RE: Allowing Class to Define Character - CrookedTarot - 10-09-2014
(10-09-2014, 02:02 PM)Aya Wrote: Many, if not most of us, are RPing characters that are (at most) loosely designed around in-game classes. I don't think you have to worry
If that weren't the case you and I would be in a lot of trouble until they came out with the merchant, barmaid, and dancer classes!
I still have my fingers crossed for the first and last ones there, Aya--though all three have been Jobs in other RPGs.
(Dragon Quest has had Merchants and Jokers and Enix made the Dragon Quest games so...here's hoping~)
RE: Allowing Class to Define Character - Melkire - 10-09-2014
To what extent - how closely or how loosely - your class helps define your character is, ultimately, up to you, the roleplayer.
In contrast to Tarot, Osric does use knives as a mainstay. I'll be using Rogue in-game for that purpose, to depict something that otherwise would require a little imagination from everyone involved in such a scene.
As for thieving... pffft. I don't have to let the lore behind Rogue dictate my character's history. He grew up poor and destitute in Limsa, and he stole, robbed, and burgled regularly. That's a roleplay matter; unless the Rogue class quest storyline straight out says "there are no thieves in Limsa anymore" (which I would call total bullshit on, as no city is ever free of crime unless, like, The Flash lives there) then I see no conflict between character backstory and canon lore.
EDIT: To answer the ultimate question posed in the OP... no, I wouldn't go so far as to say that a class must define a character to such an extent that a warrior cannot go around using a pickaxe as his weapon of choice.
RE: Allowing Class to Define Character - Zyrusticae - 10-09-2014
Well, I personally tend to judge people more by what they're wearing and such than I do their class or job. If your character is wearing something deeply impractical but highly ornate, that says a lot about them right there (i.e. that they put personal appearances over personal comfort). This can fall apart in the case of players who don't really give their RP outfits that much thought but, um, well, I can't say I really want to RP with such individuals to begin with.
But okay, T'rahnu. See, the problem with T'rahnu is that she is actually a budding weapon master, and there is literally no way for me to properly represent that in-game. I can't really have her holding a spear, a bow, claws, and an axe at the same time, after all (though it would be really nice if I could have those hanging off of my chocobo...). So that first impression of her, if you take her current weapon as an indicator of her focus, can be really highly misleading.
So that's one of the reasons I tend to look at outfits over weapons. ...Hmm, actually, that's pretty much the primary reason. I already know that it can be a poor indicator as it is, so I focus on other things. Yep. That's how it goes.
RE: Allowing Class to Define Character - Roswyn - 10-09-2014
Personally, my process was a little in reverse.
Ros's backstory and development influence what classes were chosen to depict what was happening to her as she changed and grew up.
Ex:
"This character was born in the Shroud so it seems logical she'd know how to use a bow. "
Instead of:
"I want my character to use bows so I think I have to make her be from the Shroud."
RE: Allowing Class to Define Character - Unnamed Mercenary - 10-09-2014
(10-09-2014, 02:20 PM)Roswyn Wrote: Personally, my process was a little in reverse.
Ros's backstory and development influence what classes were chosen to depict what was happening to her as she changed and grew up.
Ex:
"This character was born in the Shroud so it seems logical she'd know how to use a bow. "
Instead of:
"I want my character to use bows so I think I have to make her be from the Shroud."
That's about how I figured mine too. Although, it's kinda hard to RP out a class from Eorzea when your character isn't. Makes it fun though.
RE: Allowing Class to Define Character - CrookedTarot - 10-09-2014
(10-09-2014, 02:19 PM)Zyrusticae Wrote: See, the problem with T'rahnu is that she is actually a budding weapon master, and there is literally no way for me to properly represent that in-game. I can't really have her holding a spear, a bow, claws, and an axe at the same time, after all (though it would be really nice if I could have those hanging off of my chocobo...).
Which I get this, but then you get into the debate on what IS a weapon? For instance, in my example, pick-axes are not only useable as a weapon but have been used as weapons before hand.
Adding to that, the moment you say 'weapons master' I think 'Firion' who also has experience with magics too. So does your character also have magical training as well?
Or let's say I have a character that uses a bo staff--obviously the closets options are lances (which there are none that don't have a sharp, pointy end) or a Conjurer or Thau using a staff. Naturally, Lancers use a stance more akin to how a bo-staff wielder MIGHT fight but a mage has the more 'staff' looking weapon.
This crosses in the 'reminder' discussion. Having to remind other players that 'X Character isn't using a X Weapon but actually a Y so please remember and use your imagination'.
RE: Allowing Class to Define Character - Sophia_Grave - 10-09-2014
Sophia has a veritable utility belt at this point. she has her sword, a handgun, a few knives, as well as some other doohickeys. I run into the same problem as Zyrusticae; there's no way to represent my character the way I'd like to. And that's alright; I've run into plenty of people who have the same issue. Its convinced me not to take anything at face value, until the player proves that the case.
Otherwise, I think classes roles in general are a great starting place. While sort of shallow on their own, they do provide a nice base of advantages/disadvantages/problems/whatever for your character to work with. The interesting part is how your character chooses to overcome or not overcome those challenges. Take Sophia for example. She's a tried-and-true, third eye-having (hidden, of course!) Garlean agent. That alone says a lot about her, but its how she handles it and does with it that says more.
RE: Allowing Class to Define Character - CrookedTarot - 10-09-2014
(10-09-2014, 02:04 PM)Berrod Armstrong Wrote: I avoid that by not assuming to begin with! If I see a character, I wait for the player to describe and introduce them. From that, I have my character respond accordingly.
So someone wearing an acolyte robe and holding a book can be described as a warrior and I'd be okay with it, because I'm looking more at what is written than anything else.
Everyone's a little bit Classist!
-points to Avenue Q song of a similar title but not quite-
RE: Allowing Class to Define Character - ProvaDiServo - 10-09-2014
Does this mean I can finally be a kung fu chef duelist? With frying pan kung fu skills?