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So, another noob question. - Printable Version

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So, another noob question. - Aaron - 12-14-2014

Well actually, it may not be a noob question.  . . I dunno. .  Ima ask anyway. . . OK THEN.

The question involves the "special snowflake" aspect 90% of our character (including me) have regarding fighting capabilities. It seems that it's in human nature to want to be the "strongest" or "most badass" and in a sense im sure we all went down that road before. If you haven't then grats! 

Ok. So people who know Aaron IC might have noticed that lately he's been wearing a eye patch over his left eye and has been very uncomfortable with fighting even moreso than usual to the point he bailed fearfully out of his grindstone match against Raik yesterday. Some OOC information before I ask the question, Aaron has a new ability and from in game feedback OOC (My friend Nik but then again he thinks everything is OP lol Niklas im joking) and from IC feedback from the rare few people Aaron did show so far im thinking it MIGHT be a little over the top. I dunno, but I really like the idea because it involves his Ceruleum poisoning and I think it's creative.

Ok shutting up now, my question is, to the people IC that are borderline voidsent or science experiments and all that. How do you go about showing people your "ability" if you put it. One of Aarons friends said if used right people would accept him and another friend said Aarons "skill" was borderline like he was tempered. I just don't want to go overboard with it cause I think it may have more strengths than weaknesses idk. 

If this'll help anyone in making a decision. I mostly will only use this for PvE content rp over PvP unless the other person agrees to it.

Aarons skill is, he found a way to channel the Ceruleum ravaging his body into what it intentionally was made for, a fuel source. And focused it into a part of his body that made it easier to channel as fuel which became his left eye. It turned red as a coloration of all that stuff in his blood however as of now Aaron can't turn it off. When he takes the eye patch off his eye starts to drain his "fuel" in order to "sharpen and edge" his ice aether to something about as sharp as obsidian or broken glass yet flexible. This gives him the ability to create umm we'll call em tails, up to 3 or 4 of them that sprout from about the waist on his lower back. The tails are basically like glass cannons, their damage is frightfully effective (IC one impaled a man right through the chest and suspended him up in the air. Like it went CLEAN through his gut) but they're brittle as a toddler when attacked. (A NIN he fought managed to crack all 4 tails with a katon and a raiton completely shattered one.) And once their destroyed they can't come back for a few hours. 

I really made this ability for development though, right now Aaron IC is scared and feels like people will kill him if they so much as see this so he's like batshit afraid to fight right now. If you tried to beat him up in QS right now he most likely wouldn't even fight back. 

Anyway back to my question. When using stuff like this IC how far is TOO FAR ? Like if Aaron was in the QS and a guy attacking him knocked his eye patch off. That'd get him killed if the tails showed right? 

And in my defense should people say I've been Godmoding I've seen a LOT more OP stuff being used by other people and it being ok. Like one time out in gridania I stumbled upon a guy "dropping a small comet" onto his enemy. I don't see my idea as OP if used right. But then again this is coming from the guy who watches OP stuff every day (looking at you Anime)

Yea, I just kept walking. 

Any help greatly appreciated btw

EDIT IN RESPONSE TO STEEL WOLF - Since the XIV lore seems to derive off FF7 I basically see Ceruleum as Mako Energy. Both convert lifestream/aether to power and are both volatile to humans in large amounts etc etc.

RE: So, another noob question. - Oli! - 12-14-2014

This seems like the sort of thing that has the potential to turn into one of those Topics of DOOOOOOOM, so as a result this might turn away from the answers that you want and more towards a debate on the merits of this sort of thing.

Nevertheless, I'll format my thoughts over some breakfast and post here when I have time to.

RE: So, another noob question. - Aaron - 12-14-2014

Ya ima make it clear prematurely 

Everyone remember im really only using this for PvE UNLESS in PvP the other person AGREES.


PvE is a lot easier for this stuff right? >_>

RE: So, another noob question. - Oli! - 12-14-2014

(12-14-2014, 09:52 AM)Keyblade Wrote: Ya ima make it clear prematurely 

Everyone remember im really only using this for PvE UNLESS in PvP the other person AGREES.


PvE is a lot easier for this stuff right? >_>



It's more of a conceptual argument that is completely separate from whether or not you're using it against other people, really.

RE: So, another noob question. - Aaron - 12-14-2014

Well I fail at conceptual stuff. Or maybe I don't. 

I just wanna see feedback because I see a lot of stuff people have that far outshine this ability wise.

RE: So, another noob question. - Steel Wolf - 12-14-2014

*comet lands in the middle of the street*
"Just another day in Ul'dah. Freakin' Thaumaturges."

XD

On point...so it sounds like to me that you've interacted with folks who have been exposed to and reacted appropriately to these "tails" you're referring. I'm not entirely sure how one can apply that in a PvE situation, unless one of your abilities is being subbed in?

Sorry if I'm asking dumb questions, that wasn't made completely clear to me.

I find the origin of this whole thing a bit oddball, but not outside of the realm of possibility I suppose. I'm not sure how ceruleum has been applied as far as being a source for augmentation. I know it to be a power source for machinery and that's kind of about it, so perhaps this sort of thing is what would happen if augmentation were possible?

Though, tails? Interesting....

I'd say that, perhaps, since you've got people who have already been exposed to that ability is to stick with them, and perhaps include someone whom you've recently met to your character's ability in a controlled environment if you believe they'd be comfortable with the revelation...but only after you've spent a fair deal of time interacting.

Being afraid of one's power and exercising the will and diligence to maintain it has been a defining characteristic of lots of heroes, so that part makes sense, obviously...and if that's the sort of character you're trying to write and enjoy writing, then have at it.

Just my .02 here, really. <3

RE: So, another noob question. - Aaron - 12-14-2014

Lol ikr? Im like, you just walk by a BAM a comet drops.

Also I edited my opening to answer your Ceruleum question. It's tbh basically like Mako Energy except no one here has been injected with it lore wise in FF XIV

As for pve I mean like you know those battles where it's a small group vs a ton of NPCs or something.

And Aaron isn't a hero, it's just that Ceruleum basically dictates everything he does. It's like a big flaw

RE: So, another noob question. - Steel Wolf - 12-14-2014

(12-14-2014, 10:31 AM)Keyblade Wrote: And Aaron isn't a hero, it's just that Ceruleum basically dictates everything he does. It's like a big flaw

Well, that was more in reference to the archetype you were writing.

So you're not working off an established lore precedent...that might make some people discontent. Again, I need to read up on the lore on how ceruleum works to know if this sort of thing is within the realm of potential. My first thought without further reading is that the only society in Eorzea that would have been capable of this sort of tech are the Allagans...which, again, is a red flag for some folks, considering Allagan tech is under very tight lockdown. But then again, there's been plenty of breakouts from Garlemald and Ishgard in terms of characters created, so...

I dunno, someone more versed than me about this will probably provide more valuable opinion than mine. It seems like its reasonable, but only barely just as it's written right now.

RE: So, another noob question. - Oli! - 12-14-2014

Here's my opinion.

Is it over the top? Yes. Should you turn it down? Also yes. I haven't come across a lot of Lore on Ceruleum other than it crystallizes in response to aether and is pretty much just Petrol, so I'm not the person to talk to for Lore Holes. Regardless, I'm one of the people that prefers the "you could, but sometimes you shouldn't" line of thinking. As exemplified by the previous posts, although a thaumaturge could technically call down fireballs of death from the sky, actually doing it is somewhat ridiculous and frowned upon. You don't need a super crazy power to tell a tale of internal struggle.

To address the idea of other people having more over the top powers, I would say that thinking along the "everyone's doing it!" path just leads to a world where everyone is a god and (according to my personal viewpoint) everything is awful.

Yes, there's always the "it's your RP, do what you want" camp, and the very nature of that thought makes it unassailable without seeming like a huge elitist or jerk or whatever else. But I feel it needs reminding that RP is a collaborative activity. You can do whatever you want, but there are other people sharing the space, too. If you're throwing your power around, even if it's only against NPCs, you could be affecting others in a way that they don't want to be effected.

RE: So, another noob question. - Aaron - 12-14-2014

(12-14-2014, 10:56 AM)Oli! Wrote: Here's my opinion.

Is it over the top? Yes. Should you turn it down? Also yes. I haven't come across a lot of Lore on Ceruleum other than it crystallizes in response to aether and is pretty much just Petrol, so I'm not the person to talk to for Lore Holes. Regardless, I'm one of the people that prefers the "you could, but sometimes you shouldn't" line of thinking. As exemplified by the previous posts, although a thaumaturge could technically call down fireballs of death from the sky, actually doing it is somewhat ridiculous and frowned upon. You don't need a super crazy power to tell a tale of internal struggle.

To address the idea of other people having more over the top powers, I would say that thinking along the "everyone's doing it!" path just leads to a world where everyone is a god and (according to my personal viewpoint) everything is awful.

Yes, there's always the "it's your RP, do what you want" camp, and the very nature of that thought makes it unassailable without seeming like a huge elitist or jerk or whatever else. But I feel it needs reminding that RP is a collaborative activity. You can do whatever you want, but there are other people sharing the space, too. If you're throwing your power around, even if it's only against NPCs, you could be affecting others in a way that they don't want to be effected.
Don't worry about the Ceruleum lore, you will not find anything other than it's used a a fuel source. I know I've tried to look myself. Thing is, I once proposed a idea of why Aaron was poisoned with it and why he didn't cause a nuclear explosion (it involved aether starved Mor Dhona) and everyone here who read the thread was ok with it.

If you search you'll still find it. It's called "Mako Energy and the Lifestream" and it was me just making sure that the lore basically was FF7 revamped. Aether is basically the Lifestream, Ceruleum other than the fact it explodes if it outright meets aether is basically Mako Energy. Gaius is a wanna be Sephiroth dropping stuff on the planet and everyone has aether sickness like a weak Geostigma. 

I personally don't see anything too far from lore with it honestly. It's not to the point its comparable to a THM dropping comets on the ground. If anything it's actually just a modification of how one would use their own aspect aether in battle.

It's not me doing the "everyone is doing it logic" just moreso me comparing how far my idea is from others. Cause to be frank, nothing in lore says anything against using element aether or modifying it to different stages. Use glass cannon tails of ice seems a lot more reasonable than a THM pulling a comet out the sky or a fire user pulling a Ifrit scale fire attack.

And the PvE would be with very specific people. Not me just jumping into some rp with people getting attacked and forcefully putting it in theirs. Lol that'd be dumb of me.

RE: So, another noob question. - Aaron - 12-14-2014

Found the post
Quote:The Lifestream is canon to both FFVII and FFXIV. The Lifestream in XIV, like VII, is the lifeblood of the planet. It flows in specific currents beneath the surface of the world and feeds all life. I talked a little more recently about aether in this thread on Teleporting.
Quote:But you are right, XIV draws very heavily from VII throughout. To the point where a fair argument could be made that Makoand Aether are one in the same. It's been a long time since I've played VII though, so I won't try to make any specific distinctions between the two right now. Actually, now that I think about it, wasn't Mako refined lifestream juice? Like the bigMako refineries in Midgar? If that's the case, Mako would be equivalent to XIV's ceruleum, which is refined aether.
Quote:Suffice it to say that Aether is the lifeblood of the planet Hydaelyn and all living things. When we die, our Aether returns to theLifestream and is carried back to Silvertear Lake in Mor Dhona (think Iifa Tree in IX) where it passes to the Aetherial Plane, before returning to the Physical Plane as new Life.
Quote:In 1.0, the natural cycle of the Lifestream was interrupted by the falling of Dalamud, where, the very lifestream ebbed away from it's natural course and fed Dalamud instead. Which is why the planet was dying and couldn't support the summoning ofthe Twelve at the Battle of Carteneau. To expend what little aether remained in the planet would have killed Hydaelyn.  
Quote:As far as Midgar in XIV, maybe you're thinking of Midgardsormr? Though, related to what we're talking about, Midgardsormr was the Keeper of Silvertear Lake and guardian of the fount of all aether in Hydaelyn.
Quote:EDIT: Also, Nael van Darnus = Sephiroth. Final Fantasy's favorite villain has already been Fourteen-afied. Meteor project, bringing down the moon, walking through some really hot fire and laughing about it... yep, all Nael van Sephiroth's doing. 


RE: So, another noob question. - Oli! - 12-14-2014

(12-14-2014, 11:11 AM)Keyblade Wrote: I personally don't see anything too far from lore with it honestly. It's not to the point its comparable to a THM dropping comets on the ground. ...

It's not me doing the "everyone is doing it logic" just moreso me comparing how far my idea is from others. Cause to be frank, nothing in lore says anything against using element aether or modifying it to different stages. Use glass cannon tails of ice seems a lot more reasonable than a THM pulling a comet out the sky or a fire user pulling a Ifrit scale fire attack.


This is what I'm getting at, here.

Could you? Yes. Should you? Questionable. Thaumaturges dropping meteors is actually in the game. That doesn't mean that it's something that a lot of people like to see. Since we don't have any lore that says yes or no, it's less about whether or not it's doable, and more about whether it should be done. Meteors? So doable it's a move in the game. But people don't think it's a good thing to do.

Same thing here, at least to me. Plausible? Yes. But having super sharp tails that can impale people and cut through armor probably isn't a good move. Sure, you could break the tails, but even if I mentioned you could dodor the meteor, that still probably wouldn't change many minds on that skill's application.

RE: So, another noob question. - Aaron - 12-14-2014

(12-14-2014, 11:24 AM)Oli! Wrote:
(12-14-2014, 11:11 AM)Keyblade Wrote: I personally don't see anything too far from lore with it honestly. It's not to the point its comparable to a THM dropping comets on the ground. ...

It's not me doing the "everyone is doing it logic" just moreso me comparing how far my idea is from others. Cause to be frank, nothing in lore says anything against using element aether or modifying it to different stages. Use glass cannon tails of ice seems a lot more reasonable than a THM pulling a comet out the sky or a fire user pulling a Ifrit scale fire attack.


This is what I'm getting at, here.

Could you? Yes. Should you? Questionable. Thaumaturges dropping meteors is actually in the game. That doesn't mean that it's something that a lot of people like to see. Since we don't have any lore that says yes or no, it's less about whether or not it's doable, and more about whether it should be done. Meteors? So doable it's a move in the game. But people don't think it's a good thing to do.

Same thing here, at least to me. Plausible? Yes. But having super sharp tails that can impale people and cut through armor probably isn't a good move. Sure, you could break the tails, but even if I mentioned you could dodor the meteor, that still probably wouldn't change many minds on that skill's application.
Hmm you do make a good point.  . However if I did do PvP with that people could still dodge etc, I used the idea in a IC fight and Aarons opponent took out all four tails after a good battle and she dodged em relatively easy. Where unlike dodging a comet is possible. Lol, yes people will probably think I wanna be a special snowflake and all that jazz but I tend to only focus on one thing, I use the "less special is more special" take to rp with my character and all.

In the end, I'm taking in account all the feedback here and I'll probably test it out in game with afew more friends who are a lot better at rp than me lol. See how it works out. So far it hasn't been tagged as definite op. Maybe just people aren't used to seeing this kind of idea?

RE: So, another noob question. - Unnamed Mercenary - 12-14-2014

(12-14-2014, 11:11 AM)Keyblade Wrote: Gaius is a wanna be Sephiroth

I think you mean Nael van Darnus. Gaius van Baelsar was against dropping Dalamud onto Eorzea. (Remember, your average Garlean just wants you to live under their rule, not be dead! Nael pretty much went 'well if we can't beat/have Eorzea, we'll just blow it up.)

OK, now to actually answer things. Hopefully, my just-woken-up brain is functioning.

As a person RPing a failed science experiment (the science worked, but it wasn't stable enough and the others either died, or were killed) who could have a lot of OP-ness, I've found I generally try to avoid RPing it out at all costs with random people. In a controlled and small group of people I know and have discussed OOC concerns with? Sure. They can see how broken Franz is. To the open-world? ....not unless SE magically decides to say what I've done exactly is lore-friendly. (Although, the recent Shiva plots in 2.4 have worked wonders for my lore-stabbing and have given me a few possible routes to explain what was done in a semi-lore-friendly manner)

In regards to the ice ability, I'm thinking it works almost like Vectors in Elfen Lied (it's an anime. Boobs and lots of violence warning if you google it). In this regard, I would want to ask how much control Aaron would have of it ICly. I mean, a creepy eye is one thing. Sprouting a bunch of tails/tentacles of ice is weird, but possibly something some arcanist-thaumaturge could accomplish. Losing control and stabbing the attacker immediately? Could get difficult. I would probably limit using them with people you know, or who are comfortable with such things first. As more people would get exposed to it, you could then maybe start using it out in the open for more public events. I've more or less had Franz's OP stuff ready since about late-spring, and it only just now has started making appearances out of the smallest groups of people.

--
Side note: Special-snowflaking mindset

This is the second occurrence I've seen someone cite that "most of the community wants to be a special snowflake", but I think I'd have to disagree. If anything, what we've seen through people's reactions in other threads, posts, and general RP behavior is that anything that get's too over the top will end up causing flame wars on the forums, and avoidance in game. As such, people do tend to avoid being "that guy/girl who's extra-special". Remember, we're only the main-character of our own stories. We're but only side-characters to the other people. A special-snowflake character would imply you're also the main-character (or acting like one) in someone else's story, and that can cause a lot of toes being stepped on. 

While I wouldn't say the general mindset is to play a bunch of average-person NPCs, using abilities beyond what we see NPCs doing leads to the WoL/special snowflake route. Having a unique character is good. Everyone needs a personality and something to make them stand out. Crazy abilities that cannot be explained away in the lore tend to distance the heavy-RPers, as there are no grounds or logical order to it. My consensus is that I'd encourage you to find something that hits more of a middle ground. The idea is cool, but to someone who's going to be very strict on the lore, they will eat you alive. 

--
Other side note: Any THM casting a meteor/flare should be looked at oddly. Those are -extremely- high-level spells that implies perfect mastery of THM, and definitely some BLM, which does rely on void magic which has fallen out of practice. As such, they should be incredibly rare. It's just as lore-breaking to be casting a spell to crash a comet down. I tend to think of it this way: Your average person (even trained/educated) probably isn't much higher leveled that say, 30. Let's remember that a bunch of late-teens and 20-somethings wouldn't compare in combat training to the seasoned adventurers who are possibly twice their age. (Even if it pretty much describes every FF character from 7 onwards)

RE: So, another noob question. - Aaron - 12-14-2014

Yeah, Nael lol my bad. And thanks for the input!  I'll probably take your route and keep it to a tight circle of people (maybe throw it out there to a stranger if IC Aaron is near in a dire situation). I don't plan to go around IC telling everyone that Aaron has some weird ass ability. 

As for the Elfeim lied anime, yes lol I've seen it. My concept was a little more akin to Tokyo Ghoul with the scaled tails and all that. But in a sense I guess they're the same. 

As for how much control Aaron would have, well it'd really depend on his physical state. A well rested and calm Aaron would have pretty much full control over a insomnia ridden and scared Aaron. It'd also get out of control the longer he went using it as it's very taxing to use. But more often than not he wouldn't be berserk unless he absolutely had a screw loose.

I appreciate the feedback, nice to know you found a way to do it perfect.