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+--- Thread: The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales (/showthread.php?tid=9312)
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RE: The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales - Valence - 05-01-2016
If a conjurer can't handle a tank dropping too fast, an AST probably can't either.
RE: The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales - Klynzahr - 05-01-2016
I wasn't saying that one can handle it more than the other. Just pointing out that optimal healing looks quite different between the two classes. When I run conjuror, I try to keep the tank around 60%-75% for safety. When I run astralogian, I allow them to nosedive and bounce them back up every thirty seconds, without breaking a sweat. It just comes down to the different class styles.
RE: The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales - Valence - 05-01-2016
Yeah!
RE: The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales - lunoc - 05-02-2016
It's such a drag doing Absolute Beginning Of The Game duties with inexperienced tanks who haven't even learned how The Video Game works yet.
I'm talking like level synced GLA in that one combined helmet/chest armor popping Sprint at every possible opportunity, circling every target in the dungeon like a buzzing gnat, and I mean EVERY SINGLE MOB IN THE DUNGEON, so my poor MNK ass can't get a decent positional attack off. I won't even start on expecting them to hold enmity because let's be honest if you think you're supposed to use Sprint and actually avoid attacks manually there's no hope for this run.
I'm not even mad at the newbies, they're probably just kids who're trying to have a good time but it just goes against everything I've learned about how to play this game smoothly. It's so weird to go from ilvl160+ content to bouncing my forehead off of clams on a completely different class I've decided to start leveling. It takes forever and it Sucks. And I can't even get mad because what kind of jerk would get mad at
it feels bad and i'll be happy when I get every job to 30 so I never have to willingly decide to go into sastasha/copperbell/tam-tara, etc. ever again.
ALSO another weird thing that happened to me was in haukke manor with a NIN, they dropped a limit break on that one trash group just before you head into the cellars, then said "Don't LB on trash folks" or something like that.
I asked if was having a stroke and one of the other people in that group said "lol u mean like ur stroking ur wiener" like ok thanks cool bye
it's one of the only times i've ever willingly left a duty it was so surreal and weird. In hindsight it was probably kinda shitty of me to do but I was having a weird head day I guess
anyway this has been my general summary of weird shit that put me off in ffxiv thx for reading bye im sorryÂ
RE: The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales - Roelle Riviere - 05-02-2016
(05-02-2016, 12:43 AM)lunoc Wrote: It's such a drag doing Absolute Beginning Of The Game duties with inexperienced tanks who haven't even learned how The Video Game works yet.
Just the other day I was getting started on Lancer in Sastasha and knew before the first pull it was gonna be New'tank McGee escorting us. You can spot them a mile away. Male midlander, full bronze armor, helmet still turned on. It's like those guys get stamped out in a factory or something.
Sure enough, he couldn't hold aggro over anything. But I didn't mind, really. I mean, it's Sastasha, right? Just do the thing!
What did bother me was how the healer and bard started being all condescending to him, telling him to go do the training ground and how he should do this and do that and just really making a commotion out of shaming the guy as if he didn't know he was new. I don't mind new players, and I don't mind bad players, but damn I cannot abide soft-fisted bullying.
So I stopped to type out, "Just flash 4-5 times and regen your mana at the end with riot combo, it'll be fine."Â I don't personally do it that way anymore unless there's a good Black Mage or Scholar in the group going ham, but it's a simple tactic that a brand new Paladin can use to do a decent job for any group makeup without feeling like a rube, and he wasn't waiting around for us nerds to stop nerding before he pulled the next group anyway.
Then the healer starts laying into me instead, telling me I'm an idiot, and flash isn't strong enough to hold aggro on its own, and you only need to flash 1-2 times tops, and all he'll do is run out of mana and lose aggro, and it's impossible to flash that much and regen all your mana without losing aggro, blah blah blah.
I'm just sitting there like, mothertrucker I've played Paladin before, probably more than you, and it works different when you're at minimum dungeon level and don't even have Rage of Halone! But all I said was, "If you're holding aggro with 1 flash, your dps is bad," because I was too busy stabbing to expound thoroughly upon the finer intricacies of level 15 Paladin skills, the probability of pug DPS target synchronization, mana management, and the regen potential of the between-the-pulls jog.
And the healer replies, "Maybe you're just so bad you have to flash that much ;)"
condescending winky face oh shit! wolfing out! bitch moon rising!
Typed out half a paragraph of tank-otaku-sperging, then I remembered I'm a grown-ass woman, deleted it, and just said "Whatever man, your penis is huge, I give up," and let it drop so I could focus on spamming Impulse Drive. So the healer spent the rest of the instance being passive-aggressively insulting to me and not healing when I inevitably pulled aggro.
Funnily enough, the Paladin never said a word and seemed to be ignoring chat entirely, thereby winning the encounter.
That event made me want to load up my little level 26 Paladin gear and go do a dungeon the right way.
When what to my wondering eyes did appear, but that very same Bard in her artifact gear!
So I went and did exactly what I'd told that new tank to do, spamming the hell out of flash on every pull way more than I needed to, just to show it could be done without losing aggro and that I could begin every pull on near full mana without any standing around required. In the end, the bard made nice and agreed that the smarmy healer was probably full of it. I'm not such a good person that I didn't feel just a little pumped over getting to put my money where my mouth was and come out on top on such a petty issue.
Sometimes you get lucky.
RE: The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales - Kellach Woods - 05-02-2016
So you roulette in Sephirot NM, and it's your first time. Congratulations, you hit the whammy!
You are a tank. What do you do?
a) You look at the other tank that's got 10k+ HP on you, is already in his tank stance, and knows what he's doing, figure he'll main tank it, switch to Sword Oath/Deliverance and try to follow the herd/wait for someone to explain the fight as much as possible.
b) Run in like a maniac, forsake any sort of pretension that you know what you're doing as far as general tanking goes, almost get killed by a tankbuster because your HP is so damn low, get sniped by a Yesod, get revived, try to wave your epeen around by taking Sephirot, die again, wipe the party then abandon duty because you couldn't sit and fucking listen.
* * *
This happened to me, I did A. We got 1 wipe and a clear.
This happened to another tank I was paired with. They did B, abandon after 1 wipe.
RE: The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales - Aaron - 05-02-2016
I think it's because a lot of times dps and healer just expect the tank to be a perfect bot and not make mistakes.
Granted sounds like the other tank was faulty and you need to get the return with the receipt but yeah.
RE: The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales - Kellach Woods - 05-03-2016
we had a new DPS, sure enough they died to a Yesod.
RE: The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales - lunoc - 05-03-2016
is it ok to vent in the vent tent about Your Own Damn Self?Â
I feel like I'm kind of a newbie despite the fact that I've got a Monk at level 60 and fully caught up on MSQ. Because it's like. The Only Class I even have past 50. My next highest is Paladin at 42. I have no real experience except with That One Weird Outlier DPS Class.
I almost never tank or heal unless I'm with friends that I know and it's been a long time since we've been able to get together in-game.
I find it so intimidating because the whole run basically depends on the tank and the healer having their shit together, like, Mentally? And I just feel like I don't have that most of the time.
How do yall get over that and just. Tank/Heal anyway? I know the rules for tanking, more or less, but even the most basic healing meta still kind of escapes me and I can never figure out how to even begin to arrange my hotbars for it. It also probably doesn't help that I've been a diehard controller user since day one despite being a PC player.
edit: im trying to make my posts less like horrible walls of text, im so sorry.
RE: The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales - Aaron - 05-03-2016
Tanking and healing require a specific mindset plus spacial awareness (both of which can be learned mind you)
However some people just can't deal with the cost of failure so they don't do it.
RE: The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales - Edgar - 05-03-2016
(05-03-2016, 01:36 PM)Aaron Wrote: Tanking and healing require a specific mindset plus spacial awareness (both of which can be learned mind you)
However some people just can't deal with the cost of failure so they don't do it.
It's because of that spacial awareness that I recommend no matter what role you settle on, everyone should try both tanking and healing. You notice more things when you have to keep an eye on the actions of 3-7 other people.
RE: The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales - Unnamed Mercenary - 05-03-2016
lunoc, take pride in using a controller! There are certain things we can do that the keyboard and mouse people cannot in a similar manner. (Like scroll through the party list and mob list).
I tend to arrange my crossbars in a certain way, regardless of whether it's for healing, DPS or tanking, just based on my play style.
Each healer and tank class works pretty differently, but they do share certain elements, like healers wanting swiftcast, protect, stoneskin, etc, and tanks wanting provoke, flash, etc.
Typically, I'll arrange my cooldowns in the same crossbars across all classes, so I remember that's where they go. Buffs will go in another section. Combo openers in another.
There are some neat tricks you can do with macros to make your crossbar better suited to your style, like having a tank stance or cleric stance change the active crossbar for skills best used with it.
Aside from the actual mechanics of setting up the class to play, Aaron and Edgar are correct that the different roles definitely feel different. A tank needs to have enmity for all mobs, a healer needs to make sure everyone's alive and well, a DPS needs to kill things without stealing them from the tank, etc.
For specific classes, there are definitely rotations or strategies you can do to optimize potential.
RE: The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales - McBeefâ„¢ - 05-03-2016
(05-03-2016, 01:36 PM)Aaron Wrote: Tanking and healing require a specific mindset plus spacial awareness (both of which can be learned mind you)All classes require such a mindset, if you raid.
However some people just can't deal with the cost of failure so they don't do it.
DPS have mechanics they need to do, and buffs/debuffs they need to put on players. The Machinist needs to watch everyone's mana and time disables. The Nin needs to cast goad for tp, etc etc.Â
I actually find tanking/healing easier than DPSing. I can't concentrate on a complicated rotation and still do raid mechanics. DPS is too hard for me!
RE: The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales - Aaron - 05-03-2016
(05-03-2016, 02:23 PM)McBeef© Wrote:Less than half of the population cares about raiding, So I don't factor that in.(05-03-2016, 01:36 PM)Aaron Wrote: Tanking and healing require a specific mindset plus spacial awareness (both of which can be learned mind you)All classes require such a mindset, if you raid.
However some people just can't deal with the cost of failure so they don't do it.
DPS have mechanics they need to do, and buffs/debuffs they need to put on players. The Machinist needs to watch everyone's mana and time disables. The Nin needs to cast goad for tp, etc etc.Â
I actually find tanking/healing easier than DPSing. I can't concentrate on a complicated rotation and still do raid mechanics. DPS is too hard for me!
RE: The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales - lunoc - 05-03-2016
I care about raiding in that I want to do every instance at least once but. Even at this point I still haven't touched labyrinth of the ancients or binding coil.
It feels like I'm missing out on something, but I can't imagine it being easy to scrounge up the people to do it nowadays considering it's not really like mechanically worth it or all that impressive to clear the early raids. or at least that's my impression anyway.
At the very least it'd be a very long queue during which I can't really do anything ingame. More time to watch shows on the side, I guess???