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+--- Thread: The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales (/showthread.php?tid=9312)
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RE: The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales - Warren Castille - 05-17-2016
I think it's based on experience. Killing lots of lower level enemies won't dent your armor, but doing a couple of expert dungeons will shred it like no one's business.
RE: The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales - McBeefâ„¢ - 05-17-2016
(05-17-2016, 02:26 PM)Warren Castille Wrote: I think it's based on experience. Killing lots of lower level enemies won't dent your armor, but doing a couple of expert dungeons will shred it like no one's business.Yeah something like that.
I remember back in the day when enemies in higher dungeons only gave you 10-15 gil at a time, and repairs would cost 2000+ gil. At the 2.0 launch, they actually expected people do do leves for money, so they could repair their gear for expert dungeons and raids.Â
Lol Yoshi-p please.
RE: The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales - Warren Castille - 05-17-2016
(05-17-2016, 02:31 PM)McBeef© Wrote:(05-17-2016, 02:26 PM)Warren Castille Wrote: I think it's based on experience. Killing lots of lower level enemies won't dent your armor, but doing a couple of expert dungeons will shred it like no one's business.Yeah something like that.
I remember back in the day when enemies in higher dungeons only gave you 10-15 gil at a time, and repairs would cost 2000+ gil. At the 2.0 launch, they actually expected people do do leves for money, so they could repair their gear for expert dungeons and raids.Â
Lol Yoshi-p please.
It was one of the most 1.0-styled things in the game. Enemies in dungeons originally didn't even drop money, did they? Or it was only humanoids and only like, 1-10 gil? The game's economy was pretty fucked until like, 2.08 because there wasn't any real way to make money, and repairs to keep playing were bleeding non-legacy servers dry.
It was an amazing time to play the game. People were doing sac-pull strategies through Wanderer's Palace because it did less damage to your armor than killing things did (oh also it meant you could clear it in around eight minutes, I'm sure that didn't hurt either). This was back before there was even a roulette mode, so capping your 300 tomes every week meant hemorrhaging out thousands of gil.
RE: The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales - Rising - 05-17-2016
(05-17-2016, 02:11 PM)Leih Wrote: Dear DPS I had in one of my groups today:Â Yes. I noticed a ton of spikey damage in that dungeon, but silly dps didn't go for adds and I ended up doing it. Much Cleric stance-dancing!
WHEN YOU ARE TOLD TO GO FOR THE ADDS, GO FOR THE ADDS!Â
Thank you.
Did a sunken temple twice today. First team was alright. Second team? Dear heavens... We got wiped. 5 times. In SUNKEN TEMPLE and no one was new to it! And I kept yelling, since I was the tank, for them to GO FOR THE DAMN ADDS in the last boss over and over again. There were so many of those bright rays that my eyes actually started to hurt, so I had to do tank and DPS. Ugh... I don't want to see how much armor damage I have to pay now...
But, I've noticed that if a tank marks the groups, most dps seem to pay attention to it. It does help. I've had some great tanks, and some terrible ones. So saying it's hard to manage aggro is relative. I've had exact same classes in the same dungeons, yet had one be amazing and one horrendous. But I guess the same should be said about everyone. The dps that stands there doing nothing, or worse, pulling adds can ruin a group as well as a bad healer or tank.
RE: The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales - McBeefâ„¢ - 05-17-2016
(05-17-2016, 02:38 PM)Warren Castille Wrote:(05-17-2016, 02:31 PM)McBeef© Wrote:(05-17-2016, 02:26 PM)Warren Castille Wrote: I think it's based on experience. Killing lots of lower level enemies won't dent your armor, but doing a couple of expert dungeons will shred it like no one's business.Yeah something like that.
I remember back in the day when enemies in higher dungeons only gave you 10-15 gil at a time, and repairs would cost 2000+ gil. At the 2.0 launch, they actually expected people do do leves for money, so they could repair their gear for expert dungeons and raids.Â
Lol Yoshi-p please.
It was one of the most 1.0-styled things in the game. Enemies in dungeons originally didn't even drop money, did they? Or it was only humanoids and only like, 1-10 gil? The game's economy was pretty fucked until like, 2.08 because there wasn't any real way to make money, and repairs to keep playing were bleeding non-legacy servers dry.
It was an amazing time to play the game. People were doing sac-pull strategies through Wanderer's Palace because it did less damage to your armor than killing things did (oh also it meant you could clear it in around eight minutes, I'm sure that didn't hurt either). This was back before there was even a roulette mode, so capping your 300 tomes every week meant hemorrhaging out thousands of gil.
Yeah, I miss certain aspects of it though. Like the dungeons were hard enough that some groups would actually fail and disband on things like demonwall.Â
The Relic weapons quests were short, but difficult. It was a different philosophy. Instead of getting the number of some token from 0 - 1000 or whatever, you just had to grind hard primals until you struggled your way through. It was just a grind that didn't have a ticking number next to it.Â
I'm not sure if people have just gotten better though. Sometimes it's rose tinted glasses, everyone was really bad at 2.0, including myself. Fights like Sephie hard seem like a cakewalk compared to something like titan hard, but that might just be because everyone is just better. I'm not sure if titan hard objectively had harder mechanics.
RE: The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales - Warren Castille - 05-17-2016
It's the slow burn. Titan HM was legendarily difficult because of a couple of reasons: First, the server state was fuckawful so lag was legitimately a killer if you weren't pre-moving and had the fight memorized. Second, gearscore didn't exist as a displayed number yet and a loooot of people were going in severely undergeared, thinking their AF was sufficient (it's not). It was also the first fight to have legitimately-punishing mechanics for everyone: Weights did immense damage to players, upwards of 50% of your HP depending on your class, Landslides perma-KO'd you off of a ledge, and mountain buster was still scary when your tanks only had 5-6k HP. It required intelligent mitigation and reflexes that nothing else in the game asked for by then, and while Ifrit and Garuda both had their challenges in their patterns, Titan just eroded parties past the point of being able to carry the dead because of how Tumult just lasted longer and longer.
New game, new mechanics, new players. What a wonderful time to be alive!
RE: The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales - Kilieit - 05-17-2016
Dear Costa FATE parties...
Please tank Cancer further up the beach.
That is all. Thank you.
RE: The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales - McBeefâ„¢ - 05-17-2016
(05-17-2016, 02:59 PM)Warren Castille Wrote: It's the slow burn. Titan HM was legendarily difficult because of a couple of reasons: First, the server state was fuckawful so lag was legitimately a killer if you weren't pre-moving and had the fight memorized. Second, gearscore didn't exist as a displayed number yet and a loooot of people were going in severely undergeared, thinking their AF was sufficient (it's not). It was also the first fight to have legitimately-punishing mechanics for everyone: Weights did immense damage to players, upwards of 50% of your HP depending on your class, Landslides perma-KO'd you off of a ledge, and mountain buster was still scary when your tanks only had 5-6k HP. It required intelligent mitigation and reflexes that nothing else in the game asked for by then, and while Ifrit and Garuda both had their challenges in their patterns, Titan just eroded parties past the point of being able to carry the dead because of how Tumult just lasted longer and longer.I wonder how we would have done with something like Sephirot or Ravana hard back then?
New game, new mechanics, new players. What a wonderful time to be alive!
Would it be the fight everyone thinks back on with a mixture of fondness and ptsd? It's sort of interesting that unlike most games, MMO's are often a limited time experience. People who missed say, first coil, can never really have that experience again.
It's gone forever.Â
Appreciate the game today (including the bad pugs), it will be a different one tomorrow
RE: The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales - Warren Castille - 05-18-2016
I also wonder how the game would be different if we'd gotten something more complex over Titan as he existed. I really do think that Titan HM was the perfect storm of prior experience and sudden demands, though: Much less telegraphing and much more lethal circumstances, especially when it came to dodging Weight of the Land on old server infrastructure. Ifrit charges broke targeting and let you scan the outside for where it would be and fire plumes followed the basic in/out pattern. Garuda's Mistral Scream also breaks targeting for a jump and follows the same pattern every time, and other than handling the sisters and not Wicked Wheeling the entire raid the fight was a much less crazy dance.
Titan had a pretty intense Heart Phase since the lethal mechanics don't stop for it, plus dealing with jails and losing either healing or DPS, plus healers needing to be ready to erase the debuff associated, plus stomps, plus landslides, plus bombs. Post-heart you've got 60% of the fight left and everything intensifies, and stacking weights (the most common method to know where to run) meant not dodging on time was an instagib for anyone standing in the puddle. Add in additional bomb patterns and it was very easy to not see the rotation Titan goes through, because you're constantly on edge trying to not die to the next thing. Now it's all old hat, and we know all of his telegraphs or the order he uses abilities, but he was one hell of a breaking point for folks to get ready for Coil.
That's not even going into the first encounter in Coil. No Caduceus, but the first encounter. Now you had mandatory silences that punished you so hard for missing them, on top of the rest of the song and dance...
I think 2.0's endgame had a decent curve to bumping up difficulty. It could have been smoother, sure, I do kind of fondly remember finally busting those barriers and getting clears. It was a lot different than the assumed HM wins we have now in the story (though I will say the Bismarck encounter brought back the familiar feeling in the first few weeks of the expansion).
* Warren Castille sips lemonade in his rocking chair.
RE: The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales - Virella - 05-18-2016
Bismarck? I thought Ravana was a massive pain in the ass to clear it the first time. Domri and I had to beg Barengar to come tank it with us, because goddamn, tanks who derped wiped the whole group in his aoe cone :l
RE: The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales - Warren Castille - 05-18-2016
(05-18-2016, 08:40 AM)Virella Wrote: Bismarck? I thought Ravana was a massive pain in the ass to clear it the first time. Domri and I had to beg Barengar to come tank it with us, because goddamn, tanks who derped wiped the whole group in his aoe cone :l
Yeah, I'm a tank. My problems usually stem from DPS who don't know their priorities from a hole in the wall or people who couldn't activate the barrier to stop the island from getting wrecked.
Ravana butterflies were the only part DPS could fuck up, outside of otherwise being bad at avoiding damage. Tanks who eat all three parts of his dumb spinny cleave grate my patience, though.
RE: The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales - Aaron - 05-18-2016
It's the simple mechanics that fuck people up for some odd reason.
RE: The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales - Warren Castille - 05-18-2016
(05-18-2016, 09:08 AM)Aaron Wrote: It's the simple mechanics that fuck people up for some odd reason.
Case in point: Got Dragon's Neck (with Graeham!) in Trial Roulette yesterday. Half of the DPS were all Mentor-tagged and nobody absorbed water as an imp or stopped gigasnort from going off.
I swear to the Twelve that tag is just a warning sign, like bright colors in nature.
RE: The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales - S'imba - 05-18-2016
I think dps fucking up mechanics has a lot to do with people being lazy, or not wanting to hurt their dps. So they ignore mechanics or expect someone else to do them. Though I guess I'm a little biased from dps who rush ahead to pull before the last enemy in a mob is dead to keep their dps up.
RE: The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales - Warren Castille - 05-18-2016
Monks are the only DPS I don't mind running ahead to maintain stacks. Everyone else should know better than to pop cooldowns at the end of a pack!