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+--- Thread: The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales (/showthread.php?tid=9312)
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RE: The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales - Kilieit - 08-04-2016
I-I forget. Until I need to use Dark Dance or whatever it's called. And then I turn it on.
And then it drops off when I hit 0 MP. And I forget. Again.
This is why I don't tank for strangers. OTL
RE: The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales - Kibu - 08-04-2016
Had an exceptionally awful Bard in AV last night. They were at-level, woefully undergeared (about 10+ levels below on all items), and I'm pretty sure the only skill they bothered to use was the first attack skill you get when you learn the class. In the first boss, they didn't cleanse the poison - they got to 5 stacks and I had to actually, you know... heal the tank... so I couldn't spam-heal them and they died. And their immediate response after they die is "Um, heals??" as if it's my fault they don't follow the damn mechanic despite the tank's pre-boss 'everyone knows this, right?' check.
(Reasonably sure that their death wasn't my fault, given everyone who actually followed mechanics stayed alive. Please correct me if I'm wrong. That comment instantly raised my healer salt meter to 9000 though.)
They did no AOE the entire dungeon, stole fruits from the tank during the final boss, and said/did absolutely nothing when given a few gentle pointers/requests from the tank and other DPS who both had max-level BRD class on their character sheets. Before the tank left they said "You are the worst bard I have ever seen" and I wholly agree.
RE: The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales - Alexia Peregris - 08-04-2016
(08-04-2016, 04:12 PM)Aaron Wrote: Why do DRK refuse to use Dark side pre 50? Or even pre 60?Th- this is actually a thing that happens? How?
It's not difficult to keep your mp, I kept DS up the time when I leveled it. But every time I do a roulette for the tomes I get a DRK that for some reason refuses to stack DS with Grit thus they aren't holding aggro unless their spamming unleash until their mp is zero.
Do these guys realize Darkside locks about half their CDs when they don't use it?
I literally started leveling DRK a week ago, saw Darkside and said "Wow that's obviously really useful and important, I should always have that on." MP is easy to regen at first, and only gets easier as you level up; by Qarn you have Blood Price so if you use that it's nearly impossible to lose MP, unless you're spamming Unleash like an idiot. And even if you don't use the three skills that require DS at 50 (I think it's only three skills at that point), it still increases damage by 15%, which makes Grit usable in general. It's literally the most important thing you have in your whole arsenal, especially if you're not tanking.Â
I suppose it's part of the same deal as bards who don't use Wanderer's Minuet or Machinists who don't use Gauss Barrel. I see way too much of that.
RE: The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales - Aaron - 08-04-2016
(08-04-2016, 06:28 PM)Alexia Peregris Wrote:Yes it's ridiculous.(08-04-2016, 04:12 PM)Aaron Wrote: Why do DRK refuse to use Dark side pre 50? Or even pre 60?Th- this is actually a thing that happens? How?
It's not difficult to keep your mp, I kept DS up the time when I leveled it. But every time I do a roulette for the tomes I get a DRK that for some reason refuses to stack DS with Grit thus they aren't holding aggro unless their spamming unleash until their mp is zero.
Do these guys realize Darkside locks about half their CDs when they don't use it?
I literally started leveling DRK a week ago, saw Darkside and said "Wow that's obviously really useful and important, I should always have that on." MP is easy to regen at first, and only gets easier as you level up; by Qarn you have Blood Price so if you use that it's nearly impossible to lose MP, unless you're spamming Unleash like an idiot. And even if you don't use the three skills that require DS at 50 (I think it's only three skills at that point), it still increases damage by 15%, which makes Grit usable in general. It's literally the most important thing you have in your whole arsenal, especially if you're not tanking.Â
I suppose it's part of the same deal as bards who don't use Wanderer's Minuet or Machinists who don't use Gauss Barrel. I see way too much of that.
Was in expert earlier, I'm a ilvl 220 NIN and I was ripping aggro of the DRK so much he actually started marking targets halfway through. I go "The reason you're losing aggro is because you're not doing enough damage without Dark side, please pop it."
I get the reply
"I know what I'm doing. Get off my back."
Ok... second boss of Hullbreaker I RIP aggro half the fight and he STILL runs out of mp because of unleash spam with no dark side. I'm like, DUDE JUST POP IT IT'S LIKE THE MOST IMPORTANT BUFF YOU HAVE.
Nope. I checked his character sheet and low and behold fucker hadn't even hit level 2 on either WAR or PLD but had a 60 NIN and BLM.
Needless to say my comm went to the healer. If you're going to level a DRK probably because it's 30 levels quicker to max, at least put fucking provoke in your skill set.
RE: The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales - Alexia Peregris - 08-04-2016
(08-04-2016, 06:57 PM)Aaron Wrote:Wow, I feel bad for you, most of my DRKs I get when I'm not tanking know what they're doing. Like I said, I just started getting DRK up, and since I hadn't tanked very much before I made sure to get PLD and WAR up for cross class abilities, seeing as how that's just common sense and all that. You literally can't tank properly in a lot of higher level trials and dungeons without Provoke, it's essential. I thought the worst of people not knowing how to tank that picked up DRK were long gone, but apparently not.Â(08-04-2016, 06:28 PM)Alexia Peregris Wrote:Yes it's ridiculous.(08-04-2016, 04:12 PM)Aaron Wrote: Why do DRK refuse to use Dark side pre 50? Or even pre 60?Th- this is actually a thing that happens? How?
It's not difficult to keep your mp, I kept DS up the time when I leveled it. But every time I do a roulette for the tomes I get a DRK that for some reason refuses to stack DS with Grit thus they aren't holding aggro unless their spamming unleash until their mp is zero.
Do these guys realize Darkside locks about half their CDs when they don't use it?
I literally started leveling DRK a week ago, saw Darkside and said "Wow that's obviously really useful and important, I should always have that on." MP is easy to regen at first, and only gets easier as you level up; by Qarn you have Blood Price so if you use that it's nearly impossible to lose MP, unless you're spamming Unleash like an idiot. And even if you don't use the three skills that require DS at 50 (I think it's only three skills at that point), it still increases damage by 15%, which makes Grit usable in general. It's literally the most important thing you have in your whole arsenal, especially if you're not tanking.Â
I suppose it's part of the same deal as bards who don't use Wanderer's Minuet or Machinists who don't use Gauss Barrel. I see way too much of that.
Was in expert earlier, I'm a ilvl 220 NIN and I was ripping aggro of the DRK so much he actually started marking targets halfway through. I go "The reason you're losing aggro is because you're not doing enough damage without Dark side, please pop it."
I get the reply
"I know what I'm doing. Get off my back."
Ok... second boss of Hullbreaker I RIP aggro half the fight and he STILL runs out of mp because of unleash spam with no dark side. I'm like, DUDE JUST POP IT IT'S LIKE THE MOST IMPORTANT BUFF YOU HAVE.
Nope. I checked his character sheet and low and behold fucker hadn't even hit level 2 on either WAR or PLD but had a 60 NIN and BLM.
Needless to say my comm went to the healer. If you're going to level a DRK probably because it's 30 levels quicker to max, at least put fucking provoke in your skill set.
And I mean, it's probably the easiest tank to learn. There's really no excuse.
RE: The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales - Valence - 08-05-2016
I can understand the absolute distate for Minuet and Gauss Barrel - I mean, I absolute loathe those things - but if you don't want to use them, then do as I do: don't play the classes.
(08-04-2016, 01:40 PM)Gegenji Wrote: ... Though, I don't know if that is as bad as the Trial roulette I got yesterday. Got Steps, and one of the tanks was AFK for THE ENTIRE TRIAL. Like, literally, I died due to... something or another, I don't quite remember (likely got stepped on because I was dotting and not paying attention as squishy SMN). Spawn and notice the PLD is just... standing there, looking forward to where the boss would've been at the very start. I head back in, but notice that he never moves for the remainder of the Trial either.
Man, I wish I could AFK for an entire roulette and get away with it.
Most tanks are douches when it comes to Steps of Faith. They are part of the reason why I hate that trial so much. They don't even bother getting aggro. You spend your time dying to one thing or another for no special reason. Especially when healing.
But then again, what are heals for anyway in such a trial. You can die and respaw all the time. Glorious mechanics design.
If you actually died for good here, maybe people would take more care of what they are doing.
RE: The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales - Gegenji - 08-05-2016
I've found the "best" strat back in the day with Steps was to... well, basically have a healer as a tank. They stand up front between the boss' front legs and spam heals to get heal aggro on all the little mobs. They all run up to hit you, cannons tear them apart. Alternately, a tank can stand with them and spam Flash/Overpower/Unleash when the mobs run up and tank them while the cannons tear them apart.
This leaves the other tank and healer basically free to be on said cannons, so all the DPS can focus on the boss. This used to be the strat everyone used for a while after this pattern was figured out. However, with the advent of HW, it seems everyone has just... forgotten it. It's a shame, since it meant having the Trial done by the second barrier.
RE: The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales - Kellach Woods - 08-05-2016
(08-05-2016, 03:26 AM)Valence Wrote: But then again, what are heals for anyway in such a trial. You can die and respaw all the time. Glorious mechanics design.We're talking about the game that made 2 tank classes without a taunt being baseline.
RE: The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales - Xenotale - 08-07-2016
(08-04-2016, 05:32 PM)Kibu Wrote: *Snip about damn AV*AV. It's always AV. We all have AV horror stories.
My worst AV was particularly special. It began with a PLD in full AF1 gear who refused to use flash more than once. Respectfully, members of our party tried our best to give tips. She acted thankful, going on to say how other pugs treated her like shit and that everyone is so mean.
But then she didn't follow any of our advice, at all. She continued to pull way too much, refuse to use flash most of the time, and generally fail to keep mobs off of the healer. I don't remember if the PLD used Shield Oath either, but I do remember that I had to spam Physick as a BLM to supplement the healer's heals as otherwise the healer couldn't keep up.
I also remember the healer getting mad at us DPS for dying on the first boss. Because he refused to heal anyone but herself and sometimes the tank. We kept our stacks below 2, but the damage that's done up until we use morbol fruit isn't going anywhere. It was still early on in the dungeon, so I hadn't thought to use Physick yet.
Anyway, so we died, and he refused to raise us. So we ended up waiting for the PLD and (I think it was a scholar) kill the first boss. This was before the whole Vitality = Damage for tanks, so this paladin did just about as little damage as you could imagine.
The dungeon went on like that, wiping continually on mobs. We managed to get past the coincounter, but on the way to the last boss we ran out of dungeon time.
RE: The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales - Edgar - 08-07-2016
(08-07-2016, 03:13 PM)Xenotale Wrote:(08-04-2016, 05:32 PM)Kibu Wrote: *Snip about damn AV*AV. It's always AV. We all have AV horror stories.
AV Horror Stories, you say? Well, then...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qTrgCWpLlM
Submitted for the approval of the Midnight Society...
I was leveling up my MNK through dungeon runs, so naturally, I had to go through AV. We loaded in and approached the first chamber with our healer, second dps, and our PLD tank. PLD wobbled around aimlessly like something out of Twitch Plays Pokemon for a bit, then ram right up to the mobs. He didn't use shield toss, he didn't use flash. He just ran around grabbing aggro that lasts about five seconds from about three trash piles, including the first toad, then spams JUST Rage of Halone with no combo on each enemy, as if compelled to believe this will actually work. After inevitably wiping, I decided that maybe I should explain how this game actually works to him, and so I did. He attempted to do what I commanded about twice, each time dying to the mobs that we then carefully mopped up for him.
We made it to the boss, and, surprising no one, he ran up to the boss, flashed, and then RoH spammed again, but thanks to the efforts of our healer, he does not die, nor I when I inevitably pulled all the aggro off of him.Â
We beat the boss, and I asked the group if we're willing to continue to try and teach this lummox who somehow made it past the Brayflox idiot wall, or if we should just kick him. Shocking all, he decided for us, and left.
Having gone through that, I never want to hear that I'm a toxic player with no patience ever again.
RE: The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales - Kibu - 08-08-2016
(08-07-2016, 03:57 PM)Edgar Wrote:(08-07-2016, 03:13 PM)Xenotale Wrote:(08-04-2016, 05:32 PM)Kibu Wrote: *Snip about damn AV*AV. It's always AV. We all have AV horror stories.
AV Horror Stories, you say? Well, then...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qTrgCWpLlM
Submitted for the approval of the Midnight Society...
I was leveling up my MNK through dungeon runs, so naturally, I had to go through AV. We loaded in and approached the first chamber with our healer, second dps, and our PLD tank. PLD wobbled around aimlessly like something out of Twitch Plays Pokemon for a bit, then ram right up to the mobs. He didn't use shield toss, he didn't use flash. He just ran around grabbing aggro that lasts about five seconds from about three trash piles, including the first toad, then spams JUST Rage of Halone with no combo on each enemy, as if compelled to believe this will actually work. After inevitably wiping, I decided that maybe I should explain how this game actually works to him, and so I did. He attempted to do what I commanded about twice, each time dying to the mobs that we then carefully mopped up for him.
We made it to the boss, and, surprising no one, he ran up to the boss, flashed, and then RoH spammed again, but thanks to the efforts of our healer, he does not die, nor I when I inevitably pulled all the aggro off of him.Â
We beat the boss, and I asked the group if we're willing to continue to try and teach this lummox who somehow made it past the Brayflox idiot wall, or if we should just kick him. Shocking all, he decided for us, and left.
Having gone through that, I never want to hear that I'm a toxic player with no patience ever again.
Fuck AV with a rusty pitchfork, seriously. Just yikes.
RE: The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales - Kilieit - 08-11-2016
hey guys listen i've got a little personality quiz for all of you
if a baby GLD says, at the beginning of copperbell NM, that they're fairly new to tanking and apologise for any mistakes they make, do you:
A) let them make their own pulls
B) run ahead of them constantly and start DPSing before they're even within Shield Lob range
A) follow the kill order they're marking, which generally puts AoE-using mobs first, then most damaging to least damaging
B) purposefully ignore the kill order and go for whatever order you feel like, usually starting with the mob that deals least damage and has the most health
A) attack the same target as the rest of the group, because you're following kill order
B) after they give up marking a kill order, ensure every member of the group is DPSing a different target
A) run towards the tank if you're being gnawed on by something
B) stay rooted to the spot if something starts eating you or, if possible, run out of line of sight of the tank
A) when asked to correct simple mistakes, apologise and strive to improve
B) when asked to correct simple mistakes, claim you're doing it all on purpose to "teach them to be a better tank"
if you answered mostly A, you're a better group member than the ones i just partied with.
because protip: at low levels, Flash is meant to deal with the aggro gained on mobs, by the healer, through healing the tank. maybe the aggro from a few DoTs spread around. not the aggro gained on mobs by every single person in the party deciding they don't feel like sharing today and going all-out on a different goddamn monster.
like, yeah, i'm gonna struggle to keep aggro if you ignore my kill order! that's why it's there! "learn to use provoke," i hear those B-answerers out there cry - you don't get it until level 22 as GLD and copperbell syncs from 20.
jeez.
RE: The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales - Valence - 08-11-2016
Even a DRK at that level without grit and all might face troubles to keep aggro if the DPS are dealing enough damage and spreading it all over the mobs.
A GLD with flash? lol.
RE: The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales - Knislinge - 08-11-2016
So you're a WHM, and you happen to be in a group full of new people for your Castrum Meridianum run.
Do NOT:
- Run in front of the group without the tank(s)
- Explain the cannons after they've been destroyed
- Bum around in cleric stance 90% of the time and expect the newbie WHM to heal the entire party, and you, because "I'm doing dps"
- Seriously. The guy let himself die and told me to heal/res him. More than once. Surely the dps of a WHM can't be that precious.
I just, ech. I don't know if that's supposed to be an easy trial, and he was trying to explain things at some points, but oh my god. I've never been so stressed healing anything. This was worse than the time I tried to do Titan with lag.
If you're that eager to speedrun, just drop group and hope the queue puts you with non-noobs.
RE: The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales - Valence - 08-11-2016
Incidentally... WhM is worth 2 DPS roles easy on Meridianum, just because of holy spamm on such huge and squishy groups of mobs. I'm always top DPS by far on those runs as a WhM.
Doesn't mean you have to be a douche about it though. Most healers are cancer on Meridianum and Praetorium runs unfortunately.
I have had the pleasure to deal with similar WhM (as a WhM myself), that just thought they could just aggro everything instead of the tanks, run all around and complain when they die.