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+--- Thread: The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales (/showthread.php?tid=9312)
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RE: The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales - Kage - 12-17-2014
(12-17-2014, 04:07 PM)Thaarus Wrote: On the note of the Diabolos doors, apparently that is not even a mechanic people bother with so much anymore.Yes if you have the DPS is good.
Please ask your healer if they are up to it/willing/can handle it groups T_T
I got my sch to 50 after ST loot lockout was dropped and Brayflox HM moved to High Level. My SCH is nicely geared, I can probably raid with it. But I'd never healed speedruns. Especially Brayflox.
Queue Kage: OMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGUDIDN'TSAYANYTHINGABOUTTHISSSSSSS
No deaths but thank you I am quite awake now.
RE: The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales - Gegenji - 12-17-2014
(12-17-2014, 04:07 PM)Thaarus Wrote: On the note of the Diabolos doors, apparently that is not even a mechanic people bother with so much anymore. I can see why, with dps checks on people running quickly, but alas, I was met with a sea of profanities when I has bothered to go along as I was used to.
That's also a bit annoying.
Yeah, that must be a relatively new thing, because someone mentioned just DPS rushing the boss last time I got that instance. I was healing, so I just went "Sure, go for it. I'm just gonna have a door ready just in case." The big spell started and he wasn't close enough to death yet, so I took us under and we killed him before the second one.
And yeah, speedrun healing basically devolves into spamming ALL THE HEALS OH GOD STOP MELTING. It's why I started getting my three Aetherflow stacks at the start while doing initial buffs. I like having my panic button.
RE: The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales - Warren Castille - 12-17-2014
It's been possible to kill Diabolos before the second Omen since that content was current, but I wouldn't bet on a PUG being able to do it. Mostly everyone should have the HP to survive the first Omen now and he should generally be dead before the second.
Edit: Diabolos is stunnable, so a wily one should be able to keep Nightmares from going off and slowing DPS. It's still fun on the healer during/after that first Omen, though. I don't envy you guys.
RE: The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales - Melkire - 12-17-2014
You mean I actually get to see the Giant Ink Ball of Doom and Gloom now instead of staring at the floor? Thank God.
That always pissed me off about Diabolos, especially after first seeing the trailer for it. I was all OMG SO PRETTY and then you get to do the actual fight and the door mechanic more or less forces your camera to the floor so you can't see his beautiful ultimate attack. ; A ;
RE: The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales - Kage - 12-17-2014
(12-17-2014, 04:17 PM)Gegenji Wrote: And yeah, speedrun healing basically devolves into spamming ALL THE HEALS OH GOD STOP MELTING. It's why I started getting my three Aetherflow stacks at the start while doing initial buffs. I like having my panic button.I try to do a reasonable job of using aetherflow stacks and using it on CD.
Except, I've also learned where some big pulls are in Snowcloak. Or when speshul tanks insist on pulling the whole last room before Fenrir and DON'T STUN THE STUPID HARRIERS AND JUST LET THEM ALL BE SCREAMING PIECES OF SHIT THAT HURT OHGODWHY WITHOUT SAYING THEY WILL
I forget is it Stun the Nightmare or Silence the Nightmare? I remember it being a difference. It's Stun?
RE: The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales - Oscare - 12-17-2014
Those "must have on farm" parties on like, day 1 of the release of a piece of content.
RE: The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales - Melkire - 12-17-2014
(12-17-2014, 04:31 PM)Kage Wrote:(12-17-2014, 04:17 PM)Gegenji Wrote: And yeah, speedrun healing basically devolves into spamming ALL THE HEALS OH GOD STOP MELTING. It's why I started getting my three Aetherflow stacks at the start while doing initial buffs. I like having my panic button.I try to do a reasonable job of using aetherflow stacks and using it on CD.
Except, I've also learned where some big pulls are in Snowcloak. Or when speshul tanks insist on pulling the whole last room before Fenrir and DON'T STUN THE STUPID HARRIERS AND JUST LET THEM ALL BE SCREAMING PIECES OF SHIT THAT HURT OHGODWHY WITHOUT SAYING THEY WILL
I forget is it Stun the Nightmare or Silence the Nightmare? I remember it being a difference. It's Stun?
Nightmare (the one that puts you to sleep) needs to be stunned, yes. Never tried silencing it. Everything else you can dodge (Gravity Orbs by not being anywhere near where they get placed, Ultimate Terror by moving into melee range or waaaaay the hell away from Diabolos).
He builds stun resistance after three or four stuns, IIRC.
RE: The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales - Kage - 12-17-2014
Jah I wanted to make sure I remember trying Spirits Within a lot or Shield Bash and realizing stupidly later that it didn't work. So Stun Nightmare~
So yeah.. don't try silencing cause it don't work. Awesome when it's already built up a resistance before the second nightmare. Lookin at you melee.
RE: The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales - Atoli - 12-17-2014
(12-17-2014, 04:06 PM)Ryoko Wrote: As a healer, I see some horrifying things that most people wouldn't even notice. However, despite the potatoes and assholes I've come across in this game, it's been pretty tame compared the the endless nightmare that was PuGing in WoW. There were some people in WoW so terrible that I still remember them years later.
Alas, World of Warcraft. There I played god as the healer, and refused to tank pulls as a tank (just like Madda. High five!)
Last night I had a group when I was leveling my White Mage which were very, very nice and friendly, even chatty, but the tank was a tweensy bit squishy and the summoner was... pretty clueless, but always open to suggestions, so that made up for it! (Except in the last boss fight.)
So we were doing Brayflox normal, and the entire dungeon I had been really gently and kindly (if I may say so myself) reminding folks in general to avoid breaking sleeps if they can, as well as attack what the tank is attacking. Last boss. Summoner keeps standing in the death beam, tank keeps dragging the boss through poison and healing him. We really don't have the DPS to finish him off with one dead and the tank dragging him through poison or even standing in it himself. It -always- ended with myself and the fantastic dragoon being the last alive, struggling to make it count before wiping entirely. After the second wipe, the Summoner starts realising she shouldn't stand in the death beam ... and instead lets her pet die repeatedly in poison. This wouldn't be much of an issue if she hadn't spent the entire fight summoning her pet which kept dying only to be summoned again into poison to die again. My struggle was pretty real. She may as well have been dead because she wasn't helping us any.
I gently asked her to not summon the pet if it died and continue DPSing. Well, she stood in poison for a good minute and a half, and eventually I decided I -needed- to focus the tank and she died. Always ended with the dragoon and myself. When we resurrected and ran back, we noticed the summoner was AFK, and so... vote dismissed her as AFK. We then had a level 40-something black mage come in and -wreck- the boss. It was fantastic. That dragoon was such a champ, too, so I gave her a commendation at the end. She deserved it so badly.
RE: The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales - Zyrusticae - 12-17-2014
(12-17-2014, 04:31 PM)Kage Wrote: Or when speshul tanks insist on pulling the whole last room before Fenrir and DON'T STUN THE STUPID HARRIERS AND JUST LET THEM ALL BE SCREAMING PIECES OF SHIT THAT HURT OHGODWHY WITHOUT SAYING THEY WILLThis is sooooo annoying. Not only do they hurt more but they take three times as long to kill after they transform. I shouldn't need to point out to veteran players that they need to stun these things!
Worst part is I play THE ONLY PHYSICAL DPS CLASS WITHOUT A STUN so I can't make up for their slack. How vexing!
RE: The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales - Melkire - 12-17-2014
(12-17-2014, 04:41 PM)A Wrote: So we were doing Brayflox normal, and the entire dungeon I had been really gently and kindly (if I may say so myself) reminding folks in general to avoid breaking sleeps if they can, as well as attack what the tank is attacking.
This reminds me. No offense to you, but I hate it when casters put mobs to sleep in XIV. Hate. With a passion that cannot be put into words.
The only reason to put something to sleep is to alleviate pressure on the healer. In most instances (read: dungeons), that should be absolutely unnecessary. If the healer needs less incoming damage on the tank, then either the tank is undergeared or unskilled, the healer is undergeared or unskilled, or both.
No, the "well, if the healer has to heal less then they can DPS more so you get through the pull sooner" argument holds no water in the case of Sleep, because with Sleep you cannot reapply DoTs without waking the mob, you cannot AoE the slept mobs, you have no choice but to focus-fire down the mobs that AREN'T asleep. Trust me when I say that outgoing damage from the weaponskills and DoTs of a tank and two DPS on the entire pull is going to outweight the damage the healer can put out on a single mob. Sleep doesn't speed runs along, IT SLOWS THEM DOWN. Which makes sense, because - again - the entire point is to alleviate pressure on the healer.
Are there edge cases? Yes. See the second boss (the drake) of Brayflox Normal. You sleep the boss until you've killed the add. I'm sure there are other edge cases, most of which I can't remember at the moment and many more I'm sure that I'm not even aware exist.
THAT SAID, MAGES. PLEASE. FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT IS GOOD AND HOLY. QUIT SLEEPING THINGS.
EDIT: Not to mention that every cast of Sleep is a cast that could have gone towards DPS. Goddamnit.
RE: The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales - Atoli - 12-17-2014
(12-17-2014, 04:52 PM)Melkire Wrote:(12-17-2014, 04:41 PM)A Wrote: So we were doing Brayflox normal, and the entire dungeon I had been really gently and kindly (if I may say so myself) reminding folks in general to avoid breaking sleeps if they can, as well as attack what the tank is attacking.
The only reason to put something to sleep is to alleviate pressure on the healer. In most instances (read: dungeons), that should be absolutely unnecessary. If the healer needs less incoming damage on the tank, then either the tank is undergeared or unskilled, the healer is undergeared or unskilled, or both.
Yeah, I definitely recognise that sleeping really hinders DPS, which is why I don't normally do it unless the tank is pretty squishy and the lowest level requirement for the dungeon, which he was XD He was melting when he had more than -two- mobs on him, so I was really throwing sleeps around. We actually wiped once on trash because he pulled two packs by accident and even though I slept half, he just melted in seconds under them. He had all whites, which really wasn't helping any. :/
RE: The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales - cuideag - 12-17-2014
Lately, it's been tanks who pull with Provoke. And then tanks who continue to pull with Provoke - who wait for it to come off cooldown before they pull again - despite being advised against it because yeah it doesn't work the way they probably think it does.
RE: The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales - Val - 12-17-2014
(12-17-2014, 01:50 PM)Warren Castille Wrote: OH, THAT REMINDS ME. NINS WHO DROP THE AOE ON SINGLE TARGET ENEMIES.
As a NIN, my heart breaks anytime I see this.
I also got into a pug with a NIN that never kept up the attack speed buff on herself and every mudra cast had a noticeable 2 second delay. It was aaawfuuuul. The healer had higher threat than this person did the entire dungeon.
RE: The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales - Kage - 12-17-2014
It's not terrible but it makes me laugh.
Whenever a NIN forgets to put poison on.
Especially when it's T9 farming. xD
EDIT: At some point I'm going to make a macro like the old Shield Oath ones.