(07-03-2015, 05:05 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote: No need to rub it in, so mean T_T.

(07-03-2015, 05:05 PM)Kellach Woods Wrote: Can I vent that STR spec is stupid and trivializes a whole subset of right-side gear?

(07-03-2015, 05:02 PM)Sounsyy Wrote:

(07-03-2015, 04:25 PM)Enla Wrote: after seeing Virella's post I'm starting to wonder if it might not be because they're taking STR gear to fill in gaps while leveling.

Guarantee you it has nothing to do with STR gear. But it does have everything to do with the amount of buffs your tanks are using. Plain and simple. Having 2.5k more HP is only 2.5k more HP that you have to heal back cuz STR tanks and VIT tanks are gonna take the same amount of damage. But a tank that properly rotates his/her cooldowns will never have an issue short of a legitimately inattentive healer. At least with STR your tanks can actually assist with self-healing, whereas that VIT tank it's 100% up to you to do all the work to heal.

Another possibility is slow DPS. Which isn't necessarily because of bad DPS but possibly because DPS are undergeared for whatever raid or are still figuring out the nuances of their new post-50 job. I can't fault them for that, but if DPS is low, you can bet your tank's ass the tank and the healer are going to notice. In these new dungeons, it's not just a matter of inconvenience, it's a matter of life and death, because if a healer starts running low on MP every pull just because it's taking so long to kill a mob, my god.

Which leads into my vent of the day. Bards that are using their new Wanderer's Minuet 100% of the time now. Stahp! It's hurting your dps. I, as a WAR, should not be top DPS in any 4-man party.

(07-03-2015, 05:15 PM)Sounsyy Wrote: Not my fault they detached VIT from DEF's stat modifier. (Even though VIT was still pretty useless in 1.0.) I'm still pretty pissed Parry-Strength no longer has STR as a stat modifier. Then maybe Raw Intuition would've been a halfway decent buff or DRK could've had more mitigation...

(07-03-2015, 05:16 PM)Rahal Wrote: There's a time and a place to go full STR on a tank.

(07-03-2015, 11:48 PM)Caspar Wrote:

(07-03-2015, 05:16 PM)Rahal Wrote: There's a time and a place to go full STR on a tank.

And that time is ALWAYS. Mo deeps.

I wouldn't say Vit is useless. I see it as similar to accuracy. Past a certain point, it serves no purpose, as you will survive everything you're hit with and you can use less and less Vit if you use cooldowns optimally. After a certain point in T13 or whatever, you WILL survive that Akh Morn and even the potential AA crit afterward, and then there's no use in having more HP, in my opinion. It is an unfortunate characteristic to have for a main stat that will probably not go away unless they change the parry system immensely and make it the main stat or something, keeping Vit as a secondary. I don't know how they'd do this; I'd just like parry to be better.

I don't like to complain in here. I think though that one thing I would prefer is that people don't woundlick quite so much. I've been kicked from parties twice now for pretty innocent, obvious advice like "please use buffs" and "please help burn x." In both of these instances, it was due to a healer or tank that wasd being mentored on the fly by the other two party members, who wouldn't suffer any criticism towards their stagnating friend, becoming a worse player by the minute the more they sheltered them from positive advice for fear of bruised egos.

(07-03-2015, 05:16 PM)Rahal Wrote: There's a time and a place to go full STR on a tank. Main tanking a fight is not the right time or place.

(07-04-2015, 04:21 AM)Sounsyy Wrote:

(07-03-2015, 05:16 PM)Rahal Wrote: There's a time and a place to go full STR on a tank. Main tanking a fight is not the right time or place.

Maybe this topic deserves its own separate thread, but the time is always and the place is everywhere. Main tanking is no exception. Vitality, as it stands currently, does not offer any tank anything worthwhile in the grand scheme of content in this game. Whereas STR can be used to great effect in every situation.


VIT does not increase mitigation in any way. VIT increases HP. 1 point of VIT at Lv60 equals 20.5 HP. This means, that the effective difference between a VIT spec'd tank and a STR spec'd tank is exactly 717 HP versus 280 Determination (DTR). What is 717 HP? Nothing. Less than one hit from a Heavensward dungeon mob. So let's take a look at left-sided accessories.

Currently, the highest Item Level accessories obtainable are 4x i180 and 1x i170 ring.
VIT from Fending Accessories: 177 VIT or 3,628 HP
STR from Slaying Accessories: 179 STR or 1,432 DTR

So... which would you rather have?

There is no content in which a tank with 15k HP is necessary over a tank with 12k HP. That 3k extra HP is doing you no good unless you pop cooldowns. And there's no attack in game yet, where a boss will one-shot a 12-15k HP tank. Or even get close. If you are performing the mechanic correctly and are using appropriate buffs.

So in doing dungeon content where (as of right now) big pulls are nearly impossible. And, if possible, are generally more trouble than they're worth. A tank is, at most, going to pull between 5-6 mobs per pull, usually less. Minor adds that have no HP or damage like those in Dusk Vigil or Fractal Continuum do not count.

Let's say every mob hits the tank for 1k HP.
-VIT tank: 15k HP - 1k x5 mobs = 10k HP.
-STR tank: 12k HP - 1k x5 mobs = 8k HP.

Both are still reasonably high. Even without heals, neither tank is going down with the next hit. So, if a healer is DPSing at this point, it's not a big deal. So let's bring self healing into this. We can use either WAR's Equilibrium or PLD's Clemency for this example.

-VIT tank uses Equilibrium, restores 3.3-3.5k HP @660 STR. (This was the number range that I was able to pull when I took off all my STR accessories.

-STR tank uses Equilibrium, restores 4.4-4.6k HP @850 STR. (This was the number range that I was able to pull when I wore all my STR accessories. Note that I am not full i180.)

PLD's Clemency is likewise affected by STR/Attack Power. So using the above example, the VIT tank now has 13.5k HP while the STR tank is back to full. Without healer assistance. Now combine this with Bloodbath, Storm's Path, Clemency, Equilibrium, Second Wind, Inner Beast, and the myriad of self-healing abilities tanks (WAR in particular) have access to. You may be lacking in 3k HP, which makes no essential difference in content where you're not being one-shot, but now you can also do almost twice as much DPS, as well as self heal.

Is VIT viable? YES. Is it the optimal way to tank? NO.
A VIT tank can tank big hits. So can a STR tank with mitigation. But a STR tank can also top DPS charts and self heal viably.

VIT, like Parry, is also useless if you aren't MT. Your HP is not being threatened at all at that point, so why buff into a stat that is only situationally useful? When STR is useful in all encounters, MTing, OTing, DPSing, or soloing.

(07-04-2015, 05:16 AM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote:

(07-04-2015, 04:21 AM)Sounsyy Wrote: Is VIT viable? YES. Is it the optimal way to tank? NO.

I mean yes this all is logical, but when you're with some shitty pug, you're going to have a bad time without a few VIT accessories.

(07-04-2015, 06:32 AM)Sounsyy Wrote:

(07-04-2015, 05:16 AM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote:

(07-04-2015, 04:21 AM)Sounsyy Wrote: Is VIT viable? YES. Is it the optimal way to tank? NO.

I mean yes this all is logical, but when you're with some shitty pug, you're going to have a bad time without a few VIT accessories.

I am talking optimals here. But a shitty pug is a shitty pug, and an average of 3k HP difference will not help you survive that misfortune. And decent self healing could make the difference between life and death. I've expressed in this very thread that I had an AST healer tried to regen bubble me while I fought the chimera pull in Fractal. 3k hp wasn't gonna make a difference at that point.

But just because a random PUG isn't playing their job well/correctly even, is not a legitimate reason to also play my role sub-optimally. If you have the gear and know-how, you should be optimizing your role in all content, not just endgame. And if you're new to tanking or dont have the gear, by all means go VIT, but know that it's doing you very little benefit and you're not going to learn to tank better unless you actually try. Again, VIT is viable, but not optimal.

(07-04-2015, 06:32 AM)Sounsyy Wrote:

(07-04-2015, 05:16 AM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote:

(07-04-2015, 04:21 AM)Sounsyy Wrote: Is VIT viable? YES. Is it the optimal way to tank? NO.

I mean yes this all is logical, but when you're with some shitty pug, you're going to have a bad time without a few VIT accessories.

I am talking optimals here. But a shitty pug is a shitty pug, and an average of 3k HP difference will not help you survive that misfortune. And decent self healing could make the difference between life and death. I've expressed in this very thread that I had an AST healer tried to regen bubble me while I fought the chimera pull in Fractal. 3k hp wasn't gonna make a difference at that point.

But just because a random PUG isn't playing their job well/correctly even, is not a legitimate reason to also play my role sub-optimally. If you have the gear and know-how, you should be optimizing your role in all content, not just endgame. And if you're new to tanking or dont have the gear, by all means go VIT, but know that it's doing you very little benefit and you're not going to learn to tank better unless you actually try. Again, VIT is viable, but not optimal.