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Dia · **05-06-2015, 01:00 AM**

While it's pretty clear that Astrologians are diviners, I'm curious what else their astromancy can do for them. The class description leaves a pretty ambiguous explanation:

"Thus was astromancy born -- a new form of magick which grants its users power over fate. Employing a star globe and divining deck in their miraculous deeds, fortune always smiles upon these masters of arcana."

Their description in its entirety sort of seemed to me as if they could manipulate fate itself. Which, let's be honest, sounds incredibly overpowered. So I'm curious what else you all of the RPC have to say about astromancy itself and its possibilities.

(tldr bolded)

Verilys · **05-06-2015, 09:32 PM**

(05-06-2015, 01:00 AM)Dia Wrote: While it's pretty clear that Astrologians are diviners, I'm curious what else their astromancy can do for them. The class description leaves a pretty ambiguous explanation:

"Thus was astromancy born -- a new form of magick which grants its users power over fate. Employing a star globe and divining deck in their miraculous deeds, fortune always smiles upon these masters of arcana."

Their description in its entirety sort of seemed to me as if they could manipulate fate itself. Which, let's be honest, sounds incredibly overpowered. So I'm curious what else you all of the RPC have to say about astromancy itself and its possibilities.

That really is an ambiguous statement! And really it depends on the definition of fate and whether or not it can be changed normally. Then there's the decision as to what, exactly, they can change. Personally, I would see the powers of fate-changing as something that can be done indirectly, but not overtly. For example, imagine that fate is a river -- the Astrologian might not be able to change the river's destination, but they can throw rocks into it to alter the various things. Throw enough and maybe they can dam the flow outright.

In practical RP, this might be something like... using their powers to cast a protective shield around an ally to deflect a heart-seeking strike. Alternatively, they may be able to silence a mage and thereby potentially alter the outcome of a fight. If you wish to be more literal, you could even treat a spell as a 'luck buff'. Perhaps if you and your friends use /random for fighting, the spell could add 10% to the result. (Though I'd naturally say to make sure you only do this with friends or people who otherwise agree with that system -- I imagine altering rolls liek that unannounced may cause some upset!)

It's also probably best to ignore the question: "If someone changes fate, was it fate that their fate be changed?" Big Grin

cuideag · **05-06-2015, 09:39 PM**

(04-29-2015, 08:23 AM)Dogberry Wrote: And still, nobody interested in haruspex. Pity.

*raises a hand* :(

Goodfellow · **05-06-2015, 10:48 PM**

(05-06-2015, 01:00 AM)Dia Wrote: While it's pretty clear that Astrologians are diviners, I'm curious what else their astromancy can do for them. The class description leaves a pretty ambiguous explanation:

"Thus was astromancy born -- a new form of magick which grants its users power over fate. Employing a star globe and divining deck in their miraculous deeds, fortune always smiles upon these masters of arcana."

Their description in its entirety sort of seemed to me as if they could manipulate fate itself. Which, let's be honest, sounds incredibly overpowered. So I'm curious what else you all of the RPC have to say about astromancy itself and its possibilities.

As someone who really doesn't go in for the concept of fate/destiny, but who is really interested and invested in AST, I have a different take on it.

And I know they use the word "fate" in the description, but I'd argue that it's something of a misnomer, because "fate" and "fortune" are not the same thing.

In Medieval astrology, "Fortune" and the heavens were not necessarily indicators of "fate" or "destiny" as such, they merely exerted an influence.Â So, someone born under Saturn could reasonably be expected (so went the theory) to exhibit saturnine qualities (that is to say melancholy, contemplation, etc.).Â They would have a natural tendency toward the saturnine.Â They were not of necessity permanently or exclusively saturnine.Â Someone born under Saturn could absolutely be jovial, it just wasn't assumed to have the same probability.Â In the same way, in an opportune time for decision-making under the sign of Jupiter, a ruler could still make a poor, unwise, or ill-advised decision.Â Jupiter was propitious, but did not preclude bad decision-making.

And that's my take on astrologian right now.Â They deal less in fate/destiny and more in fortune; said another way, they influence likelihood, probability, chance, possibility.Â They are not altering a deterministic framework, simply modifying an influential flow, so to speak.

MrPoopyButtHole · **05-08-2015, 10:10 AM**

How to RP Astrologian And/Or Tarot Card for dummies.

Magistrea · **05-15-2015, 04:26 PM**

Shizuka is planned to be an IC Astrologian, and has been making her living telling fortunes via Tarot since she arrived in Eorzea. I find it really interesting that people are using real tarot decks to do readings. I can see why though.

I'd love to get involved in some sort of FC or linkshell for this after Heavensward launches. It sounds like there are quite a number of people who do this. Maybe we could have something like Soliloquy but for fortune tellers?

runewynd · **06-30-2015, 06:25 AM**

Hey, I'm new to the forum, but I love where this discussion is headed.

I'm a card reader IRL, and I love playing diviners in RP pretty much as often as possible.Â The idea of gaining insight into the future while still maintaining mystery is one of my favorite concepts to play.

Anyway, the deck ASTs use for their spells are called Major Arcana, just like the trumps of a tarot deck (although there are only twelve cards, two each of six different kinds).Â So I created a spread using the Majors of a tarot deck inspired by the Astrologian's Star Globe.

So far, it's pretty fun to use, and doubles as an RP-relevant spread!Â My FC-mates aren't terribly RP savvy, nor are they at all versed in the metaphysical or occult, so I think it's safe to say that I've scared a bunch of them with my readings.Â *chuckles*

Anyway, I wanted to comment on the whole "fate" thing- in canon (from what I have gleaned from the Job quests), what ASTs are really doing is reading and manipulating aethers descended from the stars (and thus the Twelve).Â They manipulate the aethers to lay benefic or malefic fates upon others (spells), and aren't really any more OP than Black Mages (who command and master death and the Void) or Summoners (who become able to safely and wisely summon gods).

Basically, it's a pretty balanced class for RP- not too stacked with influence (take into account how much influence Sharlayan and Ishgard actually had, as opposed to how influential the class description implied they could have had), and essentially relegated to a support class (which in my opinion is perfect and only maybe slightly meta).Â Now if only I could get my hands on a Deck of Sixty...

Paradox · **06-30-2015, 12:20 PM**

As far as manipulating fate itself, a good example comes from Remilia Scarlet from the Tohou-verse. Remi's ability is the manipulation of fate, but we never really see it openly used. It's thought by the fandom that she uses it for very subtle things rather than overt, vulgar displays. The way I see it, manipulating fate is just changing a road slightly, like putting up a detour sign so something that's meant to happen happens sooner rather than later, or later rather than sooner. You have to re-merge back into the main road. For example. If someone is fated to be killed by being shot, the Astromancer reads the cards and sees that their fate is destined to happen tomorrow. That person has something important to do tomorrow, so the Astromancer manipulates fate. The person *is* shot, but survives. However, they're still fated to die by being shot, and from that point on it's unknown whether it's tomorrow, or ten years form now. The way I see fate manipulation working is, you can only detour the same road once, twice at most. However, once someone knows their fate, they can actively try to change it themselves after it's been once changed for them. Awareness is half of fate, destination the other half.

In the previous example, the person's fate to die by being shot remains. However, other questions are unanswered, such as 'will it be the same person', or 'is it going to be an accident rather than willful', and so on. Learning your fate and manipulating it to a degree makes for even better roleplay if it's handled properly. I tend to go by the rule of three; a single person's fate cannot be changed by magic like Astromancy more than three times before the stars simply fail to answer again. I like to think this is reasonable as it goes by known rules of magic in other mythologies and faiths; some might also argue that the stars, like the gods, might be fickle and only answer if they feel like it, or in ways that aren't *quite* what is asked for.

Back on the tarot card topic, it also fits in with using the cards IRL (I've been a reader as well in my past). In the sense that there are various interpretations of what each card means. They can be taken as a literal event or as a figurative meaning depending on the actual reading itself as well. The pattern the cards are laid in, the question asked, or event accessed..it's all subjective, because fate is not ironclad or concrete. It's a road with a thousand branches.

Goodfellow · **07-19-2015, 11:10 PM**

*Casts Awaken on thread*

So now that AST is actually playable and we've all had a little time with it, I wanted to revisit this topic and see how people are actually using the cards (and other astromantic elements) in their RP.Â I'm particularly interested in how people are working with the six Major Arcana that we've actually been given in-game (Arrow, Balance, Bole, Ewer, Spear, and Spire), but please share whatever it is you're doing, constellations or no.

*Note to mods: I didn't want to clutter the forum, but if you feel it's a better way to do things, feel free to split the topic off.

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Astrologian And/Or Tarot Card Roleplay

RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes