(06-26-2015, 12:57 PM)Gaspard Wrote: To clarify;Â
I don't believe there's an inherent issue with such exclusive Linkshells / or groups, or that they in turn mean that those individuals will isolate themselves to said group solely. Neither would I feel slighted if not allowed to be part of such group.
I know the appeal of such 'safe' havens, in different contexts. I also know that it is easy to lose yourself in such and eventually make that your main 'staying' point as opposed to the general community as a whole.
At the end of the day, Such exclusive LC's and FC's will definitely not hurt nor impede anyone. But at the same time, I do see a problem if they're made with the intend to 'avoid bigotry of the general masses against LGBT people'. Simply because that both stands as criticism towards a community I've experienced to be rather open in such regards, and secondly because it doesn't address nor help in solving the issue of said bigotry. It may be idealistic (and therein Unrealistic), but I believe the actual goal should be for the LGBT community to be able to exist comfortably as part of the whole thing, and not need to 'draw back' into their own safe haven.Â
Which is why comparison to RP themed Linkshells/FC's doesn't hold ground, since they're not made with the intend to avoid social stigmas / bigotry/ racism by the community at large.
Again, I can't stress this enough;
I don't mind such Linkshells, I don't believe they're wrong or the likes. If they're made simply for people of likeminded taste to share company with eachother. I 'do' believe however that it's not helpful if they're made solely to avoid the bigotry of the masses, to, so to speak, 'withdraw' from the conflict and just resolve to 'us being ourselves somewhere seperate'. You wont achieve any form of satisfying solution. Again, It's Idealistic to a degree, but that's my opinion.
Also, I don't agree with the notion that 'Non' LGBT people do not understand. Discrimination is something anyone can experience at a certain point in their lifes, and hurt is universal. You forget that Humans are empathetic creatures and  the reason why we're able to exist next to eachother en masse is 'exactly because' we're able to relate, understand, and feel as our peers. While we may not relate to the very specific, singular circumstance you may find yourself in, your emotions of 'discrimination/rejection' are universal. Anyone who has ever faced discrimination in some form will be able to relate to you on an emotional basis, as emotions are universal. To say that your struggle is 'unique' and not 'understandable' by others doesn't really fly. It never did. If you even reject the notion of empathy expressed by others for the very problems you mention, then you're sabotaging 'any' hope for a mutual community.
You can't discriminate against a social group that holds all the power. Â
And Strait White Male holds All of it in the context of America and a lot of other places. Hell, given how imperialism works, we've got a lot more sway than we're warranted -everywhere-.
You can be a dick to someone for a reason, like being a strait white male, on a one to one basis, but discrimination, as a force, isn't involved there. Â That's you: Being a dick. Â Discrimination requires an entire culture and society behind it, grinding you through the gears.
That doesn't apply to the one turning the crank of the war machine, as it were. Â Anything that "lessens" the power of strait white males at this point isn't discrimination, it's equality. Â It's a leveling of the playing field.
And I can see why you'd find that scary. Â It's a lot at stake. Â Almost all that's AT stake, however, is based on cultural and institutionalized oppression of everyone that ISN'T a strait white male.
Look at what you're losing.  You're not admitted to a chat channel?  That's been happening to other groups for a long time.  White Male as a "pass" to all things is based in "White Male" being top dog in the world. It isn't a carte blanche (see what I did there?) and shouldn't be by any thought or stretch.  You aren't being discriminated against, you're allowing others to have  what White Male has had for centuries in this country: The ability to have their own space.
And there's nothing wrong with that. Â
In the end you're literally losing nothing by not being in a LGBT chat channel. Â Oh no. Â As pointed elsewhere in this thread, that's not even real separation. Â It's just a place you're not. Â Why is that wrong? Why do you have the right to be there when it's not intended for you? Â It's like showing up to a pie eating contest and NOT LIKING PIE. Â It's a club you aren't part of. Â So why insist you need to be a member?
That kind of thinking is pretty core to the entitlement issue that keeps causing issues for everyone else. Â Eventually white het cis male will show up and start imposing on the party, and shout loudly and with a lot of power if they can't get in, even if they weren't invited. Given that White Het Cis Male holds so much power, this often destroys the party.
As to touch, briefly, as to why you can never know what it's like to be a group that you are inherantly not a part of?
There's a thought experiment known as the Bat experiment.
Imagine being a bat.
You will never be a bat. Â You will never actually experience being a bat. Â The most you will ever be is a human pretending to experience a bat. Â Because you're you. Â You can't be more than you and you CAN'T be a bat because you, personally, are a human!
Same applies to Strait White Guy "Understanding" what it's like to be affected by institutionalized discrimination. Â You can't. You can, at best, only empathize. Â You can only be Strait White Male pretending to have the same perspective as anyone who is not Strait White Male.