(08-16-2016, 09:33 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote:(08-16-2016, 09:16 PM)Sounsyy Wrote: On the contrary, I believe defensive cooldowns are as essential to the tank's role as dps is to a healer's role. But also that either role can choose not to do these things and get away with it because another role will cover for them. A healer will cover for a tank not using cooldowns. The damage dealers will cover for a healer not using dps.
In short, my opinion is that if the game gives your class an ability (or nearly a dozen of them) it's probably part of your role to use them, even if it's not your primary function in a party. A tank's primary function is to hold enmity, it's secondary function is to help the healer keep it alive.
Tanking CDs are part of what Tanks need in order to tank. DPS spells are not, in any way, part of what Healers need in order to heal*.
We simply have entirely different viewpoints on what a tank's role is (the idea that tanking CDs are not needed to tank properly is just...it's ludicrous) and is not, so there's not much point in even continuing the conversation.
I'm assuming you define tank in two parts:
1] a party member who controls enmity.
2] a party member who can withstand heavy damage.
While only defining a Healer as:
1] a party member who heals.
Unfortunately, the reality is that a tank class can queue up for Expert, grab hate on everything, and never once pop a single cooldown for the entire dungeon. I've seen it, frequently! They've effectively "tanked" the dungeon, albeit incredibly inefficiently and painfully. But "did we wipe?" Nope. "Did we complete in 35 minutes instead of 30 minutes?" Yep. "Did the tank lose aggro and kill anybody?" Nope! Welp, according to this same very thread: Mission Complete! It is just an expert after all.
But you and I both agree that that's no damned way to tank. It's just not. But it's literally how a good portion of tanks play. Minimal Effort. Sadly, this isn't every other MMO. And despite the name, Healers don't just heal either. FFXIV defines a Healer as:
1] a party member who heals.
2] a party member who assists dps.
And I know that's not like anything most people have ever done apparently, but it's how the role plays in this game. So, you can do like tanks and do minimal effort, or you can do just a little bit to assist the other players in your party. It's not necessary for completion. It isn't. But unfortunately, the same can be said of defensive cooldowns.
Lemme use WAR as an example. I could go through my rotations, deal damage to build on my self healing, pop defensive cooldowns in time with my tanking rotation, and generally manage just fine on most expert bosses largely by myself self-healing and assisting with dps. OR, I could not pop any one of my seven defensive cooldowns and just let my massive HP pool keep me up while the healer cure bombs me frantically. In both scenarios everybody still fulfilled their primary holy-trinity roles, but because of my failing to fulfill my secondary role helping my healer, my healer no longer had the option to help the dps.
(08-16-2016, 09:38 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote: I remain unconvinced that Healer or Tank damage is necessary in Experts unless the DPS are complete failures at the game.
Totally not necessary at all for completion. But assuming a dungeon is designed around exclusively the DPS's potential output. Adding in the healer's and tank's dps just kills things that much quicker. If the Tank and the Healer pull down 800 dps each, that's 1600 additional dps, the equivalent of having a third damage dealer while tank and healer still perform their primary functions of "the party didn't die!" Win win!