While we're on the subject, how valid is playing a Lalafell princess, exactly? I wouldn't think it was possible for a player to even do that. I know that the Sultana only reigns over Ul'dah and its people... But other than that, I have no idea how Lalafell royalty works. I mean, there are no other places besides Ul'dah that would have a royal family to even rule them in Eorzea, are there (since Sil'dih and its entire civilization no longer exist)? Or are people making up their own city-state?
|Nobility in RP|
RE: Nobility in RP | 10-30-2013 04:30 AM
(10-29-2013 09:49 PM)Faye Wrote:
Could swear I mentioned that exact conversation earlier in the thread! :-P
RE: Nobility in RP | 10-30-2013 09:30 AM
The way I've learned is to sort of follow the golden rule of "don't be a dick."
I know most people don't have any problems with nobility in your character so long as it's sort of just...logical and not all god-moddy, if that makes sense?
If your character has some wealth or title, that's probably okay. But I don't think it's generally approved of if you try to be the long lost son of Gaius and you own the deeds to half of Eorzea.
Using my own character as an example (though it isn't up anymore, as I'm adjusting the writing on the wiki), Ophelia is technically a noble. Her family's status and wealth come from their hand in the fishing markets in Limsa. They aren't the richest-of-the-rich and don't have any extreme ties or control of anything, but around Limsa at the very least, her namesake might get her some favors.
RE: Nobility in RP | 11-01-2013 02:14 PM
(This post was last modified: 11-01-2013 02:15 PM by Graeham.)
It's pretty questionable to role-play one's character as being royalty. It doesn't matter if it's a huge secret either. In fact, if you're unlikely to ever reveal something like that to begin with it seems rather redundant to tack it on as a potential plot hook in the first place.
I saw a lot of role-players try to do something similar in WoW as well. No role-player is special enough to be able to create an entire country to justify their character's existence. Why not simply work with the setting as it is currently depicted instead of trying to add various 'hidden' locations that don't even exist as far the canon lore is concerned?
RE: Nobility in RP | 11-01-2013 02:28 PM
Out-of-map locations can work well for backstory only if those locations are mostly irrelevant on a large scale. Making up that you come from a village that is in an indeterminate "somewhere" is fine. Making up that you come from a city state hidden between the mountains borders traditional fan-fiction territory.
Now, you might say "But NPCs can't acknowledge the existence of my irrelevant town, either!" and think that writes it off as a thing you shouldn't do. However, because the town is irrelevant and not the size of a whole city state or nation, the fact that the world can't acknowledge it doesn't mean they don't exist. It just means they are too irrelevant to be noticed by the general population. That's why making up that you come from a village (or, for example, a Miqo'te tribe that lives in X region) is fine.
Even then, though, it is better if you can pick up an in-lore location for your backstory than to make one up. There might be some character concepts that don't work well with any of the in-game towns/cities/villages, but those concepts are kind of rare and chances are you will find a town/etc that fits the backstory already in-game. After all, we have quite a lot of in-game locations to pick from.
RE: Nobility in RP | 11-01-2013 02:40 PM
(This post was last modified: 11-01-2013 02:43 PM by Sigyn Shieldbreaker.)
(11-01-2013 02:14 PM)Theodric Ironheart Wrote: It's pretty questionable to role-play one's character as being royalty. It doesn't matter if it's a huge secret either. In fact, if you're unlikely to ever reveal something like that to begin with it seems rather redundant to tack it on as a potential plot hook in the first place.
The majority of WoW nobility I ever saw were humans or Blood Elves. Blood Elves sort of kind of make sense of you take in the Convocation of Silvermoon-- as at least five of the houses were unnamed so far as I've ever found. One large effort on Ravenholdt was to re-establish seven houses (not including Sunstrider or Drathir) in place of the seven that had fallen in RP. It was done entirely through roleplay and for a while it worked out really nicely, consolidating smaller houses into larger one and generally using political marriage and manipulation to get things combed out.
Humans... I dunno about humans. I know there are lords and there were kings of different areas. I'm not too well informed about the various stories and origins so anyone who told me they were a lord of some odd place or another I would generally have to accept on my Night Elf who gave about two poops for human bloodlines and nobility. Siobhain would probably respond much the same way-- if someone looks like a noble, and they act like a noble, and they have enough people to back them up, why wouldn't she assume they -were- in character unless she had strong reason to doubt them such as having lived in and being well acquainted in the particular area they should have been well known in? Even then she likely wouldn't doubt it. It's mostly about appearances.
1. the quality of being noble in character, mind, birth, or rank.
2. the group of people belonging to the noble class in a country, esp. those with a hereditary or honorary title.
Honorary title is up there with hereditary. Honestly, if you have enough money and you have enough sway over the locals, even if you're NOT acknowledged by the primary ruling body of an area, you might as well be a noble.
RE: Nobility in RP | 11-01-2013 03:08 PM
(This post was last modified: 11-01-2013 03:20 PM by Sigyn Shieldbreaker.)
(11-01-2013 02:51 PM)K Wrote:(11-01-2013 02:40 PM)Siobhain Wrote:(11-01-2013 02:14 PM)Theodric Ironheart Wrote: It's pretty questionable to role-play one's character as being royalty. It doesn't matter if it's a huge secret either. In fact, if you're unlikely to ever reveal something like that to begin with it seems rather redundant to tack it on as a potential plot hook in the first place.
I completely understand your point and I've heard horror stories of MG's hack at 'nobility'. I saw the same thing happen on Wyrmrest Accord and honestly when Ravenholdt began to deteriorate, it happened there too. I'll list my issues with poorly-done noble houses in a moment but on Ravenholdt there was organization. The cornerstone to the whole thing was two large Sin'dorei houses run by an OOCly married couple. One ran one house and his spouse led the other. Their conflict and their openness to bring other houses into the 'fray' provided the building blocks.
More, and here's my stance of noble houses, they fulfilled what I consider to be one of the most IMPORTANT parts of running a house-- GIVING YOUR MEMBERS SOME STORY. Too often do I see a clique of people who are all ICly connected or related expecting all their roster to simply support their story. They commonly walk around with their posses who exist, seemingly, only to credit their 'power' or 'status'. In our house at least, each person who was brought into the fold was given plenty of attention. Our officers turned us, trained us, and stayed with us. Our guards actually did their jobs and spent much time talking and training amongst themselves. Our diplomats lived endangered lives, we had spies, infiltrators, scape goats-- no one was simply a servant with no other purpose except to add one more to the roster.
We had goals, rivals, and conflict. Nothing was swept under the rug simply because a member who got involved with an issue was 'too low rank to notice'. I mean when it really boils down to it, it's RP. For the nobles, you should have some sway and notoriety. You're not going to get that by trying to accumulate as many RPers as possible then neglecting them or focusing solely on your own story.
The revival of the Convocation of Silvermoon made no real efforts to try to twist the actual lore. No one was trying to dethrone Lor'themar, no one was trying to usurp the Horde or pretended that the united 'power' of the group could accomplish such a feat on behalf of the whole of their people. What they did was fill their niche-- whatever job they did that made them a noble house, they continued to do.
The conflicts that arose were often two wealthy houses having an issue over territory or jobs that they wanted to fill that some other group wanted as well. The IC decisions they made and topics they discussed affected the united houses as a whole, and perhaps the 'retainer-houses' that were allied with them, but they didn't try and control NPCs. If, say, a war broke out on their doorstep (there were huge non-Elf groups like the Shadowtusk Clan which was a giant Troll guild who hated belfs and loved to start issues that could turn into full scale blood-sport, or evil guilds such as the Knights of the Icy Blade who readied themselves to attack the living houses eventually), they'd use that Convocation to persuade the other houses to aid the effort, throwing whatever accumulated weight they had around and pulling all the ties they'd forged.
Another fun part of it was the 'Shadow War'-- all members of all houses and even non-Elf houses were held to the single important rule 'No fighting in the cities'. The NPC guards would no doubt take you and put you away. Rather than testing that rule and saying 'Oh well that Sentinel just ran by me and didn't do anything' people honored it and took it a step further to the Shadow War. They worked in manipulation, kidnapping, subterfuge, and there were people in the houses whose sole purpose was to do the dirty work and keep the reputation of the house pristine. It's almost unfathomable now-- people not being called on their guild tags simply because they're floating over their head or recognized because of their name.
I don't know. All the memories and the work and how well things went for quite some time still leaves a nice big place in my heart for nobles and noble houses that are done well. I always feel a little sad for an aspiring crime-lord or a noble who doesn't have anyone to beef up their reputation but I feel it's something that can be accomplished in character. I certainly don't want to see nobility demonized OOCly by people who assume everyone who RPs nobility is going to do so poorly and they don't -deserve- to RP a noble character-- but I know the vast majority if not the entirety of the RPC doesn't feel that way because of the general open-mindedness I find here.
Someday I'd be happy to have Siobhain swear her loyalty to some noble or another if their views were in line with her own. But chances are, just because of the character type, it'd be far more likely to see her connected to some type of militia or school.
*On another note, I yearn to see some large scale criminal coalition in Ul'dah filling different niches that are connected and work together. Similarly, I'd enjoy, I think, seeing a few nobles grouped up and doing noble things together. I'd like to see the dynamic of different nobles and how they interact with each other despite their different origins as well as non-nobles interacting with them. *dreamy sigh*
RE: Nobility in RP | 11-01-2013 04:04 PM
(This post was last modified: 11-01-2013 04:05 PM by Kismet.)
A handful of you are much braver than I, because you have openly voiced things about the whole "nobility rarely handled with sensibility" thing in a way that was very appropriate. I didn't want to say anything myself because I was quite unsure that I could do so while still sounding open-minded and/or while lacking hostility towards the matter. XD
That aside, I suppose I could sum a lot of my feelings up as... Play what you want. No one can dictate what you do in that regard. However, I just wish people would do SOME research as opposed to none when it comes to jumping into these sorts of things and just making assumptions.
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