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The tricky subject of Rp and Spelling


Icoco-Ico

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How does one bring up the subject of spelling in ffxiv?

I have a friend, and they slip up on the word "Your" when meaning to write "you're". And things like that of the same nature.
I don't want to be mean, and I don't want to come across as a snob. I understand the difference between typos and consistent mistakes.
They're really nice otherwise!

I could really use some input.

 

Edited by Icoco-Ico
I sounded like an ass before.
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You say you know the difference between typos and consistent mistakes but you refer to it as them slipping up? The wording has me a little confused since I'm reading "slip up" as a mistake but you saying you know the difference as it being consistent.

 

If they're consistently using the wrong word? Tell them but be polite about it. I personally would want someone to tell me something like that so I can correct my mistakes.

 

If they're just making a lot of typos? Let it go. MMO RP demands fast typing and the chat system makes it hard to catch mistakes.

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7 minutes ago, Mermaid said:

You say you know the difference between typos and consistent mistakes but you refer to it as them slipping up? The wording has me a little confused since I'm reading "slip up" as a mistake but you saying you know the difference as it being consistent.

 

If they're consistently using the wrong word? Tell them but be polite about it. I personally would want someone to tell me something like that so I can correct my mistakes.

 

If they're just making a lot of typos? Let it go. MMO RP demands fast typing and the chat system makes it hard to catch mistakes.

Oh, no, I know. If it was once or twice, It wouldn't bother me. But it's about every post. "To" instead of "too" "their" instead of "they're". Sorry I wasn't more clear, I wasn't sure if I should even post the thread to begin with. I have a hard time trying to figure out what I wanted to say. If someone were to approach the subject to you, is there a way it could be worded without it coming across badly?

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I'm kind of... 'nazi' on this issue, I guess...

I have a lot of understanding for people with dyslexia, and on their case I give them a full pass.

But people who just didn't learn to spell? ...Not many sympathy points here. I won't ignore you if you do it consistently, I won't get on your case, but I won't take you seriously either.

 

I'm putting effort into all of my emotes, I put in effort to write as perfect English as I can as a non-native speaker and expressing myself well in RP is part of the whole deal. So if I can take the time to fix my typos -while emoting-, why can't you? Laziness? Lack of motivation to be taken seriously? I don't know. 


If your English isn't that good, then that's fine. But over time, I think it will improve. At least,  ideally, it should. Once again, I am not a dick to those who can't spell, but I do sort of lean back and gravitate towards the people that can.

And generally, if the person doing this is my friend... I whisper them and give them the right spelling.

I won't do it with strangers, because I know people can be very defensive about things like this coming from people they don't know.

Edited by Xihsa'li Tayuun
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8 minutes ago, Xihsa'li Tayuun said:

I'm kind of... 'nazi' on this issue, I guess...

I have a lot of understanding for people with dyslexia, and on their case I give them a full pass.

But people who just didn't learn to spell? ...Not many sympathy points here. I won't ignore you if you do it consistently, I won't get on your case, but I won't take you seriously either.

 

I'm putting effort into all of my emotes, I put in effort to write as perfect English as I can as a non-native speaker and expressing myself well in RP is part of the whole deal. So if I can take the time to fix my typos -while emoting-, why can't you? Laziness? Lack of motivation to be taken seriously? I don't know. 


If your English isn't that good, then that's fine. But over time, I think it will improve. At least,  ideally, it should. Once again, I am not a dick to those who can't spell, but I do sort of lean back and gravitate towards the people that can.

And generally, if the person doing this is my friend... I whisper them and give them the right spelling.

I won't do it with strangers, because I know people can be very defensive about things like this coming from people they don't know.

Right. I notice it every time, and while I don't know them all that well ooc, our chars get along pretty well. So it's a very gray area for me, if you understand. I thought to perhaps lightly mentioning it and then going from there. I just wanted feedback from the community since I know it's a varied group of people. I thought maybe I could sort of gauge how people would react to subject matter.

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24 minutes ago, Icoco-Ico said:

Right. I notice it every time, and while I don't know them all that well ooc, our chars get along pretty well. So it's a very gray area for me, if you understand. I thought to perhaps lightly mentioning it and then going from there. I just wanted feedback from the community since I know it's a varied group of people. I thought maybe I could sort of gauge how people would react to subject matter.

 

If they're not an OOC friend... I suppose I'd be careful with it? It's kind of.. yeah, a gray area. I also would hesitate on it. Could always ask them if they're a native speaker, and sort of... round about come to the topic of 'you're' vs 'your'. It's hard, though, if you don't know them that well.

You could just chill and try and not be bothered by it, too. Always an option, even if hard. xD

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3 hours ago, Icoco-Ico said:

Oh, no, I know. If it was once or twice, It wouldn't bother me. But it's about every post. "To" instead of "too" "their" instead of "they're". Sorry I wasn't more clear, I wasn't sure if I should even post the thread to begin with. I have a hard time trying to figure out what I wanted to say. If someone were to approach the subject to you, is there a way it could be worded without it coming across badly?

Ah, okay. When it comes to me personally, I'm a person who very much wants to improve. Constructive criticism is important and I like when people can not only tell me what I'm doing wrong but how I can do it better. The thing is not everyone is open to criticism and that's why you have to be careful. Remember, unsolicited advice will almost always come off as condescending regardless of your intentions.

 

I would start by asking them if they're aware of the fact they're doing it. As other people have mentioned, English may not be their first language. Judge their response and reaction to that. If they seem open, ask them if that's something they'd like to improve on. If they're open to the idea then you can explain the words or simply link them to one of those articles about commonly mistaken words. If they're not open to the idea then drop it. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.

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This is not a mistake a non native speaker would do.

 

Xihsa'li seems to have covered my thoughts pretty well.

 

It's really something that makes me greet my teeth. I have a very low tolerance IRL with people of my own native language that can't spell properly (except for dyslexia, etc... if they never got the chance to get a doctor on it when they were young). This translates badly with me in other languages too. A few sparse mistakes are fine.

 

But this is also an exercise in writing. I don't care that much with anything OOC. But when it's about writing roleplay, it's like reading a book with gross mistakes like that all over the place. It's very repelling. 

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In life you get to choose if such things like this will upset you or not. Tolerance is a wonderful thing.

 

It is really your problem, and your choice as to weather this is a deal breaker.

 

I am dyslexic and I am really bad at the spelling thing. In quick fire RP I have no choice but to .. be bad. When there is longer then I fall back on an editor or these days check out http://www.rptoolbox.site/

 

What helps is an RP partner who understands, provides help and also accepts me (and does not judge me).

 

 

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6 hours ago, Valence said:

This is not a mistake a non native speaker would do.

 

Xihsa'li seems to have covered my thoughts pretty well.

 

It's really something that makes me greet my teeth. I have a very low tolerance IRL with people of my own native language that can't spell properly (except for dyslexia, etc... if they never got the chance to get a doctor on it when they were young). This translates badly with me in other languages too. A few sparse mistakes are fine.

 

But this is also an exercise in writing. I don't care that much with anything OOC. But when it's about writing roleplay, it's like reading a book with gross mistakes like that all over the place. It's very repelling. 

 

It makes you greet your teeth, huh?

(Pssst, dude, your grammar's not good enough for you to be so judgmental about other people.)

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I used to be pretty nitpicky, but then I learned to let it go because everyone makes mistakes, and more than that, some people have learning disabilities or bad teachers or have some things they struggle with (I know a guy who's a journalist who has this issue with like almost all of his new writers, to the point that I'm beginning to wonder if it's probably the school system that's failing).  Ask them if they're interested in some grammar/spelling tips.  If not, man, learn to let it go.

 

That said, I've rped long enough that I've seen peoples' writing improve just by exposure to others who are consistent with rules, which in and of itself is really damn rewarding.

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I have a general rule in who I will deal with on a social level.  This includes RP for obvious reasons.

 

You have to use all of the letters.

 

For common misspellings.  Well, I'm horrible at it.  I have no room to judge.  If it really bothers you and it's someone you RP with frequently, ask them to watch those frequent mistakes?  Most folks will either a.) become self conscious or b.) attempt to improve to make the RP experience more enjoyable for others involved.   Just make sure to do it kindly and constructively instead of jumping their case, so to speak.

 

I think a good bit of this is due to the fact that we have such constant availability of software to automatically catch and often automatically correct our mistakes.  I think it may be this reliance on technology, while convenient, is part of what is causing the gap in writing ability compared to some of the older hats?

 

 

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In my experiences, it's usually native speakers who tend to make more spelling mistakes than a struggling non-native speaker. Usually, I chalk it up to the person writing/typing too fast, which is usually what I'm guilty of when I make a typo. (I'm particularly adept at dropping "n't" when I mean to use it or adding it somewhere it doesn't belong because my fingers were faster than my brain.)

 

Unless the person is purposely misspelling things, I don't typically care. I expect complete sentences, but I have no room to judge when my own spelling is bad. If it's an in-game term, there's also a good chance it has an auto-translate, which makes a great spell check while skimming over. (But please don't use a paragraph full of them. Just delete and retype is my preference.)

 

When it comes to non-native writing issues, it's usually more vocabulary or syntax. Things like using a word that is technically correct, but out of context or in context but sounds strange. Like if someone tried to reconstruct a sentence with synonyms. (One that has stood out for me is seeing "cease" instead of "stop" as an example. They mean the same things, but an English speaker wouldn't use the former in typical speech.) Other times, there can be some interesting syntax whether that's because someone accidentally used their native language's structure or may not fully understand the grammar. In those cases, if I can understand, I continue on. If I can't, then I'll ask for clarification or send the person a private message. Often, we get the meaning across just fine. 

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12 minutes ago, Unnamed Mercenary said:

Unless the person is purposely misspelling things, I don't typically care. I expect complete sentences, but I have no room to judge when my own spelling is bad. If it's an in-game term, there's also a good chance it has an auto-translate, which makes a great spell check while skimming over. (But please don't use a paragraph full of them. Just delete and retype is my preference.)

 

Worst I do, honestly, is poke fun a little if the typo is amusing. Good-natured ribbing and the like, though I'd certainly stop it if it bothered the person in question.

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Keep in mind that people who are RPing on console don't get the luxury of typing it out elsewhere or even readily scrolling back to what they've already entered, and if their setup has them too far from the screen typos can go totally unnoticed. I know at least one person who can spell just fine but makes typos just for that reason, they're on PS4 and sometimes it's something as dumb as the bluetooth keyboard woke up slowly or dropped a letter.

 

Ultimately if you can understand what they're saying, the RP is fun, and their writing's good enough, it's not a big deal. I am hyper-aware of typos but everyone does 'em, self included, and you just gotta learn to take a deep breath and let it slide.

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If you can understand them, and others around them seem to able to understand them and they aren't getting frustrated with miscommunications, then I can't really see the point of bringing it up. Most of us RPing in FFXIV are adults, or at the very least older teens. If this is such a frequent issue for them, no doubt they've been taught proper spelling and grammar growing up and been corrected by teachers and professionals throughout their lives. I'm sure they're already aware of their errors, at this point they probably just either A) genuinely cannot understand the difference or more likely B) don't want to be bothered to correct it. Much as it annoys you to notice their errors, the thought of spending a few seconds longer to proofread and think over their posts when they're already generally understandable might annoy them. I just don't honestly don't see the point of bringing up something that has surely been pointed out to them numerous times in their lives. If you genuinely enjoy RPing with this person and this issue is driving you up the wall so much you no longer want to RP with them, then maybe it's worth politely pointing out to them that their errors are making it difficult for you to focus on the RP and therefore making the RP unenjoyable for you. Otherwise, I personally don't see it as an issue. If I feel someone can't string a sentence together to the point I can't enjoy writing with them, I just politely wiggle my way out of the scene and try to avoid them from there on. Our styles just don't jive, but that doesn't mean I have to try to change theirs, unless they ask me for my input.

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Back in the day, in another game many years ago, someone sent me a mean-ass whisper because I didn't capitalize my I's, so i would type like this, because capitalizing a single letter to make it a word is a very alien concept in my native tongue. They were all up in the "This is messing with my immersion". I was shook, and I thought this person was -really- rude and not very understanding for someone who was just breaching into the territory of fluent English. 

But I also capitalized every "I" ever since, getting myself into the habit. I guess a turning point in my learning of English can be contributed to a mean /whisper. Heck.

Personally, I wouldn't nitpick on something like that. I know more native English speakers who mess up your/you're and similar mistakes than I know non-natives who genuinely have problems with that level of English. It's been my experience that bi-lingual people have this drilled into their backbone whereas native speakers may be more lax and not care so much - I know whenever I switch back to typing in my native tongue, I make "embarrassing" mistakes like these as well. I'd encourage you to work on some breathing techniques and become a force of tolerance, but then again, maybe you prompting your friend about it is the nudge they need to never ever make that mistake again. 

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I was, once upon a time, part e an RP community that graded your writing. At the end of each week one of the GMs would review your work (minimum one thousand words) and give you notes before giving your writing a grade. Your accumulated grade was your character's overall strength. This was a hell of a community, albeit a demanding one, and I was very happy with the years I spent there.

 

But in XIV, no one has asked you to be their editor. No one is getting graded. You're not there to improve someone's writing. You're just telling a story with them. You have to remember that odds are the person you're RPing with isn't looking to be graded. They aren't looking for an experience like my old community. 

 

To that end, I don't act as anyone's editor unless they request it or I know them well enough to know they won't take it as an offense.

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4 hours ago, Andromeda said:

I was, once upon a time, part e an RP community that graded your writing. At the end of each week one of the GMs would review your work (minimum one thousand words) and give you notes before giving your writing a grade. Your accumulated grade was your character's overall strength. This was a hell of a community, albeit a demanding one, and I was very happy with the years I spent there.

 

I hope you don't mind me saying, this sounds kind of horrible and reminds me of Gaia Online RP back in the day! It makes me kind of nostalgic for forum RP. Sounds like a good learning experience either way though! Depending on the context or setting of the RP that might be some sort of interesting meta, I guess.

 

I'm in the "If you can understand what they meant, then don't bother" camp. I know OP's already decided what they're going to do, but I wanted to add my two cents. Several of my own RP partners (including my own fiance-- I give him shit because he's my fiance and that's what we do with eachother but I wouldn't anyone else) make these sorts of spelling mistakes, and occasional grammatical mistakes in general, but I still understand what they meant and I know they're trying because they capitalize and punctuate and all that. And that's really all I need. Life is too short to get hung up on the little things in video game pretendtimes and I'm anxious about enough already. I know my partners will be forgiving of my own typos and mistakes too.

 

I would only really draw a line (I say would because I've never actually seen it!) if the other person was typing with no capitalization or punctuation at all, the way I would in a casual conversation in Discord or a tumblr shitpost. Or *emoting like this*. I wouldn't actually say anything to the person though, I'd just not really go out of my way to RP with them again and leave it at that.

Edited by Shoshopu
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2 minutes ago, Shoshopu said:

 

I hope you don't mind me saying, this sounds kind of horrible and reminds me of Gaia Online RP back in the day! It makes me kind of nostalgic for forum RP. Sounds like a good learning experience either way though!

It was done mostly thorough GDocs, but basically yeah. It was certainly a major cultural shift from most RP communities and I think the only thing that kept the elitism of it in check was the idea of being graded kept so many people out that otherwise would've been treated like lesser parts of the community.

 

The point being that in that environment, people were expecting peer editing. In this one they aren't.

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I'm kind of... 'nazi' on this issue, I guess...

I have a lot of understanding for people with dyslexia, and on their case I give them a full pass.

But people who just didn't learn to spell? ...Not many sympathy points here. I won't ignore you if you do it consistently, I won't get on your case, but I won't take you seriously either.

 

I'm putting effort into all of my emotes, I put in effort to write as perfect English as I can as a non-native speaker and expressing myself well in RP is part of the whole deal. So if I can take the time to fix my typos -while emoting-, why can't you? Laziness? Lack of motivation to be taken seriously? I don't know. 


If your English isn't that good, then that's fine. But over time, I think it will improve. At least,  ideally, it should. Once again, I am not a dick to those who can't spell, but I do sort of lean back and gravitate towards the people that can.

And generally, if the person doing this is my friend... I whisper them and give them the right spelling.

I won't do it with strangers, because I know people can be very defensive about things like this coming from people they don't know.

 

I essentially can agree with everything said here, in particular about language improving. If someone struggles to spell, but is RPing with someone who spells everything right, the onus is on the 'bad speller' to ask if his/her way of spelling it is correct, of it the 'good speller' is correct. Or maybe Google it to double-check? I'm a bit of a nazi about English and grammar as well, but I'm always polite about it. If it's someone I don't interact with too often, or don't have a good report with OOCly, then I more than likely won't say anything. If it's a friend, I'll point it out. 

 

 

On 2/25/2018 at 9:23 PM, Icoco-Ico said:

How does one bring up the subject of spelling in ffxiv?

I have a friend, and they slip up on the word "Your" when meaning to write "you're". And things like that of the same nature.
I don't want to be mean, and I don't want to come across as a snob. I understand the difference between typos and consistent mistakes.
They're really nice otherwise!

I could really use some input.

 

The your/you're, their/they're is actually a ridiculously common problem.  Try sharing THIS LINK with your friend? For the most part, if I'm writing with someone who is making these basic English mistakes, I just keep writing my own way and hope that the other person picks it up, or asks me what's right - especially if I'm not sure whether or not we'll meet up again (i.e for strangers, not friends). If someone is asking me about the game and/or RP, though, that makes it a lot easier to broach the subject of grammar and spelling. 

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