Hydaelyn Role-Players

So...hey, I was just sort of curious/wanting to pick the brain of the RPC on this topic.

What happens when you put together a character that, after a pretty lengthy period of time, just sort of falls apart? Either the direction of their RP takes a turn you weren't expecting, or things just spin in some way that makes that character un-fun to play for yourself and for others. Or maybe there's a new class or race that just looks like WAY more fun. Or you have a new concept but OHLAWD dat MSQ gate. Either way, there's some defect in the character's lovability matrix, but there's also a HUGE deal of time and investment in the character, both emotionally as well as in relation to in-game advancement/items.

What do you do? Is it just a matter of "Fantasia and f**k it" or is there deeper thoughts on the matter? Has this happened to you, and what do you do?

Personally I find a situation like this very tug-o-war'ish. Like, there's a LOT of work and investment put down on this goofy little avatar and then just...something goes blah and you're caught between wanting to try again and wanting to salvage the situation.

I suppose there can be a tendency to think just about the character, and in this you have only your own perception and feelings to consider. I'd probably start with what is the essence of the char and then work out which bits you want to save and which to loose. Then some flubbery fudge can change the character. There are many that could fit and not cause any issues with acceptability.

What is more important, and different than just fantasing to a new character is other players and their characters. Any change to the character has to fit with them, and you really have to do it so you don't end up playing the change (oh they are that memory lost guy). What you really need to do is find a way to remove the negative parts in game. You can do this through RP and things that affect the character or things they try to change themselves. Get some counselling, have the "bad" magics syphoned off, have a breakdown.. etc.. Do it so people see it happening over time and they will accept it more.

(05-24-2015, 08:56 AM)Steel Wolf Wrote: [ -> ]So...hey, I was just sort of curious/wanting to pick the brain of the RPC on this topic.

What happens when you put together a character that, after a pretty lengthy period of time, just sort of falls apart? Either the direction of their RP takes a turn you weren't expecting, or things just spin in some way that makes that character un-fun to play for yourself and for others. Or maybe there's a new class or race that just looks like WAY more fun. Or you have a new concept but OHLAWD dat MSQ gate. Either way, there's some defect in the character's lovability matrix, but there's also a HUGE deal of time and investment in the character, both emotionally as well as in relation to in-game advancement/items.

What do you do? Is it just a matter of "Fantasia and f**k it" or is there deeper thoughts on the matter? Has this happened to you, and what do you do?

Personally I find a situation like this very tug-o-war'ish. Like, there's a LOT of work and investment put down on this goofy little avatar and then just...something goes blah and you're caught between wanting to try again and wanting to salvage the situation.

1. Give yourself a new mission/quest/goal. Adventures end and begin; why not start a new personal story for the the character? I've done this for myself in one of my story chains posted in the RPC, and even though I haven't updated it in a while, it's there to give my main a source of dramatic tension when he needs it, as well as connect him to my alts... eventually. There's room to grow, and that's what counts.

2. Change your circle a bit! Attend some events you haven't, RP in places where you haven't, and meet new people. I know, for instance, that I've never myself had a chance to RP with Steely.

3. Don't let the MSQ gate stop you from experimenting. Really, how much leveling do you need to do to RP a character?

(05-24-2015, 08:56 AM)Steel Wolf Wrote: [ -> ]So...hey, I was just sort of curious/wanting to pick the brain of the RPC on this topic.

What happens when you put together a character that, after a pretty lengthy period of time, just sort of falls apart?  Either the direction of their RP takes a turn you weren't expecting, or things just spin in some way that makes that character un-fun to play for yourself and for others.  Or maybe there's a new class or race that just looks like WAY more fun.  Or you have a new concept but OHLAWD dat MSQ gate.  Either way, there's some defect in the character's lovability matrix, but there's also a HUGE deal of time and investment in the character, both emotionally as well as in relation to in-game advancement/items.

What do you do?  Is it just a matter of "Fantasia and f**k it" or is there deeper thoughts on the matter?  Has this happened to you, and what do you do?

Personally I find a situation like this very tug-o-war'ish.  Like, there's a LOT of work and investment put down on this goofy little avatar and then just...something goes blah and you're caught between wanting to try again and wanting to salvage the situation.

When I first made Val, he was meant to be a selfish, womanizing bachelor that never settled for any woman and did whatever he wanted when he wanted to do it. I'd promised myself that he'd never actually fall for a woman and let it be that. ...Buuuut as most people know, that changed a few years ago.

It was kind of weird, for me, because I knew I was in control of the character and I just couldn't get my head around the idea of the character falling for the woman in question. She did things that would intrigue him and piss him off all at once, so naturally he gravitated towards her. In XIV, he managed to join a company and now occupies a higher position. He was meant to be a troublemaker that got into bar brawls and caused general good-hearted mischief and chaos where ever he went, be it by purposely insulting others or being an all-around, general dick. He can't much do that anymore, and I have to admit that the character has changed a lot from what I originally envisioned him to be. But I think that these kind of things should be embraced, right? I grew to like the changes and, despite me sometimes wanting to take him back to his roots at times, I find his new direction intriguing and fun to RP.

I agree that the situation can be very tug-of-warish as I've often gone back and forth on the matter. But I've put a lot into the character and I love the guy, so I've stuck with him and I think found a good balance in him needing to pick up this new mantle and grow up while holding on to what makes him, well.. him. 

I don't think there's anything wrong with abandoning the character if that's what you want, or making another. And as others have said, I don't think the MSQ gate should keep you from RPing what you want to RP. If you've got a level 4 that you want to RP as an Astrologian or a Dark Knight, who cares if you don't exactly look the part? I always treat the game as a medium for the RP and not take what it shows/has at face value. The only problem I'd see you facing is the people that do, or those that ignore lower leveled characters for.. well. Whatever reason.

Recently, a close friend of mine has rerolled her character about... three times now?

You'd think this would raise some sort of alarm. It could scream that they lack dedication or drive and commitment. Seeing it first hand, I can strongly disagree. A lot of different factors came into play. Luckily none of them drama related!

It's very possible to craft something that you are just flat out unhappy with. She made a lot of effort to flesh out the characters, tried different things and goals and eventually came to a brick wall. Long periods of RP were really great for her, but others fell really short. As I understand it, they kept it to themselves for a long time. Thinking that they were just being hasty and ended up retconning quite a few events.

I myself, didn't take a lot of issue with this. Fortunately, our friends didn't seem to mind either. It was some mild trouble here and there, but it wasn't a lost cause.

My point is, I don't believe that you have to completely sacrifice your own happiness to force something that you might not like as much as you intended. Life is far too short as they say, and your virtual pretendyman shouldn't be a brick in your birthday cake.

Sometimes, the best characters come from a little personal hiccup. Most of mine have, at least ones I've enjoyed. Ones that grow become really great with time!

I've only had a problem with once with a character long term.

Back in the day I used to play Aion and I had a version of Armi there (I tend to have a version of her in every game /badrper). In that version she was made a Daeva (An immortal being that fights for the government of whatever side your on, all Aion characters are Daeva's) and hated every minute of it, becoming obsessed with Death and mortality as she felt like it was taken away from her. It sounds good on paper - an immortal who wants to die but can't so fights like she has a death wish - and it worked for about 6-7 months. After about the 8th month the whole "I want to die, I never asked for this!" business got real old, to me and to everyone around the character. The problem I had was I never let her grow out of it, because without that one defining trait I had nothing else for the character. At about the 9th Month I just ended up quitting the game, didn't like it that much anyway and I started hating my own character in the process.

I learned a lot from the experience. The next time I rolled Armi (In TOR) I made her growth a lot more flexible (STARTING her as a Force User who believed in the Republic, but didn't believe in the Jedi ways making her a bit Dark Sided) and made sure I was okay with Armi eventually going to be taught by the Jedi or even turning completely to the Dark Side. Even though I had one sentence for her - I had to be okay with that sentence no longer being true.

Growth and change is massively important for a character, it's AS IMPORTANT for a character as it is for actual people. If a character is the exact same as they are when you roll them, you're going to find down the line they are going to easily stagnant and become increasingly boring. Change and Growth comes in a lot of ways - the easiest is trying to get yourself involved in FC plots or friends plots, even if your just a side character take it as a way to really get your character connected. My characters always start as side characters in a few plots, not really being that important but making important connections that will make her important later on and this has always worked well for me. Off screen roleplaying (Journals, or stories or even just things happening in your head) are really important too! Humans don't only grow around people, we do most of our growing with inner reflection.

If the character isn't working for you anymore, trying to pull them out of RP for awhile and then look at what you think went wrong along the way, then try to fix it. Even if a bad decision was made in a roleplay and you didn't really like it, it can be fixed without retconning. EVERYTHING can be fixed. At the end of the day you have 100% control of your character, figure out how to reconcile that bad decision and bring them back in line with where you really want them. All people make mistakes, and so do characters. If it's something you agreed to but don't really like it (Like say people were like "We wanna have you kidnapped and <thing> implanted in you that does <thing>" and you say "Yeah that sounds fun" but then it's not fun after the plot is over) figure out a way to get rid of it. It can be done completely in character without a retcon, just have them leave for awhile and when they come back thing is gone. Our FC head, Ellion, did this. Something happened in a plot, his character went to Othard for awhile, came back and magical Othard doctors helped him. No big.

Most things can be fixed. The one thing that can't be is the passion to play the character.

Aforementioned Ellion? Eventually, he decided he wasn't really happy playing a Miqote Male, and decided he would be happier playing an Au Ra. He had already retconned the character once (He was a highlander in 1.0, no one cared about the retcon cuz only like 4 of played back then and were the only ones who noticed ) but his character was so engrained in Miqote lore after the retcon he felt it would be cheap to retcon it again. Turning cat Ellion into an Au Ra by magic was out of the question for him, too. So, he figured out how to keep the name Ellion (Ellion being a title, not a name) and killed of Miqote Ellion a few weeks ago, pulling himself out of RP till Heavensward.

Despite the character being something he's played for a REALLY long time, he says he's already much happier with this decision. It as a personal one to him, and while all of us really liked the character (I loved that Ellion played his Miqote really really fierce and domineering, with an edge and a terrible temper. More like the beast from Beauty and the Beast ) he just wasn't happy. And no amount of fixing was going to make him happy. He was done with the character and we had to let him be done.

Really sit down and evaluate WHY you want to get rid of the character. Because you don't work through that and then decide to change, your going to regret it, especially if the feeling is temporary because there's a shiny new race on the horizon. But also don't be afraid of knowing when the character has really reached the end of it's story.

This is something that's happened to me a handful of times in the past and I still don't really know how best to deal with it unless said character simply has no connections left leaving you free to approach the situation however you want.

Even now it's happening on Vetiver, the main I've cherished from day one. I've had bad experience after bad experience on her, nearly every relationship forged ending up far, far away from anything intended, countless rejections unfairly suffered; I've more or less hit my breaking point now and it hurts. It hurts a lot. She's my baby and yet I've been more or less discouraged from ever stepping foot back into Eorzea on her. I've tried countlesss of things; attempts to move on at both IC and OOC levels, a number of retcons, etc., but none of it has really done the trick. At the end of the day the only things keeping Vetiver here are 1-2 RP obligations and small flickers of conceptual joy... her back story, personality, even that sad moon kitty face I came to adore; there's a part of me that has trouble letting go of it all.

I wish I had advice to give. I really, really do. Unfortunately this is one of those rare times where I'm the one that needs help because I just don't know what to do anymore. Even something as simple as writing about it puts me on the verge of tears. All I can really do is hope no one else ends up the situation I've found myself in; it's a serious emotional drain that no roleplayer deserves.

(05-24-2015, 06:48 PM)hauntmedoitagain Wrote: [ -> ]This is something that's happened to me a handful of times in the past and I still don't really know how best to deal with it unless said character simply has no connections left leaving you free to approach the situation however you want.

Even now it's happening on Vetiver, the main I've cherished from day one. I've had bad experience after bad experience on her, nearly every relationship forged ending up far, far away from anything intended, countless rejections unfairly suffered; I've more or less hit my breaking point now and it hurts. It hurts a lot. She's my baby and yet I've been more or less discouraged from ever stepping foot back into Eorzea on her. I've tried countlesss of things; attempts to move on at both IC and OOC levels, a number of retcons, etc., but none of it has really done the trick. At the end of the day the only things keeping Vetiver here are 1-2 RP obligations and small flickers of conceptual joy... her back story, personality, even that sad moon kitty face I came to adore; there's a part of me that has trouble letting go of it all.

I wish I had advice to give. I really, really do. Unfortunately this is one of those rare times where I'm the one that needs help because I just don't know what to do anymore. Even something as simple as writing about it puts me on the verge of tears. All I can really do is hope no one else ends up the situation I've found myself in; it's a serious emotional drain that no roleplayer deserves.

I'm sorry to hear that. I'm also in the process of re-evaluating things. Lot of stuff eating at me, but I've taken steps to try and get a fresh start, surround myself in an RP environment I enjoy. I'm paying monthly for this game, so it's best that I seek people and places that I enjoy it with most, and try my best to defuse the woes and stress that keeps me from doing so.

Faye was originally meant to be a sort of antagonist when I made her back yeeeeeears ago for a forum RP. It worked in forum RP, where the scale was smaller and I had an endless list of characters I could alternate between if I really pleased. But in an MMO, it's difficult to main an antagonist--especially when you lead a guild IC and OOC (and a good-aligned one, at that). Needless to say, the Faye I role-play now is far from the original character concept. I do miss the more antagonistic, less humanized Faye and hope I will have a chance to role-play the character or something similar again... but at the same time, I'm all right with the difference because I know the changes were made for practicality and convenience for the setting in which we're role-playing.

On the other hand, I had another character who was supposed to be sort of tragic, so I threw a lot of hurdles her way in her backstory and her storyline. ...unfortunately, it just so happened that all of the people I role-played with also seemed to have a desire to throw a lot tragedy her way. The character became miserable, selfish, and depressed to the point she was emotionally draining to play and so unfriendly, misanthropic, and stand-offish that getting interaction on her was near impossible. I didn't want to outright retcon her, so I pushed the story in certain directions I knew would make the character more bearable, and it worked well enough (though is still sort of a work in progress).

I come up with a basic concept, then a story, then leave it to simmer for a while. If by the time I'm ready to actually pick up the character, I find I don't like either of the concept or the story, I dump it.
That's why I dumped Aurimont, Cwinuwil, etc.

It may be that you might have run the gamut with your character. I certainly felt that way with my Blood Elf in WoW. She started out as a villain in Burning Crusade, with somewhat of a soft spot for lost, lonely people. The thing is she CONTINUALLY ran into these types who were kind to her, and over time, she grew less resistant to their kindness and slowly, slowly changed. By the time WotLK came to a close, she was a downright girl scout. But I felt good about it. I felt the change came naturally and gradually and I was actually a little proud of the moral standards she had developed. 

When Cataclysm ground to a halt, I felt my character was tired. She had been through a near genocide, committed terrible acts in the name of her people, redeemed herself, helped in the war against countless legions of undead, helped with the reconstruction and recovery efforts for the Horde, got married, and started thinking about family. She'd been through all that, and I felt it was time to put her to bed, but I felt good about it. Now I like to think of her as a surly housewife who makes ridiculous, explosive gadgets and burned dinner for her husband. A far cry from her days as an agent provocateur. It makes me smile to think about it.

What I'm saying is, while I believe any character can be salvaged, sometimes a character is just "done." Of course, only can know this for sure, but I thought I'd offer a different perspective.

This has been an enlightening thread and I do hope it continues, because there's obviously folks who have or are currently dealing with the sort of situation I posited here. As a matter of fact, in response to hauntme, I really REALLY do hope you find your fire for your character...or at least find a way to re-imagine that character. Hobbies should heal, not hurt. All the hugs.

I maybe should clarify that this question was brought up to my head in reaction to an article I had read about MMO characters that you love. The opposite came to mind--what about ones you hate? And how do the folks at this forum whom I respect and luff deal with that?

Ideally, this thread will be a place where people can talk about a situation like that and perhaps offer advice or help for folks who might be running in to that wall.

As this topic relates to Steel...she is nearing that point in my head, but I have some plans to give this wandering warrior a purpose and cause to fight for. She's been aloof and going with the flow for long enough. She needs a reason to fight that's bigger than herself and the basic complaints of a mercenary or a levequest.

She needs to get a reason to learn how to be a hero. And she needs to be emotionally invested in something for once.

Usually when I get tired of a character, whether it's after a couple weeks or a couple years, it's a slow descent into oblivion. And in the end, I just leave them there to collect dust when I move on to whatever's next. That's easy in games like WoW, GW2, and TOR where the solution is to just pick a different character to love. Here, where you lose so much input by not using Fantasia, there's more of a decision required.

This is actually my second FFXIV character. My first I burnt to the ground when my real life collided with my capacity to enjoy the game in a violently emotional way, leaving me hating the fact that he existed at all for completely irrational reasons. I'd never done anything like that before. For his story, rather than flat out retcon, which is what I wanted to do in my fit of angst, I offered a sort of supernatural approach, where all the NPCs and players who didn't want to bother figuring out what to do with his sudden disappearance simply forgot he ever existed, and people who wanted to remember him for whatever reason could, but had to deal with his sudden vanishing however they best saw fit. I wrote a little story to go along with it, but the whole situation was crude and inconsiderate of everyone he interacted with. I just wanted him gone so badly.

I jumped to a different server and used my Fantasia with no intention of returning. What happens after that is a new story.

Nowadays he exists in a strange sort of dead/not-dead space full of uneasy questions and unpalatable mystery. There are days I want to bring him back. There are days I feel obligated to bring him back. But those feelings rarely last for long. It's not that I like this current character better, but she seems to be better for me, for the way I play now, for keeping my RP interactions in a relaxed, expendable place where I can play with her if I want to but I never feel like I need to.

I don't recommend the path I took, though in retrospect, I'm not sure I could have or would have done it differently, and I don't regret it, even though the whole situation was a disagreeable mess. I kind of like that he still exists in a floaty, incorporeal sort of way, should I ever want to use him for anything or even play him full time again someday, though I doubt either will ever happen to any real strength.

I've had this problem several times in the past in other MMOs/RPs. That said, I'll be the first to admit that I probably could have handled the situation better, particularly in the ways that impact those who said character played with. While I didn't really do major knee-jerk reactions, I used to be pretty bad about just sort of stepping back whenever I'd hit those walls and not really know what to do. It'd wind up in this vicious cycle:


When this would happen, I'd usually try my best to at least stay in touch OOCly with people in case they'd need me to discuss their own stuff if they were still playing-- but sometimes it was some portion of my 'main' partners who were the problem in the first place and so I would naturally distance myself altogether, often times as a defense mechanism for my own IRL pscyhe (not wanting to upset them, for example.) This was the worst back when I was first getting into the MMO RP scene though and I've honestly learned a lot about what particular sort of things seem to alienate me and how to watch for the IC warning signs early enough to divert them. 

I've also learned that, personally, one of the best ways of dealing with this problem nowadays is OOC communication before IC actions. I find talking with the partners most involved and just expressing my unhappiness (without accusing anyone, of course) has worked wonders. Generally, if you're unhappy, your partners have already picked up on that and the quality of the RPs has already deteriorated-- which means your partners, too, would probably like a change. So often, I've been able to resolve the problem by just opening the lines of communication and asking for help on brainstorming how to fix it. That way, everyone gets a say, and they might have ideas I hadn't even thought of. Frankly, some of the storylines that I've loved most have been born from these exact conversations where we come up with new plots or angles that help really re-ignite my love for the character or at least otherwise get them back on track where I want them.

I also find that, like others have already mentioned, I'm better off doing my best to stay flexible and open to change. I've had countless characters now who started as one thing but, over time, evolved into something completely different as a result of their interactions. (Carefree and chaotic neutral wanderer turns into burdened, chaotic good anti-hero. Villain who spends the first few years of his IC life garnering hatred and fear from the RPC slowly begins to lose his power and shift in his alignment thanks to the efforts of a dedicated few-- and oh my god, the intrigue and consequences that result. I love conflict myself though and I also enjoyed the fact that he would be forever polarized for his past actions. He would never be forgiven in most ways and the threat of someone killing him-- for damn good reasons-- was very real.) Again though-- OOC communication played a major role in helping those transitions stay comfortable for myself and the others involved.

If all else fails though? It's time for a break. Seriously. I just try to do myself a favor these days and /recognize/ when I need these breaks rather than just taking them without warning. At least then I have time to come up with an IC reason why said character isn't around. That way, if my motivation comes back, I've hopefully mitigated the damage to others' characters and can return when I'm ready-- hopefully without anyone having hard feelings. I try not to do anything that can't be undone though, because I never know when the urge might strike.

I felt lost with my character, so I killed her off.

I am very happy with my two current characters. However if I feel lost with them they might go away as well.

No story is meant to go on forever.