Hydaelyn Role-Players

I've got a Lalafellin alt who I roleplay as a Brass Blade. I simply have NOT had the time to level her PLD to 50 and grind out AK and WP for the Vermillion set's pieces and the Sipahi Turban. Instead, I stick her in rust red haubergeons and gauntlets and such. It gets even worse with this alt of mine because she's also supposed to be a capable thaumaturge and conjurer, and yet I've barely leveled those classes at ALL compared to PLD. So I understand and sympathize with those in similar situations, even if I raise an eyebrow from time to time with people who haven't leveled the main class/job of their main character.

(06-25-2015, 03:18 AM)Caspar Wrote: [ -> ]Melikre: I seem to have misunderstood you. I got the impression you equated something as mundane in a fantasy setting as ranged physical blows as outlandish as the miqo'te example and would avoid it at all costs due to OOC bias. That seemed unreasonable to me so I pointed it out, but if you're saying you'd roll with it despite it not being *personally* your style, as long as a reason for it that makes sense exists, then I can't really claim you're overly inflexible. That's more or less how I do things with less overt suspicion; if a player does something out of the boundaries of their stated profession, I just usually ask for some elaboration OOC so I know how to respond and whether my character should know about it. I would be discouraged to see people with visibility on the forum avoiding skilled rpers with detailed explanations as to why their character can do things outside of the canon class, simply because their approach to rping did not mesh with the gritty Europhile hyur blood and iron sort of rp that seems overwhelmingly popular these days and yet is not held up in the slightest by the setting. It inevitably happens regardless of what people talk about on the forums, but I want to stress openmindedness, not simply avoiding having a preference entirely.

That and what I always stress, that it's okay to not suck or be mundane, and the overwhelming pressure to conform and "not snowflake" on the forum is stifling to creativity sometime. I see things that reduce what is considered acceptable play, such as people relying on IC level to determine proficiency in a job, as to a certain extent part of that. In any case, I don't mind people using the approach but only because I'm lucky enough to play PVE obsessively too. It isn't always fair to people who do not progress, and I want to help others feel like their character has the appropriate credibility for the given rp at hand.

Peer pressure, being what it is, tends to be unavoidable. Folks will inevitably run into social norms/standards/what-have-you that settle into place that arise not through any malicious intent but from individual decisions as to what said individuals want and/or don't want. It's a shitty situation, to be sure. Keeping an open mind helps, of course, but I'd really not care to see folk's preferences laid by the wayside to accommodate other people's preferences because at that point we're still playing favorites, except then we're doing so deliberately.

...I'm intrigued about this perceived "gritty Europhile hyur blood and iron sort of rp" you mentioned. Putting aside my curiosity as to what "Europhile" has to do with anything, are you referring to the distinction between what's commonly referred to as low fantasy and high fantasy? Because that's worth a thread all on its own.

It has to do with the recent popularity of medieval European martial arts, both as a hobby and in fiction, whereas in past decades, martial arts in entertainment usually ignored them. I'd go into it more, but I don't want it to develop into a tangent any more than it has. It had a bit to do with the idea that the air waves were unrealistic, when in reality they were really mundane given what people are capable of in the setting, especially since a prominent NPC did just that. I guess having a fist full of smaller swords is no go, but a long sword is? I dunno, maybe I'm exaggerating a bit because I've lost count of how many times a meat and potatoes, sword and board player called something like that "too anime," but I just saw it as an example of uneven and arbitrary skepticism. A pet peeve of mine is that uneven application of "realism" in an unrealistic setting, ever since my D&D days.

What matters to me is not necessarily whether or not a class canonically has done or can do something, but whether or not it is explainable or fits properly anyway into the story being told. If people can do amazing things in setting, then I give them the benefit of the doubt and let them explain away. Better to be open than closed. I think mostly my particular point there was just pointing out that inconsistency, rather than arguing for an universal level of "gritty," "adventurous" or "cinematic" storytelling, as that depends on the players and stories written to each level of believability can exist under certain specific conditions in the game setting.

(06-24-2015, 02:40 PM)Dogberry Wrote: [ -> ]If you're going to RP a character and not level them, why even subscribe to the game? You'd probably be a lot better suited doing forum RP. Gaia Online is over there, bro.

Quote:Edit: I should also add that Forum RP bores me to tears.

You may have answered your own question there.


Truth be told, when I first read your post, I was a little upset with its contents. I took your post personally because I am a player who subscribes to FFXIV for roleplay. I do enjoy content but it is not the main reason why I am here.


I realize in hindsight that you probably weren't speaking to roleplayers like me with this post. Mostly, because I do have a leveled character. (Though technically not anymore, heh.)


After first posting and then going back and reading the entire thread, your posts do come off as a little harsh before you explain them in greater depth in the latter pages of the thread, Dogberry.


I did want to bring up this post to at least say that I can sympathize with people who never hit max level. Roleplaying on MMOs is my favorite medium of roleplay. You're going to get fast response times, (IMO faster than IMs because the other person in IM RP is usually doing something else while RPing), premade worlds, avatars you can make yourself without any artistic ability, immersive graphics, etc.


There is a lot of reasons for why someone who is not that interested in a MMO playstyle but is interested in RP would choose to come here over other places. That's not to deter you from the points that you were making but rather just to give you some insight on a perspective that might seem a little strange to you.

In the end, it comes to down to people roleplaying how they want to play. Some favor story and presentation of their character in roleplay more than running all over the game doing PvE. And that's fine. I level my characters not to show off their power, but because I do enjoy the pve aspect of the game. As someone who started in RP tabletop, I understood the necessity of stats, but at 17, I got into online chatroom RP, and we had no stats there. It was all freeform, you just had to be creative enough at writing to back up your claims and convince the others you had those capabilities. I think that's the biggest issue is being convincing. At the crux of this argument, you have two basic sides. One who will think you can't RP powerful without the mechanics supporting it. And the other who would rather take the..I guess for lack of a better word, 'purity' of the roleplay itself to decide. Cowboys and Indians didn't have gearscores, assigned levels, or any of that but as kids, we played it just fine.


I have characters who are powerful who are leveled, and who aren't leveled. Honestly because..well..I dislike grinding. I can only work on one character at a time, and only for so many hours before the repetitive grind gets on my nerves and I have to quit. I'm notorious for having little attention span for constantly repeating actions, and after a while the dungeons all look and feel the same to me. So I take RP breaks. Sometimes for days, weeks. And no leveling happens. But my character is still the same, or grows through the RP rather than the grinding. If a level 1 character can thoroughly convince me beyond a shadow of a doubt that she's a Primal in disguise and can suplex a train, hell, I'll roll with it. Because if someone can convince me of that, it means their description or ideas are rich and creative, and I've found a gem to RP with.


If they can't convince me, or just want raw power without reasonable creativity, then well. I'll just RP not really taking them seriously, because that's how I'd react. If someone tells you they're Jesus (no offense to anyone genuinely faithful/religious), you're gonna have doubts. But if they can show you the miracles, then yeah, you'd probably be convinced. If someone can reasonably show me *why* their character can do things like that then I'm fine. Your level doesn't matter. Though my character might wonder why you're so strong and still wear those ratty clothes, but hey. With great power often comes great insanity.

The only reason I generally level the classes tied to my IC abilities is so I can get a feel for how they work, then I add my own flavor to it. But that's my choice, and if someone else's choice is different, it's not my call to make how powerful their character is in roleplay. I mentioned this a while back in a thread..mm..I think it was on magic, and how you use it on your characters. But I digress. To me, OOC achievement is not necessary for high-powered RP. Just like doing nothing but PvP does not make your character a better fighter IC. Gearscore=/=IC power. Maybe it seems odd to me, but applying an RP powerlevel to items and abilities acquired in PvE and not RP..seems the foreign entity. When I PvE it's generally seperate from my RP because..well, pugs, honestly. I get most of my gear pugging. And I'm not going to count that as RP, because it wasn't. So the gear and levels I got have nothing to do with my actual RP, so yeah. I can't viably connect them other than by being able to click my numkeys and show off my shiny in-game skill. Meh.

I guess to each their own, but I'd rather play with a person who's an IC badass and so creative about it they can prove it regardless of what their mechanical level is and make it fun, than someone who says they're stronger than you on principle because their gearscore/in game level lords over yours. It smacks of someone being powerful because of button clicking, not character building. Which makes no sense on its own. Just my two gil.

I voted "somewhat important". Personally, I'd like to get out of the bars and out into the open world a little more. IC dungeon runs, IC hunts, or just running around in the world in character. Being a higher level lets you go to more dungeons and safely navigate other places without the threat of death. I'm level 41 now, and while I'm a little tired of being a Coerthas errand boy for the Scions, I've also been able to go to some amazing places in the game that I wouldn't have been able to explore without being clobbered.

I wouldn't judge anyone based on their gear. I personally don't have the patience or desire to do extensive grinding for any gear, and I tend not to like endgame gear in any game because it's often pretty over the top.

Excuse me for the double post, but I feel like repeating a question I asked back on page 6 that was so far ignored, since I am pretty interested in others' opinions of the matter:

On the topic of the grand company gear though, does it mean that people will scowl if I use an alt that claims to be Ishgardian even though he isn't past 2.55 and as such has no access to Ishgard? Food for thought.


This being because I have two characters that are Ishgardian (well, one is Coerthan to be exact...) but they're both um... still lv47, and pretty far from gaining access to Ishgard (many thanks, Yoshi-P). Should I refrain from RPing them at all until their progress is sufficient for them to be around Ishgard?

I feel that if you're going to portray your character as the 'best' of something, you should at least put the effort into unlocking all their skills. This is still, first and foremost, an MMORPG. I can't take the guy who spent all his life training to be an elite -whatever- seriously when he doesn't even have the class unlocked. I'm sorry.

We expect it for crafters, don't we? Why isn't the same rules applied to adventuring?

It is of my opinion that when you spend a large majority of your roleplay trying to convince everyone how much of a bad ass you are, you need to actually go out there and prove that you're a bad ass once in a while.

'We' don't expect it of crafters. I don't doubt someone's IC ability to do a craft just because they don't have the fancy 50+ Crafter clothing. Saying we expect it of crafters is a bit of a sweeping statement. I've never done such a thing. The statement also has a bit of a false ring there; how does one 'prove' one is a badass in roleplay by doing mindless pve grind and acquiring over the top shiny outfits and super duper magic weapons?



I don't think it has anything to do with roleplay at all aside from fancy duds. Well, unless all of your dungeons are RP dungeons and it genuinely fits into the roleplay history of your character as having visited those places. Yes, this is an MMO. But just as there are people who pvp all the time and people who pve all the time, again, there are people that roleplay all the time. And refusing to acknowledge their character advancement in roleplay they've legitimately done and put real work into because they didn't go grind World of Darkness all day seems a bit of a snub. They work just as hard, by roleplaying their character, spending hours developing their story, interacting with others. So are you saying the work they put in creatively is less equal to the work someone else puts in button mashing and yelling at bad healers and tanks when a group wipes?

(06-28-2015, 12:57 PM)Addison Wrote: [ -> ]I feel that if you're going to portray your character as the 'best' of something, you should at least put the effort into unlocking all their skills. This is still, first and foremost, an MMORPG. I can't take the guy who spent all his life training to be an elite -whatever-  seriously when he doesn't even have the class unlocked. I'm sorry.

We expect it for crafters, don't we? Why isn't the same rules applied to adventuring?

It is of my opinion that when you spend a large majority of your roleplay trying to convince everyone how much of a bad ass you are, you need to actually go out there and prove that you're a bad ass once in a while.

I don't expect it for crafters.  If someone wants to say they're a good chef, and then they buy the pieces of food they 'give' someone off the market board, instead of making it themselves?  Or just describe it?  That's fine.  

The crafting system isn't really all that realistic either.  As long as a player can describe the process of what they're making, that's fine for me.  I'd rather see someone explain out the process of stitching a coat, than I would to see them hit a couple of buttons and hand me a player-made piece of gear.  

The first would make for an interesting role-play, as Glioca likes watching other artisans practice their craft.  The second, to me, speaks of laziness in a RPer.  When Glioca makes her candies, I describe everything out, and don't bother making Pearl Chocolates with my 50 Culinarian, because that isn't role-play, that's game mechanics.  And the two are most decidedly not the same thing.

I'm a little biased in this regard, since this was the first game I ever RPed in. When I started RPing I was already lvl 50 Paladin, so when I would talk to random people in the quicksand, they'd ask:

"Ah, so what do you do in the city?"

And well fuck, I guess I'm a Paladin. Despite knowing better, I still let that sort of OOC stuff drive my RP. Like my first well geared crafter was Alchemist, so Evangeline, my second character, ended up being a skilled alchemist.

I'm the kind of RPer that's better at adapting things than pulling them out of nowhere. I would find it a little hard to have my character's OOC status have nothing to do with the character I RP'd. I don't have any issue if other people do it, but for me personally it's hard.

Plus you don't get to wear the pretty outfits :c

(06-28-2015, 01:46 PM)Arklonn Sargonnai Wrote: [ -> ]So are you saying the work they put in creatively is less equal to the work someone else puts in button mashing and yelling at bad healers and tanks when a group wipes?

People discredit legitimate effort put into PvE and PvP all the time. Look at this very poll. As of writing this, 57% of respondents say it isn't important at all, despite this being an MMORPG where PvE and PvP are the focus.

I'm not saying one is less equal to the other. I'm saying there needs to be a balance (contrary to what the majority of roleplayers think), and if someone wants to take the title of King Badass, they need to prove it both creatively and within the mechanics of the game. Otherwise, you're just blowing smoke up peoples' asses.

(06-28-2015, 02:10 PM)Addison Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-28-2015, 01:46 PM)A Wrote: [ -> ]So are you saying the work they put in creatively is less equal to the work someone else puts in button mashing and yelling at bad healers and tanks when a group wipes?

People discredit legitimate effort put into PvE and PvP all the time. Look at this very poll. As of writing this, 57% of respondents say it isn't important at all, despite this being an MMORPG where PvE and PvP are the focus.

I'm not saying one is less equal to the other. I'm saying there needs to be a balance (contrary to what the majority of roleplayers think), and if someone wants to take the title of King Badass, they need to prove it both creatively and within the mechanics of the game. Otherwise, you're just blowing smoke up peoples' asses.

If you walk up and try to tell me you're powerful just because you're in Demon armor from World of Darkness, Glioca's going to look you square in the face and laugh her ass off.  For all she knows, that's just some cheap replica, and you're some scrub punk trying to make yourself look tougher than you are.  

Now, if you role-play out being powerful and strong, and your description is good, she's more likely to believe it.  

All a higher level means is better looking gear and more gearsets to use for RP cosmetic purposes.  That's it.  Period.  

PvE and PvP skill doesn't equal RP skill.  It just doesn't.  

One is smashing buttons and knowing when to get the hell out of an AoE attack.  

The other is a creative writing exercise where you're interacting with different people and writing a story together.  

It's like telling someone that writes fiction for a living that until they write a non-fiction book, they're not a writer.  The two have nothing to do with one another.

In my mind - you need to have backed up your actions.

Someone who RPs that they, say, defeated a primal, I'm gonna expect you at least got that far in the MSQ. This is a bad example, but you get what I mean.