Hydaelyn Role-Players

Mod note: Conversation split from here http://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/showthread....#pid202126

(08-01-2015, 05:33 PM)hauntmedoitagain Wrote: [ -> ]Limsa has a notable lesbian pirate bar.

But she's not a lesbian. She and that other pirate guy have a thing/not-thing going on.

And the bar isn't a lesbian bar. One of the NPCs explicitly says "The Sirens don't 'ave time for men, unless they's warmin' our beds."

Please don't say untrue things and try to pass them off as true.

(08-02-2015, 04:17 AM)KitKat Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-01-2015, 05:33 PM)hauntmedoitagain Wrote: [ -> ]Limsa has a notable lesbian pirate bar.

But she's not a lesbian. She and that other pirate guy have a thing/not-thing going on.

And the bar isn't a lesbian bar. One of the NPCs explicitly says "The Sirens don't 'ave time for men, unless they's warmin' our beds."

Please don't say untrue things and try to pass them off as true.

It's called the 'Missing Member'.

It might not strictly be a 'Lesbian Bar' but it's very clearly a female centric gathering point, primarily built around empowerment of female sexuality, and disliking of the 'ol gravy hose (at least on premises). I agree it's not 100% portrayed as a Lesbian bar, but I think there are enough hints to treat it as such.

It's like if there was a bar in Ul'dah called, "The Throbbing Cock" and only dudes were there, and the NPCs were saying 'Heh, women are lame'. One could assume it was in fact a gay bar, even if there wasn't a male NPC shouting 'I LOVE DICK'.

(08-02-2015, 05:26 AM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-02-2015, 04:17 AM)KitKat Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-01-2015, 05:33 PM)hauntmedoitagain Wrote: [ -> ]Limsa has a notable lesbian pirate bar.

But she's not a lesbian. She and that other pirate guy have a thing/not-thing going on.

And the bar isn't a lesbian bar. One of the NPCs explicitly says "The Sirens don't 'ave time for men, unless they's warmin' our beds."

Please don't say untrue things and try to pass them off as true.

It's called the 'Missing Member'.

It might not strictly be a 'Lesbian Bar' but it's very clearly a female centric gathering point, primarily built around empowerment of female sexuality, and disliking of the 'ol gravy hose (at least on premises). I agree it's not 100% portrayed as a Lesbian bar, but I think there are enough hints to treat it as such.

It's like if there was a bar in Ul'dah called, "The Throbbing Cock" and only dudes were there, and the NPCs were saying 'Heh, women are lame'. One could assume it was in fact a gay bar, even if there wasn't a male NPC shouting 'I LOVE DICK'.

But there's specifically a female NPC saying exactly that outside the Missing Member.

The bar is, and -only- is, a female-centric bar. Claiming it is a lesbian bar is untrue. Bringing a lesbian character to the bar is fine. But let's not spout off facts that are, in fact, not facts.

Facts are: There are no hints that it is a lesbian bar. The captain, Rhoswen (a female), was ready and willing to be matched up with the rival pirate, Carvallain (a male) in the Valentione's quests. The female NPC (nameless) outside of the doors says what I said earlier. O'kalkaya, who stands at the edge of the bridge leading to the Missing Member, says "...Just watch yer tongue 'round Cap'n Rhoswen! Last man that didn't? Well, 'e's a member no more, if ye catch me drift." This suggests that the name of the bar isn't because men are unwelcome and it's full of lesbians, but because a man pissed her off and she cut his junk off.

Now, I'm done derailing this topic, but I thought I'd jump in to make sure that when people say things, they make sure they're stating facts.

(08-02-2015, 05:45 AM)KitKat Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-02-2015, 05:26 AM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-02-2015, 04:17 AM)KitKat Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-01-2015, 05:33 PM)hauntmedoitagain Wrote: [ -> ]Limsa has a notable lesbian pirate bar.

But she's not a lesbian. She and that other pirate guy have a thing/not-thing going on.

And the bar isn't a lesbian bar. One of the NPCs explicitly says "The Sirens don't 'ave time for men, unless they's warmin' our beds."

Please don't say untrue things and try to pass them off as true.

It's called the 'Missing Member'.

It might not strictly be a 'Lesbian Bar' but it's very clearly a female centric gathering point, primarily built around empowerment of female sexuality, and disliking of the 'ol gravy hose (at least on premises). I agree it's not 100% portrayed as a Lesbian bar, but I think there are enough hints to treat it as such.

It's like if there was a bar in Ul'dah called, "The Throbbing Cock" and only dudes were there, and the NPCs were saying 'Heh, women are lame'. One could assume it was in fact a gay bar, even if there wasn't a male NPC shouting 'I LOVE DICK'.

But there's specifically a female NPC saying exactly that outside the Missing Member.

The bar is, and -only- is, a female-centric bar. Claiming it is a lesbian bar is untrue. Bringing a lesbian character to the bar is fine. But let's not spout off facts that are, in fact, not facts.

Facts are: There are no hints that it is a lesbian bar. The captain, Rhoswen (a female), was ready and willing to be matched up with the rival pirate, Carvallain (a male) in the Valentione's quests. The female NPC (nameless) outside of the doors says what I said earlier. O'kalkaya, who stands at the edge of the bridge leading to the Missing Member, says "...Just watch yer tongue 'round Cap'n Rhoswen! Last man that didn't? Well, 'e's a member no more, if ye catch me drift." This suggests that the name of the bar isn't because men are unwelcome and it's full of lesbians, but because a man pissed her off and she cut his junk off.

Now, I'm done derailing this topic, but I thought I'd jump in to make sure that when people say things, they make sure they're stating facts.

Also, I'm pretty certain this is an implication of straight sex:


It's not a lesbian bar, simply a crew of dominatrix/female empowerment style women. They consider men inferior and play with them like that.

It seems to me as though there's misinformation being spread about the place. I've seen it referred to as a 'lesbian bar' on more than one occasion in both an IC and OOC capacity. As this thread highlights, however, it isn't a bar catering specifically to lesbians.

I hold the firm belief that if people want stuff like that then they should, in fact, make use of player housing and/or personal rooms to reflect it. It's a pretty solid compromise since it helps counter the awkwardness that arises when role-players take over a particular location out in the game world and then try to claim it's something completely different to what it's actually established as being.

This thread title is unintentionally hilarious.

Also everyone's assessment of whether or not it has an aspect of lesbianism in it, is using a very modern, eurocentric definition of homosexuality, that is a byproduct of christianity.

I would argue that homosexuality in Eorzea would be much more likely to take the appearance of cultures historically that have had no issues with homosexuality, like greece, persia, japan, etc. In those places it was totally normal for many adult males to prefer men sexually, but understand that they had to have sex with women in order to have children.

In Sparta there is a famous description of how spartan women would dress as warriors for their first night of marriage, since that was what the men found comforting sexually.

What I'm getting at, is I do feel like the Missing Member is still a Lesbian bar, focused around female sexuality and sisterhood (and eating muff), the fact that they also go fuck dudes, or otherwise boss them around has no impact on that. It lines up with the way sexuality is presented in the game, and it also makes sense based on the form homosexuality took historically in societies where it was not considered shameful.

Yes I cannot prove that naughty things go on between the patrons, but I think it is more likely than not.

People try really hard to look for the things they want to see and justify their own fantasies. But nah, it's a bar for cut throat pirate ladies (some of whom may be lesbians), not a lesbian bar.

(08-02-2015, 12:48 PM)Graeham Wrote: [ -> ]since it helps counter the awkwardness that arises when role-players take over a particular location out in the game world and then try to claim it's something completely different to what it's actually established as being.

An exclusively lesbian bar or not (because places can have multiple functions), male characters should not expect to enter the establishment IC and not get hassled.

(08-02-2015, 02:18 PM)Intaki Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-02-2015, 12:48 PM)Graeham Wrote: [ -> ]since it helps counter the awkwardness that arises when role-players take over a particular location out in the game world and then try to claim it's something completely different to what it's actually established as being.

An exclusively lesbian bar or not (because places can have multiple functions), male characters should not expect to enter the establishment IC and not get hassled.

Yet their cook is a man, as shown through the 3.0 CUL quests.

I'd say the place caters to women, but I don't think they necessarily would hassle all men.

More even than any women, I think that the place has been pretty much taken over by that pirate crew in red clothes (I don't know if it has been ENSTABLISHED by them, though, but their behavior and the bar's name do kinda match). What they do with men is rather obvious both to speech bubbles and related quests. Of course, other patrons that for some reason wish to go to that bar are free to be lesbians or act however else they like.

Their cook is tolerated because he's outright the best cook outside of the Bismarck for malms on end.

(08-02-2015, 02:30 PM)Kellach Woods Wrote: [ -> ]Their cook is tolerated because he's outright the best cook outside of the Bismarck for malms on end.

This precisely. We see two men in the Missing Member, and both of them are their because they are deemed useful by the women who run the place.

Given how FFXIV portrays sexuality, it seems like it doesn't really matter too much what the women of the Missing Member like in their sexual partner's pants. The game seems to casually show couples of all kinds (yay :D), so there are probably all kinds of connections being made there.

I was always just under the impression that it was a bar more geared towards women patrons, without necessarily being a gay bar or a straight bar or whatever. But women who are into other women would probably find the place more interesting as a result, so it would end up giving off the impression of being "for lesbians," without actually having that as a goal.

I think it's just a little hard to label well because we don't really have that sort of thing IRL as much, at least as far as I've seen (I don't go out much, so apologies if I'm wrong). Usually it's just normal bar vs. gay bar?

Also it just occured to me that it would be a bit silly if the Missing Member had a "ladies night" like many bars around here have. Maybe they'd have a "mens night" every now and then in an attempt to bring in some new members. :P

EDIT: added pun at the end because I couldn't resist

I'm on vacation right now, so I can't go and visit the Missing Member myself, but if someone in game would be so kind as to go and talk to the Lalafell NPC standing outside the Missing Member to the right. Talk to her and she'll specifically tell you that, despite the establishment's name, men are very much allowed. Not just "tolerated." Just... if you're smart... don't piss off Rhoswen, or else you'll end up like that last man who did who is now missing a member. Hence the bar's name.

EDIT: (Added quote in question)

Melkoko Wrote:Greetings and welcome to the Missing Member! No, really, all people are welcome to dine here! There is absolutely no danger of dismemberment!

A bit of 1.0 history! There's a reason the Sanguine Sirens are predominantly female.
If you recall back to Sastasha normal mode, you come across several maidens trapped by Reavers. Rhoswen's crew is made up of (often times) battered women Rhoswen rescued from such situations like slavery, abusive husbands, or downtrodden females of Limsa Lominsa. Many of Rhoswen's crew (and its hinted that Rhoswen as well) have had rather graphic-ly violent histories involving men. It's not that they're lesbians. Though some undoubtedly may be LGBT. The Sanguine Sirens, first and foremost, are a pirate crew of survivors determined to not only get past past trauma, but to overcome, and become better than those who preyed upon them before.

(08-02-2015, 02:29 PM)Blue Wrote: [ -> ](I don't know if it has been ENSTABLISHED by them, though, but their behavior and the bar's name do kinda match)

And yes, the Missing Member was established by Rhoswen shortly after the Calamity when the Knights of the Barracuda took over training Marauders instead of the pirates who gathered on the Astalicia. That said, we don't know whether Rhoswen's old ship, Lady Infernal, survived the Calamity. If she lost the ship, it might explain why she moved on land to establish the bar?