Hydaelyn Role-Players

(08-24-2015, 12:43 PM)Unnamed Mercenary Wrote: [ -> ]Someone who played WoW correct me if I'm wrong (I never did).

...did WoW expansions require progression on every character to access new areas like the current system in FFXIV? Or was that progression unlocked account-wide as long as one character existed that could get to a new area?

I can and DO understand the gripes about having to chug through the story again for alts. There's a reason mine are below level 10 for the most part. One of the consequences of FFXIV being designed as a "your one character can do everything!" game is that it's extremely alt-unfriendly. SE looks to hopefully be changing that at least starting from now.


Off-topic side-note: We also haven't even gotten 3.1 yet. Let's uh...try to hold off potential anger at 4.0 which is probably 2+ years away?

Nope.  Nope, nope, nope.

In most cases, every area is open from the day the expansion drops, and you just have to choose where you want to go (considering character level, of course).  If a zone requires an unlock, it's normally an extremely brief set of quests that must be completed by all characters, and it's an endgame zone (i.e. Timeless Isle, Taanan Jungle).

If you're talking about raid instances, attunements haven't really been a thing since BC, but there was a quasi-attunement in MoP for Terrace of Endless Spring that required you to clear Heart of Fear before you could enter the instance.  The bitching was amazing.

(08-24-2015, 04:00 PM)Ashe Wrote: [ -> ]This whole thing annoys me. FF14 shouldn't be like WoW where people assume the story isn't everything...it's kind of ridiculous in my opinion. It's really obvious the ones complaining were the ones who joined super late and most likely left WoW for FF14. The whole "Marketing ploy" thing is total BS because content was always locked, even in 2.x, if you weren't at a certain point in the story. I play this game for the story and lore...I am an RPer and I am an FF fan who likes the game aspect of...this game >>
So yeah....When I saw this news, I was super disappointed. I liked that FF14 set itself apart with it's own rules and it made sense! I don't get why RPers are mad about not being able to skip past the story...wouldn't you want to know the lore that you learn through everything?

Okay, no one is saying that it has to be like WoW, but you really do need to allow for people who play the game differently from you.  Not everyone is into the story.  Not everyone is into the dungeons.  Not everyone is into the raiding.  Why is it okay to be into the story and not into dungeons or raiding, but not okay to be into dungeons and raiding but really not want to be gated by a continuing story?

I really don't get it, and I actually like the story.

I was going to post this earlier but got distracted with making some other points.
Fortunately some of the other members brought it up.
If you read the source from where this was addressed carefully then it sounds pretty clear that the story will be a continuation of the story we already have, rather than being something completely 100% new with each expansion.
They talk about adding an in game summary people can read if they don't want to do the old MSQs so it seems likely that the story will be created the same, just with the added addition to read cliff notes.

(08-24-2015, 04:00 PM)Ashe Wrote: [ -> ]This whole thing annoys me. FF14 shouldn't be like WoW where people assume the story isn't everything...it's kind of ridiculous in my opinion. It's really obvious the ones complaining were the ones who joined super late and most likely left WoW for FF14. The whole "Marketing ploy" thing is total BS because content was always locked, even in 2.x, if you weren't at a certain point in the story. I play this game for the story and lore...I am an RPer and I am an FF fan who likes the game aspect of...this game >>
So yeah....When I saw this news, I was super disappointed. I liked that FF14 set itself apart with it's own rules and it made sense! I don't get why RPers are mad about not being able to skip past the story...wouldn't you want to know the lore that you learn through everything?

The difference is that they're not saying "now no one can play the story," they're just saying that "you don't have to play the story if you don't want to."

Those that still want to play the story can play the story. Those that don't want to, won't.

Player Choice makes video games better. There is no way that more Player Choice can make a game bad.

"Okay, this is going to be an easy fight. Remember how you had to watch the walls on Ravana? Well you just need to-"

"I never did Ravana, I'm new and FATE burned to level 70."

"Oh... Well, remember how you needed to kill the orbs during the Nidhogg f-"

"Nope!"

"...okay, have you done-"

"I haven't fought anything since Steps of Faith, please explain every mechanic to me without using any recycled mechanics as a reference, because there's no unified pool of experience now."

This has been Worst Case Scenario, brought to you by Strawman Productions.

Everyone having done the same stuff is helpful.

(08-25-2015, 12:45 PM)Oli! Wrote: [ -> ][...] There is no way that more Player Choice can make a game bad. [...]

And the players can chose NOT to fund a game who's designers don't cater to their every whim. Why is this such a hard concept to accept? If you hate gated content, go play a game without it.

I chose to stop giving Blizzard my money when they began bowing down to the player base demands. I will do the same when Square follows suit.

(08-27-2015, 10:12 PM)Warren Castille Wrote: [ -> ]"Okay, this is going to be an easy fight. Remember how you had to watch the walls on Ravana? Well you just need to-"

"I never did Ravana, I'm new and FATE burned to level 70."

"Oh... Well, remember how you needed to kill the orbs during the Nidhogg f-"

"Nope!"

"...okay, have you done-"

"I haven't fought anything since Steps of Faith, please explain every mechanic to me without using any recycled mechanics as a reference, because there's no unified pool of experience now."

This has been Worst Case Scenario, brought to you by Strawman Productions.

Everyone having done the same stuff is helpful.

"Have you done any of 3.0?"

"Nope I hate odd numbered patches. I skipped 1.0 also and hit 2.0 :3"

". . . . . What?"

I kinda have to agree with Warren on this. There are definitely uses for gated content and I'm a believer that you should have to play the game to, y'know, play the game. (Even though I myself really really hate trying to level my BAL alt up to 60 on multiple IC classes just for glamour usage and flying in heavensward zones.)

That said, just because future expansions may provide gated content, does not necessarily mean that they have to be gated behind previous expansions. 4.0 could provide a horizontal storyline to 3.0 stemming from 2.55 or another patch. FFXI is a great example: XI's first expansion Rise of the Zilart expanded upon the MSQ and extended the game past the Shadow Lord final boss and added Sky content that was accessible parallel to that storyline. Then, XI's second expansion went back and actually started at Lv25 with the Promyvions, creating an intricate different side story that spun off from the MSQ's and exponentially rose in level requirements the further into the questchain you delved. Something similar could just as easily be done in XIV.

(08-27-2015, 10:21 PM)Coatleque Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-25-2015, 12:45 PM)Oli! Wrote: [ -> ][...] There is no way that more Player Choice can make a game bad. [...]

And the players can chose NOT to fund a game who's designers don't cater to their every whim.  Why is this such a hard concept to accept?  If you hate gated content, go play a game without it.

I chose to stop giving Blizzard my money when they began bowing down to the player base demands.  I will do the same when Square follows suit.

We can choose not to, yes.

In this case, they're catering to what I want. I will therefore give them my money.

It's what they're doing. No one here on an individual level can change it, regardless of personal opinion on the matter. Personally, I'm happy with it. Some people might not be, but those people are, like you said yourself, able to not fund the game, and instead go buy something with gated content.

It's the way things are, I suppose.

(08-27-2015, 10:47 PM)Aaron Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-27-2015, 10:12 PM)Warren Castille Wrote: [ -> ]"Okay, this is going to be an easy fight. Remember how you had to watch the walls on Ravana? Well you just need to-"

"I never did Ravana, I'm new and FATE burned to level 70."

"Oh... Well, remember how you needed to kill the orbs during the Nidhogg f-"

"Nope!"

"...okay, have you done-"

"I haven't fought anything since Steps of Faith, please explain every mechanic to me without using any recycled mechanics as a reference, because there's no unified pool of experience now."

This has been Worst Case Scenario, brought to you by Strawman Productions.

Everyone having done the same stuff is helpful.

"Have you done any of 3.0?"

"Nope I hate odd numbered patches. I skipped 1.0 also and hit 2.0 :3"

". . . . . What?"

Or maybe they weren't interested in the content of HW and did not buy that expansion? Expansions are optional content, no one should expect everyone to have bought and played every single expansion. And I think this is another reason SE decided to not gate 4.0 behind 3.0 stuff.

Back when I started FFXI in 2006, I had only the base game and Treasures of Aht Urhgan, and no one really gave me a hard time for not having done ZM or CoP. It'd be very sad to see a trend like that arise.

(08-27-2015, 11:18 PM)Blue Wrote: [ -> ]Or maybe they weren't interested in the content of HW and did not buy that expansion? Expansions are optional content, no one should expect everyone to have bought and played every single expansion. And I think this is another reason SE decided to not gate 4.0 behind 3.0 stuff.

Back when I started FFXI in 2006, I had only the base game and Treasures of Aht Urhgan, and no one really gave me a hard time for not having done ZM or CoP. It'd be very sad to see a trend like that arise.

That would make it extremely hard to level for that span of levels, though.  Most MMOs do require you to have each expansion to go to the next one.

As a relative newb, I can tell you that I don't really mind going through the MSQ, other than the spots where there's only one or two quests for an entire level (or the current spot I'm in on V'alka, where there's just nothing for 47 and 48 at all). 

I do think they could improve it in two ways:

1. Provide free teleport passes as a non-optional quest reward for an MSQ if the MSQ requires you to travel to another zone. Part of the annoyance of the MSQ is the gil burn (or time sink) needed for the traveling.

2. Separate the MSQ into chapters, and make the initial quest of a chapter not require completion of the previous chapter (but do include a big red warning so the player knows they're about to complete MSQ content "out of order" if they prefer not to do so). This would mean someone who prefers to just level by other means could always "jump into" the MSQ at varying points, at their discretion.

(08-27-2015, 10:48 PM)Sounsyy Wrote: [ -> ]I kinda have to agree with Warren on this. There are definitely uses for gated content and I'm a believer that you should have to play the game to, y'know, play the game. (Even though I myself really really hate trying to level my BAL alt up to 60 on multiple IC classes just for glamour usage and flying in heavensward zones.)

If that's the case force every bit of content completion rather than just piecemeal it. Didn't do T13? Fuck off you don't get this expansion.

*goes to uninstall HW*

(08-28-2015, 12:29 AM)Kellach Woods Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-27-2015, 10:48 PM)Sounsyy Wrote: [ -> ]I kinda have to agree with Warren on this. There are definitely uses for gated content and I'm a believer that you should have to play the game to, y'know, play the game. (Even though I myself really really hate trying to level my BAL alt up to 60 on multiple IC classes just for glamour usage and flying in heavensward zones.)

If that's the case force every bit of content completion rather than just piecemeal it. Didn't do T13? Fuck off you don't get this expansion.

That's a pretty poor slippery slope. Turns are meant to be bonus content from the get-go, along with Alex Savage.

(08-28-2015, 12:31 AM)Flashhelix Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-28-2015, 12:29 AM)Kellach Woods Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-27-2015, 10:48 PM)Sounsyy Wrote: [ -> ]I kinda have to agree with Warren on this. There are definitely uses for gated content and I'm a believer that you should have to play the game to, y'know, play the game. (Even though I myself really really hate trying to level my BAL alt up to 60 on multiple IC classes just for glamour usage and flying in heavensward zones.)

If that's the case force every bit of content completion rather than just piecemeal it. Didn't do T13? Fuck off you don't get this expansion.

That's a pretty poor slippery slope. Turns are meant to be bonus content from the get-go, along with Alex Savage.

Hence why I don't get this whole "play the game to play the game" bullshit and why it hasn't been called out as a slippery slope as well?

Not as much of a slippery slope as you think btw - I was called out for not doing much of coil in an earlier dungeon.