Hydaelyn Role-Players

Something a lot of people don't seem to realize--in my opinion, RP doesn't always have to be meaningful or result in character development. I think a lot of people are hesitant or simply don't bother because of that reason.

Allister is mainly designed to facilitate roleplay in general, so I guess he'd be a Driver--so much so that he literally does not have a backstory. Unlike most, Allister isn't meant to be the 'main character' in roleplay. He's meant to add a dynamic to otherwise static roleplay encounters, even if it doesn't result in anything.

Something that really bore fruit was when Allister decided to start up a linkshell. Nothing special, just a way for his acquaintances to keep in touch. If he had a memorable encounter with someone, he'd hand them a pearl. It was just a simple method for characters to interact with each other, but it resulted in something extremely meaningful.

Even introverted people have their own ideas and their own plots, and the linkshell gave them a place to develop those ideas and make them real. Story arcs were literally creating themselves. I highly recommend people just start a casual IC linkshell for the hell of it and see where it takes them, because it can result in some really awesome memories.

*Coughs*

Hi. As probably the ultimate wallflower, I can say that it's really incredibly difficult to push off that wall. Here's how I see a scene before me in the Quicksand:

I walk in and see some folks at the railing. Some at the tables, and a huge group at the bar. Lots of text flying by on my chat window, which on the PS4 is just a gaggle of information. Shouts, and lots of emotes and say posts. It's already hard to keep up. Oh look! A couple of folks I recognize from the RPC site. They wouldn't want to talk to me. Probably not. I wonder why that person is alone at the table. Probably waiting for someone. Must be it. Wouldn't want to be a bother. There sure are a lot of folks at the bar...wonder what they are talking about. I'll watch for a few minutes. A couple of tells from folks and friends saying hello. Hmmm...I would love to say hi to that group...want to join..but there's so many....they won't like me. How could they? Melodia's no one to them....and what right does she have to just jump in and talk? She's no one special. I should go...yeah...I have to tend to the FC garden anyway...check on my retainers. House is safest. No one can reject me there.

 that's what happens in my head every single time.

(09-15-2015, 06:53 AM)Melodia Wrote: [ -> ]*Coughs*

Hi. As probably the ultimate wallflower, I can say that it's really incredibly difficult to push off that wall. Here's how I see a scene before me in the Quicksand:

I walk in and see some folks at the railing. Some at the tables, and a huge group at the bar. Lots of text flying by on my chat window, which on the PS4 is just a gaggle of information. Shouts, and lots of emotes and say posts. It's already hard to keep up. Oh look! A couple of folks I recognize from the RPC site. They wouldn't want to talk to me. Probably not. I wonder why that person is alone at the table. Probably waiting for someone. Must be it. Wouldn't want to be a bother. There sure are a lot of folks at the bar...wonder what they are talking about. I'll watch for a few minutes. A couple of tells from folks and friends saying hello. Hmmm...I would love to say hi to that group...want to join..but there's so many....they won't like me. How could they? Melodia's no one to them....and what right does she have to just jump in and talk? She's no one special. I should go...yeah...I have to tend to the FC garden anyway...check on my retainers. House is safest. No one can reject me there.

 that's what happens in my head every single time.

Sounds just like me in RL......

(09-15-2015, 06:53 AM)Melodia Wrote: [ -> ]*Coughs*

Hi. As probably the ultimate wallflower, I can say that it's really incredibly difficult to push off that wall. Here's how I see a scene before me in the Quicksand:

I walk in and see some folks at the railing. Some at the tables, and a huge group at the bar. Lots of text flying by on my chat window, which on the PS4 is just a gaggle of information. Shouts, and lots of emotes and say posts. It's already hard to keep up. Oh look! A couple of folks I recognize from the RPC site. They wouldn't want to talk to me. Probably not. I wonder why that person is alone at the table. Probably waiting for someone. Must be it. Wouldn't want to be a bother. There sure are a lot of folks at the bar...wonder what they are talking about. I'll watch for a few minutes. A couple of tells from folks and friends saying hello. Hmmm...I would love to say hi to that group...want to join..but there's so many....they won't like me. How could they? Melodia's no one to them....and what right does she have to just jump in and talk? She's no one special. I should go...yeah...I have to tend to the FC garden anyway...check on my retainers. House is safest. No one can reject me there.

 that's what happens in my head every single time.

*offers cookie*

A feeling I know too well. While I'm not quite as bad, I'll admit many of these exact thoughts have crossed my mind on more than a few occasions. Perhaps my biggest hurdle wearing the "wallflower" mantle is being overly critical. (I overthink everything. Even this post >.>)

I get bogged down on whether I'll bother someone or the RP might be boring if it were just a random bar scene. Sometimes, it can be especially hard to quiet those little voices. The fact I am still quite new to FFXIV and MMOs in general doesn't help, though the people I've come across here have left great first impressions. Nonetheless, that lack of knowledge does make me wary I won't be able to keep up.

Allister makes a good point, one I am guilt of myself. Not everyone RP needs to be some grand event nor a marked point of development. In fact, I daresay those are among the most nature if you can get passed the apprehension. Most interactions in RL amount to small talk, with everyone involved going their separate ways after. Problem is in the roleplay world that gets taken to mean something went amiss.

So as a partial wallflower myself, I suppose the best I can say is to take little baby steps, be it through RPC or in the actual game - whichever feels most comfortable. And get yourself out there. Of course, now I'll have to follow my own advice. ^^;

(09-15-2015, 06:53 AM)Melodia Wrote: [ -> ]*Coughs*

Hi. As probably the ultimate wallflower, I can say that it's really incredibly difficult to push off that wall. Here's how I see a scene before me in the Quicksand:

I walk in and see some folks at the railing. Some at the tables, and a huge group at the bar. Lots of text flying by on my chat window, which on the PS4 is just a gaggle of information. Shouts, and lots of emotes and say posts. It's already hard to keep up. Oh look! A couple of folks I recognize from the RPC site. They wouldn't want to talk to me. Probably not. I wonder why that person is alone at the table. Probably waiting for someone. Must be it. Wouldn't want to be a bother. There sure are a lot of folks at the bar...wonder what they are talking about. I'll watch for a few minutes. A couple of tells from folks and friends saying hello. Hmmm...I would love to say hi to that group...want to join..but there's so many....they won't like me. How could they? Melodia's no one to them....and what right does she have to just jump in and talk? She's no one special. I should go...yeah...I have to tend to the FC garden anyway...check on my retainers. House is safest. No one can reject me there.

 that's what happens in my head every single time.

As I said before, I'm this HUGE Roe sitting or standing around, If I see a conversation worth butting into or just see someone looking at me, I'll interact with them. So if you feel so inclined just kind of stand "nearish" and look at me if I see a head pointed my way I'll likely come up and ask if you need anything.

So I'm still trying to find out what is the purpose of the discussion. What is the problem that needs a solution as proposed in the opening post?

(09-14-2015, 02:42 PM)Leggerless Wrote: [ -> ]What are possible and probable solutions to reduce or even eliminate "wallflowering" among RPers?

(09-14-2015, 05:35 PM)Kage Wrote: [ -> ]I'll try to put my thoughts in an understandable manner.

First, why do wallflowers need to be eliminated? Is it to help the shy roleplayer who later talks about the lack of roleplay or is it to satisfy the roleplayer confident in their random / open RP but finds a lot of wallflowers that won't respond to them?

...
perhaps the one who wants to initiate just isn't interesting enough for the 'wallflower' to want to engage with.  Maybe the wallflower is content to watch and observe. That is perfectly all right but if they do complain that is on them. After all, an attempt to initiate RP -was- made.

(09-14-2015, 07:13 PM)MilanaMina Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-14-2015, 06:52 PM)Etienne Wrote: [ -> ]I don't understand the need to eliminate wallflowers.

Exactly, there's different types of people behind roleplayers. You have different types of people in the real world to compare to this as well: If you go to a big bar . . or restraunt. You're gonna see people bellying up to the bar and roaring out laughing, and you're gonna see quiet teasippers near the back reading a book while their order's underway. And so on.

Milana, if you ever see her in the quicksand, mostly keeps to herself, but she won't bite your head off if you come up and say "Hi." and depending on your character's personality it may go different ways! She may invite you to take a seat, share a drink. She may tell you to piss off . . it's about variety, and if you take away wallflowers that kinda kills the variety.

(09-14-2015, 11:49 PM)Mae Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-14-2015, 07:13 PM)MilanaMina Wrote: [ -> ]If you go to a big bar . . or restraunt. You're gonna see people bellying up to the bar and roaring out laughing, and you're gonna see quiet teasippers near the back reading a book while their order's underway.

This.

Now... I don't hang in the Quicksand often. On the rare occasions that I do (and typically on an alt), I'm shamelessly one of the wallflowers. Because for my characters, the Quicksand is to them how Facebook is to me -- I just go there to watch drama, listen to gossip, and I don't post anything.

So, if roleplayers are content to "wallflower" and do not complain about lack of roleplay, is there really a problem that necessitates a solution?

I've only been around for a short time on Balmung, as well as FF14, I'm surprised at how much RP happens. Thats a good thing.

My character Kiht'a is somewhat of an introverted character, however, sometimes I'll have him just walk around a bit, look at people, and one of his flaws is, that he is curious of people, but lacks the confidence to actually say hello to them or meet new people. He's only been in the wilds most of his life, as well as only around Miq'ote Keepers. Cities and new odd people are a bit of an anomaly to him.

Despite that, I do have him try initiating things. He'll muster up some courage, and nervously approach whomever. Most times I send a tell first because the chat gets very clogged. I've learned the hard way if I try to just walk up, sometimes the person wont see it.

I think even as a introverted character, RP can be initiated. Does the character have quirks? A clutz? Need to find something? I try to find any little thing I can grab to use for initiating RP.

But I will say, it was indeed intimidating OOC at first. So many people, and me not knowing much of the lore quite yet makes me a little nervous because I don't want to sound silly IC. I also understand those who have had negative reactions. But don't let it get to you. If someone gets offended by you simply asking to play with them, they aren't worth your time.

I do hope some wallflowers will come my way though! Kiht'a needs friends!

The content of this thread is what lead to Nathan's recurring joke that all of the courtesans and whores of Uldah, put together, do not get as much physical contact as the rail in the Quicksand.

This is going to sound like a series of trolling questions but I'm genuinely curious.

Is there like an actual point to this thread?

Does this thread actually propose solutions to the problems that have been discussed to death previously?

Did we actually address that, at least on the QS side, it's practically impossible to see chat properly unless you disable /say and only RP in /party which is counter-productive?

(09-15-2015, 12:15 PM)Kellach Woods Wrote: [ -> ]This is going to sound like a series of trolling questions but I'm genuinely curious.

Is there like an actual point to this thread?

Does this thread actually propose solutions to the problems that have been discussed to death previously?

Did we actually address that, at least on the QS side, it's practically impossible to see chat properly unless you disable /say and only RP in /party which is counter-productive?

1) People want to know either how they might stop being wallflowers, how to HELP people stop being wallflowers, or get tips on how to improve communal RP in high-profile public places.

2) New people come in who haven't seen stuff that's been "discussed to death." I see new threads pop up all the time discussing things we chatted near to oblivion months ago.

3) Some people handle the Chatwall better than others, and it's not ALWAYS crowded in there.

I try to think about what my character would do, given her situation and experiences. She is the one walking into the Quicksand, not me.  She is the one looking for her sisters.  I have NO problem finding mine, as there are four of them (seven brothers too!!)  I'd rather get away from them.  But Mia is looking for her sisters and is concerned they are being held as dancers, in a concubine, or possibly worse.  She has no real clues to go on so her only alternative is to go where people meet and see if she can stumble onto somebody who might know something.

So that's what she does, she goes up to wallflowers in particular, and asks them questions about stuff.  Grooming them for more and more information.  Sometimes she gets an f-off, sometimes she gets a solicitation for ERP, and sometimes someone just doesn't want to play along with that.  And that's fine.  Mia can talk about other things. The kidnapping thing is just a hook to get started.

If you were looking for someone, how worried would you be about being or not being a wallflower.  I guess it's a kind of method acting?  I'm not very social otherwise, but if I'm in a role, I can act like I am.

I'll second (Third? Fourth? Whatever) the stuff that Aya and the rest said about being proactive about seeking RP.

I understand where War Bear is coming from, too. If you have a character that simply won't approach strangers, then you're not going to have an easy time with it.

What I got in the habit of doing is sending people /tells. If I'm bored, I'll examine people who look like RPers, and send them a /tell if they look interesting: "Hi! I like the look of your character/search text. What sort of RP are you looking for?" Then, if they respond, you can start talking about RP, and how you might throw your characters together. This sort of OOC chat can be really valuable, because it eliminates the need to walk up to someone cold. For instance, you might play a pickpocket, and the person you're talking to plays a Brass Blade. You might decide that the Blade will try to apprehend your character for some crime they supposedly committed, or maybe your character tries to pickpocket the blade. Suddenly you're not walking up to someone cold. Instead, there's a framework for a RP scene.

This is a good way to help people who are new to the server get involved in RP, too. If you see a RPer with a sprout, talk to them. Invite them to come RP with you. Help them make connections with the people you RP with. It'll pay back dividends to the entire community.

I think the term "wallflower" is entirely too generalizing, and so no real solution can be presented without looking at an individual basis. 
Let's say there are a dozen characters who all have filled-out wiki bios and are have search parameters in-game which say they're IC and interested in RP. But who are they really?

1. Character Bill's player is very particular about post quality and descriptors, and so although he is there and theoretically available for walk-up RP, the reason his character is standing by the rail is because the player is observing to get a feel for who they might even want to interact with. Maybe it's nobody, due to their perception of poor quality. Presenting Bill with more "drivers" and "actors" won't stir him, because he's not looking to be drawn in by activity, he's looking for writing content (which said drivers and actors may or may not have to his satisfaction).

2. Character Jenny's player is waiting for another player who plays Jenny's current romantic interest to arrive in the game, and the Quicksand is where she's most often run into him before. He was supposed to be around yesterday but didn't show, and she's hoping he'll come by on this particular day - but in the meantime, she's also bumming out because of the no-show, and wondering if the romantic interest's player is one of those players who just bails on a story without saying anything. The combination of these circumstances make her not really that interested seeking out alternative RP right then.

3. Character Fred's player really only likes roleplaying with his friends in his Free Company. He considers himself open-minded to new approaches and RP, but in reality he isn't really. Even if he were, his RP with his existing friends takes up the bulk of his time and he doesn't really have room in his schedule to add more. So he parks his character in the Quicksand with good intentions, but ends up just sitting there while he chats OOCly with his existing friends in linkshells or tells.

4. Character Mary's player has recently accepted a promotion at her work, and so her hours have lengthened and become hectic with adapting to new duties and responsibilities. Although she's theoretically open to new RP, and places herself out in the open to get it, she doesn't really have the energy and the clarity of mind to engage anybody. 

5. Character Joe's player is in fact very open to walk-up RP... as long as it's a female character who doesn't have a boyfriend and appears to be interested in him, because Joe's happiness in RP hinges entirely upon his character getting into a relationship. Also, the walked-up female has to be similar to the player's interest in physical appearance, which means she has to be Hyur, Miqo'te, or Elezen, with fair skin and dark hair, because that's what he likes in real life.

6. Character Gina's player is really into deep, richly-written plots, one of which recently ended a week or so ago. She's taken to parking her character in the Quicksand in search of some inspiration for a new plot. Although she's definitely open to some new RP, she's also rather busy on her PC (she happens to play the game on a console) writing in her character's blog "journal" about the experiences she had on the plot, and so she isn't really paying very much attention to the game.

7. Character Frank is a friend of Gina's, and is currently also in the aftermath of the plot. Like Gina's player, he's open to new RP, but also not really paying attention. He's chatting with Gina's player via Skype while he draws in his sketchbook to immortalize the events of the plot, and to try and motivate himself to work on an art commission that isn't currently very inspiring to him.

8. Character Anne is a secret alt of a player who is normally very active in RP, but she's currently evading some drama in her FC by spending time on her alt that they don't know about. She's open to new RP, but she's also being cautious about who to engage with because she doesn't want to RP with someone she already knows on her main (and she knows a lot of people) because then she'd be lying directly to them by pretending to be a different player. Although she wants some privacy right now, she doesn't want to be a liar, so she's being careful about who she'll even RP with.

9. Character Brad's player is currently going through some hard times with his real-life girlfriend, and so although he's open to new RP, his time is punctuated by talks with his girlfriend when she's home, texts to her and his friends as he tries to cope with what's going on, and his heart just isn't really in the game - but he doesn't want to feel like he's quitting the game or something, and so he hangs around the Quicksand anyway with the vain hope that things will settle down for him enough that maybe he'll RP a little.

10. Character Lisa's player is new to the game and not quite ready to throw herself into the RP swimming pool until she's more comfortable with the lore. For the time being, she's content to just observe and watch. She's flagged in her search info for being available for RP, and would reply if interacted with, but she isn't personally posting without first being posted to.

11. Character George's player wrote that great wiki, but really just wants ERP. He looks like he isn't posting anything, but he's actually engaged in two different ERP scenes via tells, and has his character parked at the Quicksand to keep an eye out for other potential ERP partners that he might set something up with for a later time or another day.

12. Character Zoe's player also looks like she isn't posting anything, but she's actually engaged in RP with two other players who are standing on the rail - they're just doing their RP via party chat because the three of them have difficulty keeping up with chat scroll when it gets really busy in the Quicksand, but the Quicksand is the site where they want their scene to take place. Doing their RP in party chat enables them to easily progress their scene.

So, the point...

In all of the above dozen cases, the character might appear to be a "wallflower", but isn't. The player just has circumstances that an uninformed outsider can't possibly know, or, they're engaging in RP according to what they personally want. In none of these situations is the player shy, introverted, awkward, incapable of engaging, etc. 

In other words, assumptions are bad. If someone personally expresses that they feel like they're having trouble getting into RP, then the answer to that is simple - RP with them. Introduce them to your friends. Invite them to show up when you and your friends are doing RP. Lacking someone saying they want help, don't assume help is wanted or warranted.

Alright... now that I'm awake and not on my phone...

(09-14-2015, 02:42 PM)Leggerless Wrote: [ -> ]It's a Thursday afternoon, your usual RP partners aren't around, and you're itching for some quick RP so you head on down to the Quicksand. Walk on in, and what do you find? 20-30 people there, maybe more or less. A random and totally peer-reviewed study shows 90% of these RPers have some derivation of "Walk-ups welcome!" in their search info. With everyone wanting walk-ups, surely more RP would ensue.

That ideal scenario doesn't work here. Of the 90% mentioned earlier, a new study indicates 60%-70% of those "Walk-ups welcome!" crowd are simply meandering around on the railing, which leads us to the dreaded wallflower--the elephant in the room.

Was it studied how many of these people actually responded when someone walked up and initiated RP with them?

"Walk-ups welcome" sort of indicates, to me at least, that someone is open to RP if you go up and specifically engage them. If you don't actually walk up to them, they're content to sitting there and (likely) continue doing whatever else they were doing on the side -- maybe chatting with a FC/LS buddy, reading, watching a movie, working on a paper or whatever. Going into the Quicksand and just tossing out an /em enters, looks around, and then goes to sit at the table/bar isn't engaging anyone specifically.

A lot of good stuff has been said that I'd like to echo:

(09-15-2015, 06:40 AM)Allister Dedrick Wrote: [ -> ]Something a lot of people don't seem to realize--in my opinion, RP doesn't always have to be meaningful or result in character development.

This is an important thing to embrace if you want to find yourself getting more open RP. There may be times where your character will talk with someone new, have a good time, wish them a safe night and be on their way. When the whole Au Ra surge began, Eddard never actually spoke to any until he approached one at the Quicksand with the intent of asking what exactly she was. They spoke a bit, he learned a bit, payed her for her time via cup of tea, then went back to his papers at his table and that was that. It was still an enjoyable bit of RP that really didn't hold any weight other than Eddard being less of an idiot.

(09-15-2015, 10:04 AM)Shindoku90 Wrote: [ -> ]I think even as a introverted character, RP can be initiated. 

I read an RP article recently that said you shouldn't give the answer, "No, my character wouldn't do that," to minor things that could facilitate RP. It's too easy a dismissal/ Of course there will be many situations in RP where a thought that crosses your mind won't happen because your character wouldn't do it. I am not telling you to ignore your character's traits, but what if your character has reason to break habit? If your character wouldn't get X person's attention under normal circumstances, what circumstances would make him get his attention? Your character's armor is awfully beat and needs replacing and the armor that man is wearing looks excellently made. Maybe your character could ask theirs where they got the armour. Is that information enough to get your character initiating? Be creative with it!

If your character just really doesn't like approaching strangers at all, an option for introverted characters is to accidentally get someones attention. A popular one is to literally bump into people. I got an RP session out of simply making Eddard sneeze while waiting around for something (and I hadn't even sent that person a /tell or anything). There are times where RP will just need a tiny, wordless nudge to start. That being said, this is also important: 

(09-15-2015, 04:35 PM)Mae Wrote: [ -> ]Going into the Quicksand and just tossing out an /em enters, looks around, and then goes to sit at the table/bar isn't engaging anyone specifically.

I got lucky with the sneeze but it wasn't in the QS which made it possible. Your emote either has to be specifically geared towards someone (or perhaps an area) or at least a general action that would turn some heads. Eddard sits at his table, sipping a drink as his eyes scan the pages of a book with Alchemy For Dummies printed on its spine, is a little more likely to
yield something since someone may find alchemy enough reason to approach you but is still very general and could very easily get lost in the chat wall. Eddard walks through the tables as he reads a book titled Alchemy For Dummies, tripping and falling over the Au Ra's foot due to his textual distraction, is more likely to get some results, especially if I sent that Au Ra a /tell beforehand. His fall could even attract another person, if I'm lucky.

(09-14-2015, 06:52 PM)Etienne Wrote: [ -> ]I don't understand the need to eliminate wallflowers.

Different people have different preferences on how to approach this hobby. Some people like to go out and be the Driver while others like to be the Introvert and just observe until something pulls their character in. It becomes dangerous should the Introvert ratio become too overpowering though I don't think that's an enormous problem for this community. It's just a personal obstacle players are facing where they don't want to be a wallflower but lack of this skill or that confidence halts that. Being a wallflower isn't a problem until you see it as one and decide you no longer want to have that tendency. Albeit hard, this is a place to give advice on overcoming that.