Hydaelyn Role-Players

I've been blatantly schooled that this is a hoax!

However please note that [GM]Gm has seen usage in the past and...
The unfortunate proof that I had my Goblet Medium Plot Sale thread deleted when I made it on the official forums.

Honestly getting paid to leave a plot is not very different from selling wedding bangles. It's possible, it can be done, but Yoshida said to "please don't do it".

The way I see it, housing the way it is currently intended, is supposed to work in the way that you buy a plot, and when you no longer want it, you just relinquish it and leave it for anyone else to take it. You're not supposed to get gil back from relinquishing a plot, from the game or from other players. If SE wanted house owners to get money for relinquishing a plot, they would've already implemented a sell system or a refund system.

The lack thereof of said system is, to me, a sign that they don't want you to get gil for leaving a plot, and I think this is where the "violation" stands. Housing is a gil sink, and thus is not supposed to be a way to make profit off of it (example: claiming a small plot for 5M and then trying to make someone pay you 15M to leave it). Just like selling bangles, you are doing something that they did not want to be intended in the game, but that at the same time they cannot contrast because the mechanics allow it.

So again, it's more a case of "please don't do it".

Highly different. Wedding bangles are items bought with REAL money and then were being sold for gil because you can trade the items.

(09-22-2015, 05:54 PM)Kage Wrote: [ -> ]I've been blatantly schooled that this is a hoax!

However please note that [GM]Gm has seen usage in the past and...
The unfortunate proof that I had my Goblet Medium Plot Sale thread deleted when I made it on the official forums.

...so...it's NOT okay to advertise that you're selling land?  Or it is?  I'm so confused now.

(09-22-2015, 07:39 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-22-2015, 05:54 PM)Kage Wrote: [ -> ]I've been blatantly schooled that this is a hoax!

However please note that [GM]Gm has seen usage in the past and...
The unfortunate proof that I had my Goblet Medium Plot Sale thread deleted when I made it on the official forums.

...so...it's NOT okay to advertise that you're selling land?  Or it is?  I'm so confused now.

I think the GMs just don't wanna deal with any reports of scams or people complaining. So they just say "It is illegal, if you file a complaint we'll punish you both."

Then they look the other way.

Same with parsers.

Honestly, they should take a page from the real world.  You purchase a plot.  You pay taxes on the plots.  If you can't pay them, they get repossessed.  You're free to buy/sell plots as you see fit.

(09-22-2015, 11:14 PM)Wolfeheart Wrote: [ -> ]Honestly, they should take a page from the real world.  You purchase a plot.  You pay taxes on the plots.  If you can't pay them, they get repossessed.  You're free to buy/sell plots as you see fit.

Archeage actually does this system. If you can't pay your taxes, your land goes up for sale to other players.

(09-22-2015, 06:28 PM)Kage Wrote: [ -> ]Highly different. Wedding bangles are items bought with REAL money and then were being sold for gil because you can trade the items.

I'm not talking about the nature of the business, I'm talking about the approach that SE has towards it. It is the same ("We know you can do it, but please don't do it.")

Housing was not made with the idea that people would make other players pay them to leave claim of a limited content. Housing was intended as a gil sink, not a way to make gil, and that is why there isn't a feature to sell plots.

That people can "get money back" or "profit" from selling their plots is an unwritten rule decided by the (majority of) the community, and not from SE themselves. When they made the wards, they probably innocently thought that players who no longer wanted their house would simply relinquish the plot freely, without making others pay. Obviously this is not what is happening.

It would be as if I had the power to keep claim of all the karakuls in Coerthas at the same time. You want the skins, I'm not letting you have them. You can pay me to leave, or you can simply wait for me to leave. SE thought people would do the latter, but in fact, as it stands (due to the atrocious situation of housing on high pop. server), there are more people willing to pay for me to leave the sheep (house) than there are willing to wait for me to simply get tired of trying to sell it and leave the area (plot).

Now some might argue that, if the game had a built-in refund system, people would not force other players to pay them to leave a plot. But then comes again the fact that housing is an intended gil-sink. So no, there will never be a refund system from the game, and I honestly feel that circumvent this nature by taking the gil of other players is unethical, as well as unfair. If the game made you pay 6M for your house, I don't see why I should pay 21M for it instead, just because I came after you.

About that hoax thing, I posted the discussion on tumblr and some other people already met that GM.

To paraphrase George Carlin...

Selling is legal.
Housing is legal.
Why isn't selling housing legal?

(09-23-2015, 01:14 AM)Blue Wrote: [ -> ]Now some might argue that, if the game had a built-in refund system, people would not force other players to pay them to leave a plot. But then comes again the fact that housing is an intended gil-sink. So no, there will never be a refund system from the game, and I honestly feel that circumvent this nature by taking the gil of other players is unethical, as well as unfair. If the game made you pay 6M for your house, I don't see why I should pay 21M for it instead, just because I came after you.

Building a system based on the expected altruism of people on the internet is a system designed from the ground up to fail miserably. Since the dawn of digital interaction we've proved that if you give someone on the internet a chance to be a massive jerk, they will be a massive jerk nine times out of ten. Intention doesn't mean jack squat if you don't implement the means to enforce that intention. If SE is honestly surprised that people took advantage of a glaring loophole in the housing system, I would question just how based in reality Yoshi-P's housing team really is.

Personally, I would just lamp in on a sell, then swoop in and grab it before the other person. It's fair and square if I got it the legal way.

[edit] But I do not want to waste my gil on my own house. I'll buy a room inside of a house but I would never spend 5mil on something that transient

(09-24-2015, 04:41 PM)Ilwe Wrote: [ -> ]About that hoax thing, I posted the discussion on tumblr and some other people already met that GM.

I believe the point of the person who cry it might be a hoax is saying that if you color /echo to give a certain color, he already know the name of a GM, then someone can do
/echo [GM]Gm ____ >>
/echo >>[GM]Gm ____

I have not tried it out to see what happens.

I have lost my own thread on the official forums before though

Edit: 10/26/15: I thought it was blatant that it was most likely a hoax. Changing the color of /echo and doing something similar to what I wrote above does work. It will look like someone sending those PMs. This is why GMs will ask you for proof of /tells via World, Time, Timezone as they will look through the logs.

(09-24-2015, 04:53 PM)SessionZero Wrote: [ -> ]Since interaction began we've proved that if you give someone a chance to be a massive jerk, they will be a massive jerk nine times out of ten.

Small fix.

But yeah, i've been in the unfortunate position of having GM's investigate a transaction when a friend disbanded their FC house and then I gave them the gil to rebuy it personally. They assumed some real money transaction had happened and I imagine that is what they assumed here as well.

(09-24-2015, 04:53 PM)SessionZero Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-23-2015, 01:14 AM)Blue Wrote: [ -> ]Now some might argue that, if the game had a built-in refund system, people would not force other players to pay them to leave a plot. But then comes again the fact that housing is an intended gil-sink. So no, there will never be a refund system from the game, and I honestly feel that circumvent this nature by taking the gil of other players is unethical, as well as unfair. If the game made you pay 6M for your house, I don't see why I should pay 21M for it instead, just because I came after you.

Building a system based on the expected altruism of people on the internet is a system designed from the ground up to fail miserably. Since the dawn of digital interaction we've proved that if you give someone on the internet a chance to be a massive jerk, they will be a massive jerk nine times out of ten. Intention doesn't mean jack squat if you don't implement the means to enforce that intention. If SE is honestly surprised that people took advantage of a glaring loophole in the housing system, I would question just how based in reality Yoshi-P's housing team really is.

Right, and we have seen that in how they designed wedding bangles. SE allowed us to trade bangles with the idea that a player could buy a bangle and use it to surprise and propose the partner, and nothing more. And what came from that? People sell bangles, because the trading mechanic allows it. It's basically legal RMTing, as well as the rare dyes.

SE designed both housing and those items with innocent expectations, but it didn't go as they expected. And the fault again is that demand is higher than the offer, because housing servers are nowhere enough to meet the demand, and thus people take advantage of it by making others pay.

It may take some effort to find the will to relinquish a house for free, or the will to not own more than one plot on your account, but it can be done. I for one, not only don't sell my plot, bangles, dyes, nor own more than one house on my account. I even flat out boicot personal housing (for various reasons that range from: it's too small, too expensive, poorly designed, and I don't like the idea of a single player occupying a plot that could be used by a plurality of players such as a Free Company instead) by sticking just to our FC house (FC houses are much better anyway, with the rooms they are much bigger than any personal house will ever be, especially if you take the effort to grind alts to make them build more rooms in it!). All it takes is a bit of good heart.