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I am a retro gamer.  Not because it's a fad or because I'm a hipster, but because those were the games I loved growing up and I still like to play them.  This is fairly common as there are many like me.  And all the really good retro games are well documented on millions of top 10 or top 100 lists all across the internet.  Everyone, even kids who don't play retro games, have heard that games like Super Metroid and Super Mario Bros 3 are some of the best games made before 3D changed things.  

But there is one game that I played for hours and hours and hours over and over that I've never heard anyone mention in these lists.  Now this could very well just be me, but everyone I know who has managed to play this game also loves it.  It's a little arcade shooter made by Midway called:  Smash T.V.  

It's your father's twin stick shooter.  Not your grandfather's twin stick shooter, because that would be Robotron 2084.  No, Smash T.V. only had 2 arcade joysticks for each player as controls.  One made your character walk in whatever direction you pushed it, and the other made your character shoot in whatever direction you pushed that one.  My fellow classic oldschool arcade gamers will note this is the exact control setup for classic 80's twin stick shooter Robotron 2084.  


Smash T.V. has the most amazingly 90's set up ever.  With some inspiration from 80's action movies thrown in for more awesomeness.  

The concept is that the year is the distant future of 1999 where Smash T.V. has accurately predicted that mankind has become more violent than ever and loves reality TV.  You play a contestant on a game show called Smash T.V. where the object is that you are thrown into a long series of rooms full of traps, hazards, bombs, turrets, thugs, robots, tanks, and many other things that try to actually kill you while you run around avoiding death and shooting them with amazing gun power ups you pick up on the ground.  Not only are you supposed to slaughter hundreds of thugs and robots set on killing you, but you also need to pick up the amazing cash and prizes sitting out waiting for a lucky contestant willing to pick them up!  You can win things like a NEW VCR or even a MICROWAVE or a Smash T.V. board game!

Like any good gameshow, there is a wonderful game show host with personality to spare and 2 lovely show ladies hanging on his arms at all times.  He spouts very 90's catch phrases each time you see him.  Each room of the game has a clever name that are extremely dated 90's pop culture references.  For example, many many rooms have something to do with "turtles".  The boss fights are epic quarter munchers.  They are hard but exciting and a sight to behold.  The gameplay is very fast paced.  You never have a moment to rest, not even when you clear a room and have to move to the next, because if you take too long to move to the next room, invincible razor disc things start shooting out of the other doors that hunt you down.  The action is relentless and you'll just want to keep playing to see if you can make it to the next room.  Get one more free lawn mower, a few more thousands of dollars.  Or even see if you can collect enough keys to make it into the mythical Pleasure Dome.  

And what else?  This game was released years before Mortal Kombat and contains far more gallons of blood per minute than even Mortal Kombat X could hope to produce.  Granted, it's low res pixelated blood.  

I present to you a very long video of the entire arcade experience, just to give you further insight to this amazingly addictive game.  Prepare to witness a most excellent display of 90's explosions and carnage.


[youtube]PRHSi4hBHSM[/youtube]
Plenty of people talk about this game! It's the forefather of a ton of games today! Heck, Smash TV was one of the first of what is considered a 'rogue like'. Look at binding of isaac. Here's one list of twin stick shooters, most of these are great games too.

Here's another list of just top down shooters. Shows how the genre evolved into a sort of puzzle/skill related game with Hotline Miami and the like. The genre is well and alive, and I'm glad. Twin stick shooters are some of the most engaging and entertaining games there are. Heck, I've sat for two hours and played Geometry wars in one sitting.
The first game to be considered a Rogue-Like was Rogue. Smash TV and Binding of Isaac fall more into the twinstick-shooter genre that was mentioned. Rogue-likes require a totally different set of skills than reflex shooters of any variety do.

That aside, I fondly remember Smash TV. I also loved the Running Man movie, so I think they might be related.

Cash and prizes! I LOVE IT.
I'm still trying to understand exactly what a Rogue-like is, as I've only started to hear the term in the last few years. Apparently the genre encompasses a lot of older generation JRPGs that I really hated (but are super obscure) like Azure Dreams and Thousand Arms (has nothing to do with Wild ARMs) for PS1, and Time Stalkers for Dreamcast. Man, I hated all of those games.

But yes, Smash T.V. was one of the original twin stick shooters with Robotron coming before it, and Total Carnage coming right after it. I, too, have spent hours playing Geometry Wars. I love that game. And I've often wished someone would make a sequel to Smash T.V. When I was going to college for game design, I had plans on making a FPS shooter remake of the game myself, but that didn't pan out.

The nods to many classic 80's action movies is very obvious in Smash T.V. The Running Man is a clear inspiration for the storyline, and the game show host in the game uses many memorable quotes from movies like original Robocop. "I'd buy that for a dollar!"
Certainly not retro, but seeing as it's the first videogame I'v ever played, it's retro to me, but it was "Disney's The Jungle Book" back in 1994.

I was 7yrs old and after that game I was hooked on videogames, then my lttle gaming system broke down and it was one given to me so never touched videogames again till PS2 and Ace Combat 04.
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I played this game so much on Super NES in Middle school, friends would always come over and we'd have competitions to see which teams could get further.
(10-30-2015, 10:20 AM)Warren Castille Wrote: [ -> ]
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Er, It's rogue-like, not rogue-exactly like. Hence why I said smash was one of the first rogue-like.

Roguelikes are defined by a couple of characteristics. One, the levels are almost always randomly generated. Two There are upgrades or items that either carry when you die (or in extreme versions, lost entirely.). And Rpgue-likes are definitely not mutually exclusive to any genre.

They definitely do not require the same skill set. Other than maybe, critical thinking. They can be anything from platformers to turn based RPGs. As well as twitch shooters and twin stick shooters.



Here's a list of rogue-likes on steam. As you can see the Isaac series is among them.

Rogue Legacy is a personal favorite of mine, great platforming, gameplay and music.

FTL is another great Rogue-like. Space battles and all that.

Darkest Dungeon is a turn based, class Rogue like, very cool. Super unforgiving.

Last is Sunless sea. A super atmospheric game, very lovecraft-esque. And just as brutal as Darkest Dungeon.
(10-30-2015, 08:28 PM)Sinjo Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-30-2015, 10:20 AM)Warren Castille Wrote: [ -> ]
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Er, It's rogue-like, not rogue-exactly like. Hence why I said smash was one of the first rogue-like.

Roguelikes are defined by a couple of characteristics. One, the levels are almost always randomly generated. Two There are upgrades or items that either carry when you die (or in extreme versions, lost entirely.). And Rpgue-likes are definitely not mutually exclusive to any genre.

They definitely do not require the same skill set. Other than maybe, critical thinking. They can be anything from platformers to turn based RPGs. As well as twitch shooters and twin stick shooters.



Here's a list of rogue-likes on steam. As you can see the Isaac series is among them.

Rogue Legacy is a personal favorite of mine, great platforming, gameplay and music.

FTL is another great Rogue-like. Space battles and all that.

Darkest Dungeon is a turn based, class Rogue like, very cool. Super unforgiving.

Last is Sunless sea. A super atmospheric game, very lovecraft-esque. And just as brutal as Darkest Dungeon.

I blame TVtropes. By that logic, anything with a New Game Plus is a Rogue-Like.

The term exists to describe games that are specifically like Rogue, the game. I can't call Need for Speed an RC-Pro AM-like because they both involve cars. Rogue-lite (emphasis on LITE) refers to the less-hardcore variety of games that Rogue Legacy and Isaac fall into.

Edit: To further differentiate, you do not carry over data or items beyond your personal player knowledge in Rogue, Amgband, Nethack or the myriad other Rogue-likes that are based on Rogue. You have two features, really: Permadeath and random maps. They're played in a very specific way that is sort of its own genre because they don't share gameplay with anything else, hence the title. Rogue Legacy is equal parts legacy-data from your myriad deaths but it's also an action platformer. Isaac is as much a twinstick shooter as it is a gradual unlocking game. FTL is... Sort of unique as well, and is likely closer to the spirit than the other examples. I haven't played Darkest Dungeon but I believed it was closer to Wizardry (and could be wrong) and while I do quite enjoy Sunless Sea as well, it's still not exactly the same; It's a top-down shooter with excellent atmosphere and writing at the heart of it.

I realize I'm arguing semantics and derailing. Someone report me.
Smash TV misses a few key components for being a Rogue Like.

It's crushing difficulty isn't something that's surpassable with knowledge, experience, and luck. It's crushing and unsurpassable for the use for quarters.
The dungeon levels aren't fully randomly generated, they follow incredibly set rules and themes.  There's no unknown magical items or randomized item/equipment of any sort outside of basic game pickups.
And it doesn't have a form of permadeath or semi-permadeath.  You technically have infinite lives.

It's an arcade twin-stick shooter, and amazingly fun one with a hilarious theme, but that's it.

--

Darkest Dungeon and FTL are likely the closest to a pure rogue-like game in that there's randomized dungeon, zero reflex-skill gameplay, permadeath, a stamina-decay, and crushing difficultly.

DD does veer a bit because you keep a roster of folks, rather than a single playable character/party that needs survive the whole game. Also the art style is amazing.

--

On topic : I LOVED Smash TV and the glut of games back then that tried to emulate some sort of blood-sport TV show.

Does anyone remember this lovely fellow?

[attachment=585]
(10-30-2015, 08:34 PM)Warren Castille Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-30-2015, 08:28 PM)Sinjo Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-30-2015, 10:20 AM)Warren Castille Wrote: [ -> ]
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Er, It's rogue-like, not rogue-exactly like. Hence why I said smash was one of the first rogue-like.

Roguelikes are defined by a couple of characteristics. One, the levels are almost always randomly generated. Two There are upgrades or items that either carry when you die (or in extreme versions, lost entirely.). And Rpgue-likes are definitely not mutually exclusive to any genre.

They definitely do not require the same skill set. Other than maybe, critical thinking. They can be anything from platformers to turn based RPGs. As well as twitch shooters and twin stick shooters.



Here's a list of rogue-likes on steam. As you can see the Isaac series is among them.

Rogue Legacy is a personal favorite of mine, great platforming, gameplay and music.

FTL is another great Rogue-like. Space battles and all that.

Darkest Dungeon is a turn based, class Rogue like, very cool. Super unforgiving.

Last is Sunless sea. A super atmospheric game, very lovecraft-esque. And just as brutal as Darkest Dungeon.

I blame TVtropes. By that logic, anything with a New Game Plus is a Rogue-Like.

The term exists to describe games that are specifically like Rogue, the game. I can't call Need for Speed an RC-Pro AM-like because they both involve cars. Rogue-lite (emphasis on LITE) refers to the less-hardcore variety of games that Rogue Legacy and Isaac fall into.

Edit: To further differentiate, you do not carry over data or items beyond your personal player knowledge in Rogue, Amgband, Nethack or the myriad other Rogue-likes that are based on Rogue. You have two features, really: Permadeath and random maps. They're played in a very specific way that is sort of its own genre because they don't share gameplay with anything else, hence the title. Rogue Legacy is equal parts legacy-data from your myriad deaths but it's also an action platformer. Isaac is as much a twinstick shooter as it is a gradual unlocking game. FTL is... Sort of unique as well, and is likely closer to the spirit than the other examples. I haven't played Darkest Dungeon but I believed it was closer to Wizardry (and could be wrong) and while I do quite enjoy Sunless Sea as well, it's still not exactly the same; It's a top-down shooter with excellent atmosphere and writing at the heart of it.

I realize I'm arguing semantics and derailing. Someone report me.

It looks like you're grasping at straws man.  You're not really providing any reason these things aren't Rogue-likes, other than you don't think they are. The games are classified under those tags for a reason.

I'm not going to derail the topic, but you can't say your opinion is fact. The term represents more than games that are like rogue. In fact, grammatically. "Like rogue" and "rogue like" imply different things. E.g "This game is like rogue. it plays the same." and "This is rogue like, it's got aspects of rogue in it."
(10-30-2015, 09:13 PM)Sinjo Wrote: [ -> ]It looks like you're grasping at straws man.  You're not really providing any reason these things aren't Rogue-likes, other than you don't think they are. The games are classified under those tags for a reason.

I'm not going to derail the topic, but you can't say your opinion is fact. The term represents more than games that are like rogue. In fact, grammatically. "Like rogue" and "rogue like" imply different things. E.g "This game is like rogue. it plays the same." and "This is rogue like, it's got aspects of rogue in it."

It's not straws, it's just fighting back against the extremely casual term for games that have nothing to do with Rogue or it's successors besides some glossed over similarities.

The games play nothing like Rogue, ergo they are not like Rogue. "Crushing difficulty" with "permadeath" refers to lots of titles.
Double post because I am a fucking loser and it's a Friday night:

Check this out.

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Rogue-like games refer to games that play like Rogue, not games that share some features.
The arcade version of Smash T.V. does have a crushing difficulty that can really only be overcome with repeated lives and many quarters. The SNES version, which is the version that I played the most as a kid, is very similar but less punishing due to a few factors. While there are still probably 40-60 enemies on screen at the same time in the SNES version, the arcade version has many many more. The SNES version has 1 or 2 land mines in a room, the arcade version will have 4-5. The SNES version will have 2 of those shrapnel guy that walk around the perimeter of the room and explode. In the arcade version there doesn't seem to be a limit. There are a lot of other examples, especially when you get into the later levels. The 3rd studio is a lot harder in the arcade version than the SNES version.

One thing that I always used to get through the game in the SNES version was the secret prize rooms that would warp you right to the boss. I don't think these worked in the arcade version, and if they do, they aren't in the same places. In the bigger parts of stage 2 and 3, there are rooms that you will have to survive waves of enemies for upwards of 10 to 12 minutes at a time before you finally killed everyone and can move on. But as hard as the game is, I always always was having fun while playing it. Honestly, I think the SNES version had the balance of fun and challenging just perfect, while the arcade version, which was a lot louder, bloodier, looked better, was just too hard for the sake of drawing more quarters.
(11-02-2015, 11:33 AM)Manari Wrote: [ -> ]Honestly, I think the SNES version had the balance of fun and challenging just perfect, while the arcade version, which was a lot louder, bloodier, looked better, was just too hard for the sake of drawing more quarters.

It gets worse when you realize old arcade systems had user manuals that described how to make the most money off of an average user by adjusting the difficulty via dipswitches. The game could be brutally punishing if specific arcades wanted the money that badly off a popular game...or it could be adjusted to a level of difficulty more similar to the SNES title. It really depended on the arcade back in the day. These days if you find the game in "free play" arcades you might not find it quite as challenging since it's technically not there to eat your quarters.
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